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Posts posted by Will
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On 6/3/2016 at 10:26 PM, Datameister said:
I have no doubt it was for Han's death. It's too strongly melodramatic to belong anywhere else. You can even hear a bit of the preceding alternate music just before the saber ignition, too, as I recall - some of which was used in the film and FYC.
Interesting! I hadn't noticed that. I just went back and listened to the FYC (and thus film) version of "Torn Apart," and indeed we do hear a rather large chunk of the "dramatic Force theme" cue right before the saber ignition moment (not the Force theme itself, but the quieter stuff preceding it).
In case you find it interesting, on July 29, 2015, here's what Making Star Wars was reporting happened during the parade grounds/Starkiller firing sequence (http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happenings-at-kanatas-castle-part-1/):
Quote- Han Solo gives one more impassioned plea to Maz. She seems reluctant.
- We then cut to the First Order parade grounds on the snow planet where General Hux is giving a powerful speech to his Stormtroopers.
- Meanwhile in space near Maz’s planet, emissary Korr Sella is aboard a Resistance ship which travels towards Maz’s castle in name of General Organa.
- On the snow planet, as General Hux finishes his speech, the Stormtroopers all turn around (seen in the second teaser). We then see engineers pulling levers and pushing buttons as they ready their Starkiller weapon to fire. As it fires we see shots from above the ground as the weapon fires from beneath the surface, altering the terrain near the weapon in the process.
- The Stormtroopers at the rally all cheer in the fervor of the firing of their weapon’s might!
- Back at Maz’s place, Finn and Rey walk in the courtyard. They look up to see something terrible in the sky.
- On the ground level of the castle, Maz is telling Han she doesn’t know much about Leia (General Organa) these days.
- In space above the green planet, Korr Sella sees a flash of light. She knows it is over for her. Her ship meets its doom from the Starkiller’s blast. A Star Destroyer that came on the scene at about that moment comes into frame and we see the silhouette of the ship as the blast lights up the darkness of space.
- In space, Kylo Ren watches the blasts from his lander as he heads for Maz’s castle.
- General Organa and her staff react to the destruction of the emissary’s ship from the Resistance war room.
- Han Solo and Maz hear the commotion and exit the castle to the courtyard and see the weapon firing as they look on in horror (note these reaction shots are likely to be intercut with one another if the delayed reaction seems confusing).
- Maz ushers the heroes inside the castle and down a staircase. On the staircase she tells them who Luke Skywalker was and why he is important. They enter an underground chamber. Maz has them all hold hands.
So this may have been closer to what Williams was scoring originally. Just some food for thought when debating what scenes certain cues were intended for.
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On 6/3/2016 at 2:44 PM, Bilbo Skywalker said:
An intermission in a two hour film is an oddity!
Pretty sure all Film Concerts Live productions (Raiders is one of those) contain an intermission. Don't know about other live-to-projection concerts.
Also, I'll be going to see a performance of this by the Chicago Symphony in early July. It will be my second time seeing this type of concert, after Home Alone in December, which was terrific, although I was sitting in the very last row of the gallery (I got the tickets last minute). This time I'll be near the front of the gallery.
On 6/3/2016 at 10:50 AM, TownerFan said:Nice video from Boston Pops' Facebook page:
Thanks for posting, this is super interesting! When I went to see Home Alone live to picture in December in Chicago, I brought binoculars and would often focus in on the conductor (Richard Kaufman) and his screen. But I didn't always understand what I was seeing; this video really helped with that.
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16 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:Quote
E.T. originally died in that government test facility before test screenings convinced Steven Spielberg to go into reshoots and come out with the now-iconic ending.
I've never heard of it before.
Me neither, I was very surprised when I read that sentence of the article! I don't understand how that would have worked, though. Was the final chase shot entirely after test screenings? The chase is such a major and iconic scene, but I don't see how it could have been in the early cut if ET died in the house. Well, I like the way they decided to end it because it made for some great directing and scoring!
16 minutes ago, Nick Tatopoulos's Beret said:E.T. did have an atrocious alternate ending that was thankfully cut. In both cases, the closing minutes were saved!
What was the real alternate ending?
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Still no Chicago?
Potter 1 will be the most interesting of all the Williams live-to-projection concerts announced so far, IMO.
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By the way, Pablo Hidalgo, Lucasfilm Creative Executive, has hinted on Twitter that the reshoot direction came from Lucasfilm, and not higher up at Disney, and that things aren't as bad as some are making them seem. Don't have any specific tweets at the moment, though, sorry.
11 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:That really DOES sound like cameo overkill!
Well, MSW says they don't even know if any of those cameos will actually make it into the film! Some/all could have been just early ideas.
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4 hours ago, mstrox said:3 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:
Maybe in a not substantial way? Perhaps merely a cameo.
HIDDEN TEXT CONTAINS DETAILS ON POSSIBLE CHARACTER CAMEOS AND SOME OTHER PLOT SPOILERS (I THINK THEY'RE FAIRLY MINOR, BUT USE YOUR BEST JUDGEMENT WHEN DECIDING WHETHER TO READ)
SpoilerA March report from Making Star Wars (http://makingstarwars.net/2016/03/what-might-the-various-cameo-rumors-in-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-reveal-about-the-film/):
QuoteThere’s a lot of interesting rumors about Rogue One: A Star Wars Story in the cameo department. One of the things with Rogue One is that it has had a lot of writers and has had a lot of hands in the pot at this point. We don’t know what cameo they went with and what still needs to be filmed on that front. There’s a lot of assumption here based on the various cameo rumors that appear to have been pitches or in development, even while the cameras were rolling.
We have heard of a cameo moment that pretty much has Han Solo playing a BoShek type that simply refers the rebels to people to hire. There was a rumor that Jabba the Hutt brokered information to the rebels. That might explain the rumor that they wanted the young Han Solo role cast so he could have a cameo in Rogue One even though the Solo film will take place about eight years before Rogue One.
There was another rumor that most of the bounty hunters from The Empire Strikes Back appeared in the alternate to this sequence. That means Bossk, Dengar, 4-LOM, Zuckuss, and IG-88 along with a few bounty hunters from The Clone Wars. Boba Fett is also mentioned for this stuff and one description makes us think Cad Bane is included here.
A weirder rumor was that Yoda was part of the cameo segment on Dagobah itself. He doesn’t help them but sends them on their way.
Slash Film broke the story about the plot for Rogue One and when they did they stated: "The story follows a group of bounty hunters who were hired for the job."
My thinking at this point is all of the cameos rumored or pitched pertained to the hiring of those bounty hunters. It seems like Donnie Yen and Jiang Wen are the two bounty hunters the rebels eventually hire based on the visual clues pertaining to their costumes. I think if these cameos are interchangeable, it would seem the cameo role is meant to light the way for the hiring of the bounty hunter mercenaries that are going to help the rebels obtain the plans to the Death Star.
It will be interesting to see what cameo ends up in the film (if any of them)!
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"Main Title" from Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Jerry Goldsmith)
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Making Star Wars has been posting some details on the reshoots:
http://makingstarwars.net/2016/05/disney-execs-unhappy-with-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-so-far/
http://makingstarwars.net/2016/05/reshoots-will-not-affect-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-release-date/
http://makingstarwars.net/2016/06/how-extensive-will-the-rogue-one-reshoots-be/
http://makingstarwars.net/2016/06/scott-z-burns-wrote-a-draft-of-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story/
Some of this stuff is really interesting.
UPDATE:
SPOILER STATING THAT A CERTAIN CHARACTER WILL LIKELY APPEAR IN THE FILM INSIDE HIDDEN TEXT
SpoilerIn case you were wondering, Kroll is a Variety reporter, and Variety is a pretty trustworthy place for film news.
Seems like maybe the film was super dark and the powers-that-be thought some classic Han Solo comedy might be needed.
EDIT: Changed possible spoilers into hidden text. Not huge spoilers, but after posting I realized I'd better be cautious!
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On 6/1/2016 at 4:15 PM, E-Wan said:
BB-8's motif
Map motif
Isn't there just one theme representing both BB-8 and the map? If you believe there are two, can you give time stamps so I can listen to what you are referring to?
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37 minutes ago, Marcus said:
The cue you've shared seems to build towards Han & Kylo Ren's confrontation ("Ben!")
Fennel Ka ripped that music (and the yell of "Ben!") from a documentary (Secrets of the Force Awakens). That music does play over the Han's Death scene in the documentary, but we can't be sure that some/all of that music was intended for that scene in the film. The documentary editors could have just done some clever editing. It's being debated, as you may have seen, whether the building music is building to Han and Kylo's confrontation or building to the firing of Starkiller Base on the Hosnian system. We need the sheet music/recording sessions!
Quoteand the fantastic climax based on the Force theme is probably what was referenced in the reports of Williams asking the trombones to give him something "louder than anything Verdi's got".
You might be right! I remember that report got me so excited for this score. Naturally, it seems as if the cue teased may have been unreleased, at least until that documentary. There's debate about whether this Force theme climax was intended for the firing of the Starkiller on the Hosnian system, or whether it was to play over Ren killing Han.
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18 minutes ago, Marcus said:
Thanks for sharing!
The two four-note motifs are actually inversions of each other, although the one that begins with the descending minor second cleverly relates to Snoke as well.
The cue you've shared seems to build towards Han & Kylo Ren's confrontation ("Ben!"), and the fantastic climax based on the Force theme is probably what was referenced in the reports of Williams asking the trombones to give him something "louder than anything Verdi's got".
Woah, I thought they might be inversions but I wasn't sure, that's awesome!
Quotethe one that begins with the descending minor second cleverly relates to Snoke as well.
You're referring to the theme heard on horns over militaristic ostinato in the opening sequence when you say "the one," right? Because not only does that relate to Snoke, I think it might be his theme!
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17 hours ago, Manikin Skywalker said:
Interesting. I tried to put the music in the scene, but as we still don't know much about the recording sessions, I wasn't quite sure where to put each segment, so I had to do some guess-work.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4TAY1QZsUSYS1NGNjBRa3BkWjA
Nice work!
There's something I should point out: the music here ... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9NXlLWWQxRVQ0WGs/view ... may well be all one cue, but it could also be two cues (with the break between the two occurring when Han yells "Ben!") -- meaning that the music heard in that Drive file might not all be intended for the same scene, although it certainly could be.
There's another thing I forgot to mention in my initial post on the matter. The Drive file I linked to in the preceding paragraph of this post (the same file in my initial post) actually edits out some music in the portion from the beginning to Han's yell. The end of Hux's speech goes with no music in Manikin's music-to-picture attempt. But interestingly, if the missing music is restored (which Fennel Ka tried to do here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9MWZLV1p2anN0RVE/view), then the timing of the music lines up more or less exactly to the picture from the beginning of the scene until the end of Hux's speech. I've been imagining the dramatic building music stopping and then Hux yelling "Fire!" It really seems like it would work well.
In general, though, I kinda think the "building" music with the possible First Order theme doesn't work as well with the scene as silence, which is what we got in the final film. However, it's possible that back in early June the film was supposed to cut back and forth from Hux's speech to the First Order approaching Takodana to attack, in which case the building music would fit really well with the scene, I think.
7 hours ago, Datameister said:Not to mention its use as the X-wings are showing up near the base. As far as I'm concerned, that motif is most closely associated with the base.
You mean in "The Bombing Run" opening? Nice, I hadn't made that connection! Still, though, since the base is owned by the First Order, it's hard to be sure which Williams is trying to represent. I wonder what's on screen at that exact moment we hear the theme in that cue.
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16 hours ago, artguy360 said:
Nice detailed post but that particular article from Making Star Wars has literally no accurate information in it concerning music that appears in the score. I know there are alternates and new music and cut music etc, but Rey's Theme does not sound like Anakin's theme, there is no jazzy big band number, and there is no beautiful choral piece. MSW has gotten better over time but they have been wrong before and I think someone was fooling them with that article. Also, pretty much nothing leaked from the scoring sessions ever again after that except for some photos that were quickly taken down so I don't believe that particular report.
Rey's theme sounds enough like Anakin's for a source to describe it that way, IMO. And how do we know there's no jazzy big band number? Maybe it's unused and unheard thus far. In regards to the "beautiful sustained voice over melody" piece described, that could be an unused version of "The Starkiller," since MSW says it's tied to the snow planet.
8 hours ago, aviazn said:Interesting. I've been convinced that was a First Order theme for a while, but if the parade grounds is indeed the intended scene—is it not also possible that this is actually a motif for Starkiller Base itself?
That would make it an equivalent to the four-note Death Star motif. And its use at the end of the Jakku village sequence as the landing craft fly away from the backdrop of Jakku would be a direct mirror of the Death Star motif's first appearance as the star cruiser flies away from Tatooine at the end of the opening Imperial attack in ANH—in both cases, not corresponding to what's directly on screen, but signifying their eventual destination as the scene transitions.
You may actually be right. Here's what I had thought before you brought up that idea:
I thought there indeed was a Starkiller Base theme. But I didn't think it was the one used in the unknown cue possibly intended for the parade grounds sequence. Instead, I thought the Starkiller Base theme was the one heard several times in the third act as the heroes traverse the planet. One example is in the cue "Group Enters Base," where it is heard a few times:
However, I did just realize that one of the appearances of the four-note TFA theme being debated is in the cue "Precinct 47," near the beginning. That cue plays over the discussion in Resistance headquarters about how to attack Starkiller Base. (I don't know exactly what's on screen when the theme plays). Obviously, though, that usage of the theme could also indicate that it's the First Order theme because the First Order runs Starkiller Base, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the Starkiller Base theme.
What makes me still think the four-note theme in question is for the First Order in general is that it plays when Finn and Poe look up at the TIE fighter when they are about to enter it to escape.
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With the help of Fennel Ka, I think I have unlocked one of the mysteries of this score!!! I could barely contain my excitement when I realized this because it was something that had been bothering me for a while. Basically, the First Order has a theme -- but it's not the one that Marcus was calling their theme!
I'll explain this (it will get a little long but bear with me). Back last summer (early June), I read a Making Star Wars report (http://makingstarwars.net/2015/06/details-on-a-few-unique-tracks-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens-score/) that said the following:
QuoteMarches have been recorded but so far there is no “Imperial March,” but the “First Order March” is very much the “thing” they are recording. Just to elaborate, it is not really called the “First Order March” but the new march is for the First Order sequences in the film (and is not the classic theme associated with Darth Vader we know from the Original Trilogy). The sequence in question pertains to the “Parade Grounds” set where the First Order’s size and might is shown off and when their Star Destroyers approach the battle against the Resistance.
This was very early in the sessions -- in fact, I believe only one or two had occurred when this article was written. So keep in mind that it's certainly possible for the score to change a lot between then and the film's release. Also keep in mind that Making Star Wars has proven to be an extremely reliable source for Star Wars production news.
Now, when the TFA score was released, I wondered: What was this "First Order March"? We couldn't look to the Parade Grounds sequence (Hux's booming speech), because if there was ever music there, it didn't make it into the final film. And while there were multiple villain themes, none of them ever sounded like a march. For this reason and others I will mention later, I began to think this report wasn't accurate.
Then we started to hear unused music in documentaries. One particular bit ripped by Fennel Ka (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9NXlLWWQxRVQ0WGs/view?pref=2&pli=1) sounded like a march in the beginning portion. And that part contained a four-note musical idea heard other times in the score. I didn't make the connection then.
But in Fennel Ka's edit, he has the music from the beginning of the above Google Drive file to the moment it stops for Han to yell as the cue, "The Last Day of the Republic." And it suddenly clicked for me, as I realized that this music was almost certainly indented for that scene, the Parade Grounds scene. That four-note idea is the First Order theme. The cue "The Last Day of the Republic" would have played over the Parade Grounds sequence. As far as I know that's the only time it appears in march form, but it appears other times in other forms. The First Order theme can be heard at :20-:27 of "Preparing For Assault" (also known as "Precinct 47" or "The Plan") and :17-:20, :24-:27, and :50-:53 of the "BIG unknown Unused Cue/Alternate," (as posted in the Google Drive link above) as well as during the moment the First Order ships return to the Star Destroyer after the Attack on the Jakku Village (don't have the time stamp at the moment). It can also be heard when Finn and Poe are about to enter the TIE fighter to escape the Star Destroyer (that's a more subtle performance, I can give time stamp tomorrow if you want).
The theme Marcus spotted that he thought was the First Order theme (heard on horns over string ostinato as transports zoom toward screen in opening sequence) is probably actually Snoke's theme, which makes sense given that the majority of its appearances are in Snoke's scenes, I believe.
With what I have discovered to be the actual First Order theme, it's possible it was in the film more early on and that's why MSW said it was the "thing" being recorded. Maybe they thought it was better to make Ren's primary theme the centerpiece villain theme.
Also, many had discounted the MSW's report because of the apparent absence in the score of much of what it described, but I think what I figured out makes it possible that some of the other things described are just in alternates we haven't heard yet (like the jazzy big band piece and operatic cantilena).
I may have forgotten something because it's late and I'm tired, if you have any questions please ask.
- JacksonElmore, Marcus and Jay
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Well, I have started my complete score analysis. I hope to be done by early July, but we'll see. It's a massive project; who knows if I'll even finish, if I don't I'll just post what I have. But I'll try! Don't expect any groundbreaking revelations about the score; a lot of what I'm doing is compiling others' observations. My goal is for people new to the TFA score to have one definitive place to read about it rather than having to comb through various threads on the forums.
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Now, this isn't necessarily what I'd call plagiarism -- but there's a definite similarity between passages of these two Williams cues. I don't mean this in a negative way at all -- both are fantastic, A+ pieces of music. I see similarities such as these as fascinating, displaying how Williams develops as a composer over time, expands on previous ideas, etc.
^Hammond's Proposition: 0:26-0:47
Diagon Alley: Beginning-0:13 (not the OST version; the recording sessions version)(you can find this on YouTube, but it's from leaked recording sessions so I deleted the embed -- I thought maybe posting a link to leaked stuff wasn't a good idea)
Pretty cool how you can hear the beginning few notes of Hedwig's Theme in Jurassic Park! And I don't think this is the only Williams theme that has been fully or partially included in some previous score, and then accidentally becomes an actual theme in a later score -- the "call" of Rey's theme was in ROTS, I think, and there are probably more examples.
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Well, we now have confirmation from a reliable source about the re-shoots:
http://deadline.com/2016/05/star-wars-rogue-one-re-shoots-no-test-screening-release-date-1201765101/
QuoteRogue One: A Star Wars Story, directed by Gareth Edwards, will definitely be undergoing re-shoots just as Star Wars: The Force Awakens did before it was released as well as Paramount’s next installment of Star Trek.
Quoteto clarify, there were no test screenings and rather a re-shoot decision was made after Disney suits and producers watched the initial cut of the highly anticipated film.
QuoteAccording to sources, the first cut was lacking the edge that Force Awakens had and the story needs to jell. The film’s release date (December 16) will not be impacted, according to one insider (and with Comic-Con fast approaching hopefully the studio may be able to tease their fans with at least a little something).
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I think the score may wind up being my favorite of the three--some cool space music, more interesting action music, and at least one great emotional moment.
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9 hours ago, crumbs said:
Clickbait or is the film in trouble?
Disney execs in a panic over upcoming Star Wars film.
http://pagesix.com/2016/05/30/disney-execs-in-a-panic-over-upcoming-star-wars-film/
Oh goodness. Hard to know whether this is true, though. Weren't there rumors that this film already had a writer come in to "fix" the script because LFL didn't think it was good enough? -
Wow, this is terrific! Too bad the other two movements of his football suite are only available to listen to in their band recordings (not full orchestra).
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11 hours ago, Gistech said:
It wasn't used, though.
Yep, that's what I figured out recently. See my above post, which I have quoted here:
On 5/28/2016 at 6:15 PM, Bill said:Well, I watched the relevant part of the STID opening just now, and here's the interesting thing: the Courage theme is heard both on the OST and deluxe edition in the track "Sub Prime Directive," which contains part of the score for the opening sequence. Listen here:
But that theme is NOT heard in the final film. At 7:48 in the following video, we should hear it if the final film's score exactly matched that of the album. But we don't. There is silence until 8:03, where music begins again, although for a few seconds this music is NOT exactly the same as the music heard on the album right after the Courage theme statement (meaning that something more than a simple dialing-out of the Courage theme is going on here). Then they become identical until the end of the opening sequence (when the words "Star Trek Into Darkness" appear).
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2 hours ago, Stefancos said:
DM?
What is this? What aren't we being told?
It's nothing to concern yourself with. I promise you it has absolutely nothing to do with Bloodboal; it's unrelated.
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4 minutes ago, Jay said:
Huh? What do I supposedly know?
Jason, this is totally unrelated to this thread, but did you get my DM?
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19 hours ago, untouchables said:
Does anyone know if the the track of Star Trek tv theme performed by John Williams and the Boston Pops Orchestra is arranged by Alexander Courage or John Williams?
Funny, I was just wondering this myself!
Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (JJ Abrams 2015)
in General Discussion
Posted
I'm thinking that perhaps the opening scene music we heard in the 60 Minutes clip was written for an opening with Luke's hand, which I think would be followed by the village attack scene in that version of the film.