It's so interesting to revisit this thread, and to see folks' opinion on Attack of the Clones when it was still fresh. Have any of your opinions changed on 3M3 "The First Kiss"? @King Mark?
For musical reference, the musical cue in question: (I know the thread is about scoring, not music on its own... but seriously, I don't want anyone to be subjected to the to the actual scene in question, which remains as cringe-worthy as it was in 2002...)
I think JW's just trended towards much more restrained scoring since the completion of the Star Wars prequels. ROTS was really his last "big" score; he never recaptured that level of operatic, musical gradeur in the scores that followed (with some fleeting exceptions in the Star Wars sequels, like The Spark or the celebration portion of Farewell).
Not sure if that's a reflection of his evolving writing style or just the films he's scored (the likes of Munich, Lincoln & The Post clearly call for restraint) but there's still a marked difference between, say, KOCS and TLC, or TFA and TPM, or Amistad and The Post.
I personally thought the OST was a bit "wall of sound" / "in your face"; It was hard to hear individual instruments at times, especially when the loud drums were playing. If the new mix allows us to hear the individual instruments better, that's an upgrade in my book!
Yeah I'm not sure if Powell will ever explicitly state which tracks feature JW's cues. JP said the Williams cues were converted to demos then used as fragments all over the score (because the edit changed drastically after JW recorded them, they no longer fit as intended).
I tend to get way overly anxious about things -- I'm certainly not a YOLO kind of person, let's put it that way -- and, Jesus, has this giant price been rough on my mind. $70 with shipping.
In particular, I'm feeling like I'm headed down a dark path financially. I've never really wanted material things throughout my life. Essentially, I've never spent any of the money I've collected over the years, preferring to save it. Until today.
I'll get plenty of listens out of this set, there's no question. And it's good to treat yourself every once in a while.
But I feel like I'm headed down the specialty label soundtrack-collecting path, a very costly one. $30 here, $25 there... It adds up. For the first time in my life, I really have that "got to get it" feeling with material things, perhaps engendered by the "I want to listen to every Williams score in complete form eventually" idea. And, I reason, if I don't buy specialty label releases, they will sell out and I will have to pirate them eventually when I want to hear them since I'll want to hear all Williams scores, therefore I should buy them now.
Perhaps I need to step back and control my materialistic and "completist" urge (not to own a CD of every score, but to experience every one in complete form). Do I really WANT this stuff, or is it just my completist urge?
Or perhaps I'm being too hard on myself. And, of course, it's possible that many important expansions will happen in the next few years, meaning that I won't really have to worry about spending money on soundtracks as an adult.
I feel like this score doesn't get enough love. Hopefully it will be re-evaluated once Mike has the chance to expand it; the OST leaves a lot to be desired (and is vastly incomplete). With only a handful of non-Disney, pre-2005 Spielberg/Williams scores left, I'm hopeful they can tackle it soon.
This cue is one of many unreleased highlights, especially if you enjoy Williams' Americana style. That brilliant warm brass and flute writing is sublime.
Williams did write a full end credits suite for the film. The first half is "Opening End Credit", released on the OST as "Abandoned In The Woods", and the second half is "Vocal End Credit", released as "Where Dreams Are Born"
In fact, a slightly absurd situation occurred, and it so happened that I, together with @crumbs, began to do this. Perhaps when crumbs completes the work, I will leave only the "Bonus" section, and delete the main post. We'll see.
In fact, quite a few fragments of the film have already been restored on the forum (@crumbs , @Skelly). But I was interested in trying to do it myself, and already with the whole soundtrack.
As you know, in the film, many cues were heavily edited - mainly for scenes with a lot of VFX. Still, it was fun to try.
Note: I inserted music in its pure form, without an "speech track", since I am not good at extracting audio from 5.1/7.1, and, in principle, I also like this method more.
01 - The Prologue
Traditionally, the film begins with Hedwig's theme that is played here almost in classic form. As expected, fits.
02 - Aunt Marge's Waltz and The Parents Portrait
But already in the second cue oddities begin. In the film, the cue begins only when the aunt's finger swells, and it sounds in a shortened form. It's also known that a new intro was composed for the waltz, and, interestingly, if put the cue in this form, it turns out that the intro ends just at the moment with the Marge's finger. Most likely, the sequence with transformation of aunt Marge was not edited in some way, but before that moment something could have been cut. Anyway, I didn't bother to insert black screens, although this is hardly-hardly correct. And yes, I had to ignore the mini-cue "Aunt Marge Point the Finger", since there is nowhere to insert it (maybe it was composed after the decision was made that this cue would be shortened? hmm). The Parent's Portrait fits.
03 - The Empty Playground and The Knight Bus (intro)
The Empty Playground almost fits, except for the last two bursts. Next cue "The Knight Bus" (sequel to the Marge's Waltz, heh) also fits, but the ending with the celesta was dialed out in the movie.
04 - The Knight Bus Ride
I expected that I would have to insert a lot of black screens here, but in fact only one fragment was cut out here. There are some extra shots in the "deleted scenes" on DVD, but I decided not to insert them, since not all of them are completed in VFX. There are a few small edits, but amuse the moment with the narrowing of the bus. Perhaps initially this process should have been slower, so the music turned out to be longer. I inserted both versions of this fragment (first the second (sounds in the movie), then the first).
05 - The Monster Book
Just one slight edit.
06 - Discussing Black
Fits, but in the movie, this cue was shortened and mixed with the SHAWM (that's the source cue, so I didn't include it).
07 - The Train to Hogwarts
I again inserted two versions known to us (the first sounds in the film).
08 - Apparition on the Train
Lots of microedits. The ending of cue in the film was cut and replaced with a chorus, and I think that the cue should have ended right after the camera shot into Harry's eye, but Skelly thinks that the music ends when Harry regains consciousness (if so, then it means that the film was not cut at this point).
09 - Double Trouble
Double Trouble with intro and in shortened form. Fits.
10 - The Dumbledore's Warning and Double Trouble March
The Warning fits, but the ending has been tracked over in the film. March: It is repeated twice on the recording, but in the film it sounds only once.
11 - Rainy Nights, Dementors and Birds
First half: microedit. Second half: fits with the inserted deleted shot with Hagrid.
12 - The Grim and The Hippogriff Lesson
The Grim: fits, but I used an alternate version with a solo viola. Double Trouble on Hills: the first half was dialed out in the film, two black screens I had to be inserted.
13 - Befriending the Hippogriff and Buckbeak's Flight
Befriending the Hippogriff: the second half is cut out in the film (with a short "enlightenment"), but despite this, everything fits. However, the ending (marked "optional" in the score) is not used in the film and was intended for the original start of the next cue, so I didn't use it either (see Bonus section).
Buckbeak's Flight: the opening with the "runway" is greatly shortened, then I had to insert a couple more black screens.
14 - Bonding with Hippogriff, Sir Cadogan Again (not) and The Newspaper
Bonding with Hippogriff: dialed out in the movie. It's hard to figure out exactly how it was supposed to be used, but I figured it out as a smooth transition to the next cue.
Next cue: *exists* It is difficult to say for which scene this particular version of the cue was originally written, but nevertheless it sounds here. I took the version from the movie - with percussion and slow tempo.
The Newspaper: fits.
15 - The Boggarts
Snape Dresses Up: the first half of the second version and the second of the first version sound in the film (and I agree with this decision). I inserted the second version here.
The Spider: fits.
The Snake and Clown Out the Cupboard: I've inserted the second version here, microedits. The ending (balloon) was cut, in this place source cue is sounding.
The Boggarts - Alternates
It would be unfair to ignore the alternatives. Here is the first version of Snape Dresses Up and the first version of Clown Out. As for me, this version (Clown Out) is deeper and more interesting, as it essentially reproduces Harry's flashback from the train, quoting music from this scene.
16 - On the Bridge and Remembering Mother
Everything fits here.
17 - The Portrait Gallery
The beginning of the cue in the film is greatly shortened. But if the cue starts with a shot where an empty portrait is shown in first time, then it fits. The ending was also cut out and it seems to be irrelevant for the final editing - I still did not understand what should have been instead of the shots with the large doors closing, so I inserted a black screen, sorry.
18 - The Big Doors and The Great Hall Ceiling
The Big Doors fits. The ending of The Great Hall Ceiling (Hedwig's theme) is dialed out in the film, perhaps the final shot with the Whomping Willow should have been longer.
19 - Sir Cadogan
The scene was completely cut from the film, but the music seems to fit (in this version of the cue).
20 - Page 394 and Quidditch 2004
Page 394 used in place of the original intro, fits.
Qudditch 2004: absolute chaos. It looks like the editing of the scene has changed dramatically since Williams wrote the score. From the sync point, I found only a lightning strike to Cedric and an umbrella flying past Harry in the second half of the scene. I had to remove some of the dementors footage because it goes against the logic.
21 - Woods Walk, Bird's Flight, Map to Snow Scene
The first cue is all right here. Interestingly, in the film, the Hedwig's theme sounds slower and at the same time the first couple of measures with the harpsichord are dialed out. Interestingly, these bars are missing in the handwritten score, but I inserted the LLL-version anyway.
Map to Snow Scene: after the shot with the Marauder's Map, a certain wide shot should have followed, but it was cut out and the cue became irrelevant.
22 - Up the Stairs
A short cue that replaced Map to Snow. In the film, it's tracked in second time before the Snowball Fight.
23 - Snowball's Fight
Microediting. It is not entirely clear why there is a pause in the middle of the cue. It looks weird in the movie, I made the second part of the cue start when Draco pushes Goyle. The ending is dialed out from the movie.
24 - The Three Broomsticks and Brief Snow Scene
First cue dialed out from the movie. I also think this scene looks better without music. If you try to put this cue in the film, then it starts playing quite late, as for me. Maybe there was something cut in the LLL-release, hmm. Brief Snow Scene: some Hogsmeade footage appears to have been cut here. The ending, which is a smooth transition to the next scene, is cut from the film - I think there should have been wide shot(s) for the office before Lupin speaks.
25 - Summoning the Patronus [Four cues]
Fortunately, everything fits, with the exception of the contrabassoon solo from the second cue, which was cut in the film.
26 - The Buckbeak's Fate, The Marauders Map and Reveal Your Secret
The Buckbeak's Fate: judging by the blooper with Harry on the bench, there should have been more shots of Hogwarts or something like that. The music in the film is shortened.
The Marauders Map: in the film, the scene seems to be greatly shortened (almost in half), the "quiet" part with the strings solo is cut out... Microediting
Reveal Your Secret: cut entirely from the movie, but fits.
27 - The Mention of Pettigrew and The Crystal Ball
The fragment with the celesta from the first cue in the film is shortened. In The Crystal Ball, the middle section is completely cut out in the film (interestingly, the big pause at this mark is indicated in the score). Then there are a couple of micro-edits.
28 - The Executioner
29 - The Walk to Buckbeak
30 - The Sentence, Chasing the Scabbers and The Whomping Willow
The Sentence: Either Hagrid's dialogue with Harry had to be longer, or the cue had to start earlier. I think the first opinion is more likely. I also had to insert an obvious black screen when the main trio teleports a few meters ahead.
Chasing the Scabbers: The first half, surprisingly, fits. But the second is shortened.
The Whomping Willow: Mess. As with the Quidditch scene, the editing has changed a lot here, but the sync points can still be found.
31 - The Confrontation Scene [Two cues]
These cues are heavily edited in the film. Some fragments are dialed out or tracked over, some are looped. However, there was almost no need to insert black screens (except for Lupin entrance). In other cases, the frames had to be cut on the contrary (I cut out some shots with the reactions of the trio, there is also something wrong with Snape's lines). The rat runaway sequence has been edited: the dissonant music in the film starts when Sirius dropping the Scabber and the previous piece is looped. The last part in the film is completely tracked over (The Marauders Map), but fits.
32 - Sirius and Harry
Almost matches (only the end is slightly shortened).
33 - The Werewolf Scene and The Dementor Converge
The Werewolf Scene: The first two-thirds are a very sad mess. Almost all sync points are perfectly detectable, but quite a lot of video material was cut. Then it gets better.
The Dementor Converge: I decided to insert the The Dementor Circle instead of the one voice that is in the movie. The original (second) action-part [5:13-5:44] in the movie sounds slower, but I used the LLL-version and shortened the footage. Also microediting.
34 - Time Past and Saving Buckbeak [3-4 cues]
At the beginning, the music is slightly out of sync, but at the same time nothing is cut out in the film in this moment, it's strange. At the ending of second cue [5:00], very strange things also begin - it's not entirely clear with what the transition between the cues should be synchronized. It can also be noted that the moment of "execution" is clearly shortened. I used the old ending from LLL-release/Official OST (see Bonus section for other endings).
35 - Lupin's Transformation (My Dad Conjured the Patronus)
Here I used the version without the WttP layer, since the other doesn't sound very good. Here I only had to insert two black screens. Also I inserted both versions of the last section.
36 - Buckbeak Saves the Day and Watching the Past
Oddly enough, everything is already synchronized here. At 1:32-1:36, I even had to shorten the frames. For fun, I inserted the original version of the second half at the end of the video, and much to my surprise, it syncs super perfectly.
37 - Rescue of Sirius, Sirius Says Goodbye, Turning TIme Back and Whomping Willow Revisited
Rescue of Sirius starts a couple of seconds late in the movie, so it's a little shortened (in the movie).
Sirius Says Goodbye: something seems to have been cut out here, but it is not clear what. The sudden transition to the next cue is embarrassing, maybe something was cut out here too...
Whomping Willow Revisited: ok.
38 - Lupin's Departure and The Firebolt
Lupin's Departure: shortened in the film. Between these cues in the movie inserted part of Sir Cadogan.
The Firebolt: as expected, and fortunately, fits (except for the credits opening).
Bonus - Experiments with mockups...
Sounds awful, but why not. Quite a few alternative versions of parts have accumulated in the score, which have not reached us in the form of orchestral recordings. I decided to try and sync the most interesting ones.
Quite a few alternative versions of parts have accumulated here, which have not reached us in the form of orchestral recordings. I decided to try and sync the most interesting ones.
[3MC-3MCA] Old transition between Befriending the Hippogriff and Buckbeak's Flight
This is where the "optional" cue ending comes in handy. There are not enough frames for it, but we got a smooth transition to the next cue.
[3ME] Old ending of The Great Hall Ceiling
There are few differences from the final version, the most interesting thing here is the ending. I used to think that Dumbledore's dialogue with Snape was supposed to be longer, but it looks like the "lullaby" continues in the shots with the Whomping Willow - see how the falling leaf synchronizes with the "falling" trills of the strings. And only then the Hedwig's theme sounds. Interesting...
[4M3+4] Enter Winter (Woods Walk and Bird's Flight) - Earliest version
This version of the cue obviously starts later, leaving Lupin's dialogue with Harry without music. Also, apparently, the shot with the flying owl should have been shorter, otherwise the footage will not sync. (The later version of the cue has a Hedwig's theme at this moment)
[4M14] Dueling the Dementor - 1st version
Apparently, there should have been more Patronus shots here. A scene with this kind of music feels very different. Then the old alternative version of WttP is played.
[4M14 Insert] Dueling the Dementor - 2nd version
The music sounds lighter, a female choir is added, but there is still no WttP theme. Perhaps it was on this stage that Cuaron and Williams tried to find the "true" sound of the Patronus... By the way, this version is already shorter than the previous one.
[6M5 pt 2] The Dementor Converge - Original version
Perhaps the most interesting mockup. Here it is interesting to see how much the dramaturgy (uh) of this scene has changed. It is noteworthy that the moment with Harry's attempts to summon the Patronus is cut. Also interesting is the moment with the successful patronus at the end - musically it feels like a kind of vision through a dream (in the score the maximum dynamics is mezzopiano), but we only have a recording of a newer insert, where the sound is louder and clearer. The ending is shorter, I had to delete one frame with Harry.
[7M1A-B] Endings of Saving Buckbeak
Just different versions of cue 7M2 endings. A kind of evolution - from darkness to light.
[7M3] Old opening of Buckbeak Saves the Day
Small mockup, but still. This version of the cue begins as soon as a werewolf appears in the shot. The music sounds epic right away. In the final version, low strings tremolo sounds here.
[7M9] Lupin's Departure - Original version
It's funny how JW decided to scored the closure of the Marauder's map. In addition, in the final version of the cue, the cellos and solo oboe parts were reversed, and a major chord was added at the end.
[7M11-7M12] The Firebolt - Original version
And now the end of the movie. Two major differences: the moment where Harry trolls the students was cut out, as well as the instant transition to credits.
Any Star Wars (or any other for that matter) music by JW you wish he had done differently? For me, I wished the final seconds of TROS would have wrapped up more themes since that is the final seconds we'll ever get of original Star Wars music. Just felt like a missed opportunity to me that it was a straight repeat of the Star Wars suite's original end rather than a culmination.
Something like this:
This uses the main Luke theme introduced to us back in '77 the first time we heard any Star Wars music during the opening crawl. Also, this time rather than ending the theme on the D, it descends an octave to G making it a more final statement than what was heard throughout all the films plus I also put in some of those ESB sixteenth notes that JW did a lot more of back in the late 70's. I also tried throwing in either the Force theme or Imperial march motif as a counterpoint but since those are very much in minor key, it clashed horribly with the euphoric G major ending, but I liked the idea of the major themes taking a big final bow.
As I wrote in another thread: Tintin 2 would be the ideal movie to do now with all the Mocap in controlled environments. I don‘t care if Jackson or Spielberg is director, just do the movie now, so Williams can start writing music!
I really love how JP seems to know and try to relate with filmmusic fans’s specific wishes and concerns, such as really long tracks and complete track title order.
It wont be surprising if Powell may have taken a look at this forum, FSM or filmtracks, to hear what we say.