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DarthDementous

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  1. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Marian Schedenig in SPOILER TALK: Rogue One by Gareth Edwards   
    I for one liked it, a lot. And after thinking about it for a day, I still do, and expect I'll enjoy it at least as much on repeated viewings.
     
    It's enough of its own thing to distinguish it from the "main series" of SW films, while still clearly tying it to the others. Yes, Tarkin and Leia had a clear uncanny valley vibe, but I didn't think they were poorly done. In fact I was rather impressed how nearly real they seemed. And I think Tarkin's presence makes enough sense to justify this route (making him a significant character and then hiding him in the shadows the whole time would have been even weirder, close to Plan 9 territory). I could have done without the CGI Leia, but it's just a brief moment, and I figure at that point they thought, we've done tons of scenes with Tarkin, so why not?
     
    Yes, the characters were somewhat vague and underdeveloped. I actually think that makes sense. None of the main characters in this ever meet the main characters of the "regular" films, i.e. "our" characters. Certainly Jyn doesn't. The film is a side story to the main series, and its plot is just a heroic tale to Luke & Co. Keeping the characters somewhat nondescript actually corroborates that and, at least for me, places it more firmly in the overall story arc.
     
    The score was good. The weakest bit was easily the main title motif thingy, which sounds like a futile attempt to write something that sounds like Williams's Star Wars titles, while being different, without being too different, while still being good and recognisable. It's all too recognisable, and not good. But the rest of the score is. Like usual, Giacchino supports the film well, and he actually manages to very often sound like his score is coming from the same sound world as the original Star Wars. He does, with good taste, resurrect both of Williams special Star Wars motifs, as expected. I don't think any other Hollywood composer would have done that, and I give him bonus points for it.
     
    I loved the way the whole thing leads directly into Star Wars. It makes it feel like a proper prequel, and I can't wait for the Blu-ray to view this and SW back to back. (And technically: Yes, Vader mentions "transmissions". The Death Star plans were transmitted to the fleet by Jyn, and then carried over to the Tantive IV.)
  2. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to leeallen01 in SPOILER TALK: Rogue One by Gareth Edwards   
    I enjoyed the film so much, that I forgot about the whole feeling I get with other Star Wars films, like "where is the inevitable lightsaber duel" and I didn't care one bit about Jedi's and Lightsabers etc and just had so much fun and interest involved in it. But when the Rebels looked into that dark corridor and Vader was lit up by the light of his saber, I was not ready for how F***ING AMAZING that scene was.
     
    But I do also believe that the space battle was the best space battle ever done in Star Wars by far. That ship that was designed to ram other ships was so great. And cutting the power to the star destroyer and ramming it into another one was very inventive and visually stunning. 
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    DarthDementous reacted to Will in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    My Informal Thoughts
     
    I just finished my first listen to the OST a little bit ago. 
     
    I loved it, particularly the opening half or so. There were some absolutely glorious moments, and I couldn't wipe the smile off my face.
     
    I didn't mind the title theme. I actually loved it, to be honest, although, obviously, liking stuff like that may have more to do with the general "awesome march with swashbuckling percussion" aesthetic than any sort of compositional genius. 
     
    It's unfortunate to see the reactions from many of the more musically knowledgeable members here. As they put it, at best I'm loving a terrible score, and at worst I'm contributing to the decline of good film music by doing it. 
     
    My enthusiasm has massively deflated as I finished up the album and then came over to JWFan, likely due both to losing endurance to finish the score, as happens with any score, and the myriad highly negative posts. 
     
    I've almost wondered whether I should avoid saying anything positive, just so a million of you don't start refuting my post sentence by sentence. 
     
    But, I will be honest, and say that I loved this score, certainly at least the first half before I started to lose "listening endurance" -- or possibly the music just became worse, or maybe a little of both. 
     
    Jyn's theme was marvelous. I actually didn't mind the Yorktown similarity at all. Jyn's theme was actually better IMO, anyway. Several of the early statements really made me go "Wow!!" The Yorktown theme was very nice, but I never really found it completely satisfying, and Jyn's theme took what I loved about Yorktown and added what I'd been yearning for. The orchestration is more interesting too. Wooo! 
     
    I actually think fans will love this score for that theme. It's absolutely massive, which, whether you like it or not, might be enough for general SW fandom. It might take time but I feel like it will get a great reaction. 
     
    (As a side note, there is a bit of a problem here of Giacchino throwing all sorts of massive thematic statements at us early in the score -- there's not much to build up to, and don't tell me, "It's building up to a rendition with choir!")
     
    I do actually like a lot those crescendos that people are complaining about (the ones that sound a little like this Star Trek bit: https://youtu.be/ZJ0lt52_r7E?t=92)
     
    I do agree that the Imperial theme sounds a little too comedic, although perhaps its usage in the film will change that (e.g. some people thought the March of the Resistance sounded evil, until they saw the film). But, it was rather catchy, you have to give it that! Of course, it is also kind of bland -- it grows on you the more you listen to it, but it reminds of the Crash Decisions motif in that it's kind of catchy and sufficient, but somewhat bland. 
     
    I did have one of the themes stuck in my head a little bit ago. Might be Jyn's theme. If not, it's Chirrut's theme. 
     
    Speaking of Chirrut's theme, I didn't really think it sounded like Across the Stars. It was nice. 
     
    I was glad that Giacchino largely held the choir back for special moments, rather than littering every cue with grating screeching voices. 
     
    I thought the score fit very well with the Star Wars aesthetic. I know that the musically knowledgeable people here will surely vehemently disagree (particularly when you get down to the orchestrational, chord progression, voice leading, etc. nitty-gritty), but I thought the score felt very Williams-y. It really didn't feel all that much like the Giacchino I'm used to, save for a few extremely non-Williams-y but very Giacchino-y moments (for instance, the solo piano bit in the middle of the score), as well as some pedestrian action material (although other action material, such as "Rogue One," was pretty darn great). This score felt better, and more Williams-y. But at the same time, I didn't often notice a "pastiche" quality. It felt fresh, but Williams-y. 
     
    There was also a "desert-y" sound to the beginning IMO. Maybe I was just making this up in my head since I was pretty sure that segment of the film took place in a desert ... but in any case I felt that there was a consistent "feel." You can tell you're in a North Africa-like environment, but at the same time rarely is this "shouted out." It's usually more subtle.
     
    Williams' themes were used tastefully, and there were some really cool moments with them. Really fun when you suddenly hear the Force theme in a cue! Oh, and rebel fanfare took a while to show up, what was up with that?  
     
    On that note, I do need to say that it's possible my positive reaction is due in part to this simply being a SW film and score. I love SW. If this were some random video game score, and also totally avoided Williams theme references (which would bring it out of the SW universe a bit), I'm not sure how I'd rank it. This does not mean I don't stand by my opinion, but rather that I admit to being influenced by context with music, as I'm sure all are, some much more than others. 
     
    Moving on, I haven't listened to all that much Giacchino, really, compared to most here. Beyond, Inside Out, Strange, and of course Rogue One for full OSTs, plus bits of the first two Treks, Jurassic World, Tomorrowland, and Zootopia. 
     
    Jay has said that the score feels like "same-old" to those who've followed Giacchino for years, and perhaps this is true. Perhaps what feels like a step up to me is merely a return to some old norm. 
     
    However, as I listened, I thought that this score is probably the best thing I've ever heard from Giacchino. I was hoping that perhaps the level of compositional intelligence as judged by those who can figure out that stuff would also be higher than ever, but, alas, it seems that Giacchino has received a failing grade as usual. 
     
    And, frankly, it's hard to argue with those who can actually write music themselves and/or have listened to thousands more scores than you have when you can barely figure out what instruments are playing, and are a recent entrant to film music fandom. 
     
    That's my two cents for now. I'll listen again, and am very excited for the film when I see it Saturday ... but I will say that it's quite deflating when you want to have lots of positive discussion of a score and most people don't like it. This will be no TFA-style discussion, that's for sure. More like The BFG, except possible more negative. 
     
    And, unlike with The BFG, I don't have some sort of "high ground" to claim, since apparently Giacchino's level of compositional intelligence here is absurdly low. (I assume it is possible that someone very musically knowledgeable with come out and say they love the score and that it's actually rather intelligent, but I doubt that will happen.)
     
    In terms of unreleased music, I have a feeling that there's a ton. Even some of the preview clip stuff is missing, and there's no way the final battle is only made up of a few cues. 
     
    Listen two commences now! (although it may finish tomorrow)
     
    EDIT: Not sure how well this score will hold up to repeated listens. Perhaps I'm just "music-ed out" for the night, though. 
     
    Also, I'm sure seeing the film will put everything in a whole new light, as it always does. 
  6. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Alan in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Nope and there is nothing wrong with that. It's a very very good Star Wars spin-off score with decent themes.
     
    The suggestion that you must somehow be a millennial to enjoy it is actually rather off too!
  7. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Alan in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Very happy that the choral Vader passage in Hope was on the album. Was worried that'd be saved for a later release.
  8. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to leeallen01 in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Just seen the film. Really enjoyed it. Way more than Force Awakens. Giacchino did well with the job he had. Some lovely string ostinatos and brass flourishes. Big fan of the new Imperial theme for Krennick. It made perfect sense to focus on him musically for the bad guys, simply because pointlessly plastering the film with the Imperial March would have been overkill. The final act of battles was well scored and so too was most of the reuse of Williams stuff. I liked hearing Vaders motif used and not just imperial march for him. Nice touch. 
     
    Definitely seeing it again. And I can't wait for the score to arrive!
  9. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Alan in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Really liking the score! Thought it worked great in the film and I like that we get a new Imperial theme seeing as the Imperial March is actually Vader's theme and so it is saved for him. Krennick is our way in to the Empire this time so it makes sense that we get new material for him.
     
    I also had no problem with the title cue. Sounded just fine as a Star Wars spin-off fanfare to me.
  10. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Damien F in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    From a film review:
     
     
    The review is here but I haven't read it all so I don't know if it contains spoilers http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/Rogue-One-crashes-and-burns-with-its-own-self-importance.html
     
    To be fair, I have seen some film reviews that praise the score, but once again this is an example of a film critics jumping on the 'scores should be little more than sound design' bandwagon. I mean, a ship taking off is a perfect reason for a crescendo and we got loads of that in the prequel trilogy.
     
    It is another example of the gulf that exists between film critics and score fans, and I don't understand this recent trend. I wonder do most critics really understand exactly why they are complaining about orchestral music or are they simply following the trend without giving it any greater thought.
     
    Could you imagine if Jurassic Park was released today and the nonsense that critics would probably write about the Journey To The Island music:
     
     
  11. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Bilbo in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    My cinema played the OST as we were waiting for the film to start. Was a nice touch. 
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    DarthDementous reacted to leeallen01 in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Sky battle is my favourite piece from Desplat's HP stuff. Simply because it can regularly fool me enough to believe Williams did them all.
  14. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Incanus in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Isn't that sort of great in this day and age? It happened to me with TFA and I think the experience was all the better for it.
  15. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Marcus in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Perhaps somewhat strangely, this isn't how it works. 
     
    I've often pondered about this in my own work, as well as in the work of my colleagues, and the time invested and the quality of the piece in question simply do not correlate.
    Some of the greatest works of all time were written very quickly, while lesser works by the same composers were the fruits of years of laborious effort. 
     
    True, there are certain pieces that simply require more time to manifest themselves in terms of ink and pages, due to the amount and complexity of information. 
    But by and large, the only correlation between time spent writing and the quality of writing, is on a more global scale of the individual writer's experience in terms of craftsmanship. 
     
    Obviously, having lots of time to invest in a work is always a luxury, as it does allow you to take a step back from time to time and look at things from a bird's eye perspective, and theoretically, it offers the chance to spend more hours exploring your material. 
     
    What tends to happen when we write under pressure (assuming we're experienced enough to be able to do so), is that craft takes over; choices we'd otherwise mull over and endlessly scrutinize, are made almost instinctively. What we tend to reveal, is the basics of our aesthetic practice, our private clichés, if you like. 
    But surprisingly often, sheer panic opens the gate to a kind of "core energy" that may lead us to make daring and inspired choices, despite the circumstances (other composers will know what I'm talking about). 
     
    My point is that the quality of your writing is primarily contingent on your talent and technique, no matter what schedule you're on. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  16. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to mrbellamy in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    I don't think I'd see it as a "random" action theme in that case. The Falcon chase is one of the defining set pieces of the movie! Also I think a connection could be made with how they're both themes of flight and heroism. They both just capture the film's optimism and energy nicely when brought together. Technically Poe's theme functions as an action theme as well.
     
    I've always really liked the Finn/Poe thing too but I think it's just a stretch to specifically connect it with only his character in how it's used in the film. I think if anything you might as well bring Rey into it and say that Williams is bringing together all the exciting adventures and exploits of the three new heroes. Between both of these themes you've got the TIE fighter escape, the Falcon chase, the Rathtars escape, the Takodana battle, and even destroying Starkiller. In that way you could call it a Rey/Finn action motif for that first leg of the adventure (which also still allows for the "Finn on the run" imagery), which then disappears as they split up and their story becomes more perilous. Combining that with Poe's theme is perhaps Williams fully expressing all that youthful energy that he said he felt watching it.
     
    I still can't remember if JW himself called that thing for Finn in an interview or if it's all taken from what Boyega said. I guess I would be okay just saying it's Finn's "by default" since Rey has her personal theme but more than any specific character, what it really feels like to me is Williams almost tapping into the zippy pacing and general exuberance of the film experience itself, epitomized by that memorable Falcon sequence. That's what it always makes me think of and why I like its inclusion in the suite. It's about calling back to the fun, good-natured spirit of the earlier parts of the film. 
     
    ETA I checked the film again and yeah, to me the Rathtar statement really is about emphasizing Rey and Finn together on the move, obvious callback to the Jakku sequence. I don't think the Falcon thing is as convincing and I also don't feel like it's about Finn any more than Rey. Possibly it would lean to Finn if you counted how often it synced up with individual shots of him lol, but I think it's really just about these two together on their new escapades (there's that CMIYC reference ) so I think it's most accurate to call it a shared Rey/Finn motif, separate from her personal theme. I might say there are shades of it as well in the rapid string figures as they're hiding from Han/Chewie and trying to release the gas, and as crumbs said, the unused statement for the two of them in the vents.
     
    But now I want to know if Williams also wrote some fucking badass unused versions for Finn's battles with the Stormtrooper and Kylo Ren. Then I'd totally give it to him!
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    DarthDementous reacted to Jay in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    I think so too.  In an alternate reality where Giacchino was hired in 2014 instead of Desplat, and Doctor Strange went to someone else so he could begin working on this in earnest right after Star Trek Beyond, and we'd have ended up with quite a different score than the 4week rush job we're getting, methinks.
  19. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to BloodBoal in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Are you drunk? Or is your keyboard drunk?
  20. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to crumbs in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Williams wasn't joking when he said Rey is the main reason he wants to come back. After all, her music is leaps and bounds beyond most of the other writing in the score. The Jedi Steps is easily the most focused cue in the film, too. But it's almost jarring how the depth of orchestral texture and refinement in Rey's concert suite stands out against the restraint of the score proper.
     
    Overall TFA fits the film like a glove but there's definitely sections of uninteresting underscore. And weirdly, much of the unreleased music sounds more "showy" than the final score.
     
    Gotta wonder if JJ's total inability to figure out the film's tone until the dying months of post-production contributed to this? Quantity over quality sort of thing, where JW was constantly rewriting cues and had less inclination to refine or add more musical layers. Tracks like The Rathtars! are an instant skip for me; not musically interesting in the slightest (but neither is the Grievous material in ROTS).
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  22. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Arpy in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    But where's Duel of the Fates, guys? Where's Duel of the Fates?
  23. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Quintus in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Silly, every new Star Wars movie is the best Star Wars movie since Empire Strikes Back. 
  24. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to mrbellamy in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    William Ross has actually written every John Williams score except COS.
  25. Like
    DarthDementous reacted to Manakin Skywalker in Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available   
    Off topic: I'm still waiting for Disney to announce a special limited edition Rogue One album with 15 levels of emboss!
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