
DarthDementous
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DarthDementous got a reaction from justaguy in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
@Cantus Venti did you just agree with @artguy360's sarcasm? hoo boy.
could you please stop with this insulting notion that the only reason I give praise to TFA's score is because its 'Star Wars' or its 'John Williams' or I'm 'caught up in the hype' like I'm some blind fan-boy? I adore the score because I think its masterfully constructed, perfectly compliments the movies' emotional beats and delivers on the quota of memorable themes and moments of music. there's only about 2 or 3 tracks that I don't enjoy listening to, I can just shut my eyes for the rest and have a complete understanding of what's going on in the movie without needing to see it, like the Original Trilogy scores.
we get it, you don't think its up to scratch for John Williams, but just leave it at that than trying to convince all us 'sheeple' that we're misguided and should heed the statistics, ironically what you were trying to disprove was important about TFA on account of its critical and fan praise.
and before you edit your post or try and claim that you're not doing this, let me directly quote from your post:
clearly its not fine if you can't see this score as legitimately being liked (standing the test of time) because its all about the hype, something which you hilariously think pointing out makes you intelligent.
why do we care about the majority's opinion anyway? I thought it was quite known that something doesn't have to be popular to be good, especially something even more subjective than film-making: music.
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DarthDementous reacted to Bilbo in Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them 5-film series
I think this is likely and makes me wish we had Williams doing it even more.
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DarthDementous reacted to mstrox in Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Gareth Edwards 2016)
Maybe Desplat heard that I thought his music was boring, so he graciously stepped aside.
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DarthDementous reacted to Incanus in Kylo Ren's fan theme
I think these reactions depend on expectations and indeed perceptions of Kylo Ren as a character.
To my mind Ben (or Ren) shows the impetuous immaturity of youth very clearly in the film. He has been raised to a position of power by Snoke, which he thinks he deserves through his skills and lineage but is constantly hounded by insecurity and immaturity. He lacks focus and concentration, self control, that would allow him to rule his passions and rage, from which he seems to think he can draw a lot of his power but which is mostly shown as a weakness not a resource. There is arrogance and pride in him and wounding of his pride and ego when his own actions and rash choices cause failure lead to uncontrolled rage. He has a legacy to live up to and he obviously fears that he can't.
He is the Darth Vader wannabe but actually still far from attaining such status or power. He throws his authority around with mandate from Snoke without actually having quite yet earned it, at least during the events we see in the film. And just like Darth Vader in the first SW film Kylo Ren is still an errand boy of a more powerful manipulative being, Snoke, not the head honcho even though he wields a lot of influence over the First Order.
Musically Kylo Ren's themes, the fanfare and the constantly descending fateful line to my mind capture this essence of the character quite succintly (be they worn dramatic musical devices or not). That exclamatory fanfare connects with the Imperial tradition (note the fanfarish flourishes surrounding the theme on Jakku, which seem to be derived from the final section of the Imperial March concert suite) and is a classic "bad guy is here" calling card which really shows the egomaniacal bluster of Kylo in his Knight of Ren persona. It exhibits his impetuous nature with short angry musical burst, an exclamation, which flares up suddenly, just like his anger and violent behaviour. He wants to be Darth Vader but can't quite summon up similar persona no matter how he postures around in a helmet and black clothes. Hence the theme doesn't go much beyond the initial 5-note motif.
The second theme for Kylo, the descending line is simple, almost obsessive, strangely mournful and threatening at the same time in how it constantly repeats (sometimes over churning low strings), depicting his inner conflict and self doubt, which manifests especially in his encounters with Rey who tests his power with the Force but Williams alludes to his susceptibility to the dark side with it when he injects it under the dialogue of Han and Leia as they discuss how Snoke manipulated their son to join him. There is a pull between the light and dark in him. Williams also uses the motif freely as secondary material for Kylo Ren for the sake of aural variety and alternates the two motifs e.g. in The Ways of the Force although it could be said that each motif underscores specific dramatic beats in the duel as well.
So I personally feel these two compact ideas to be pretty accurate musico-dramatic equivalents of two different sides of Kylo Ren's persona. He in a sense has not earned a full fledged villain theme yet although his motifs are the main villanous material of the score. It is no Imperial March but to my mind it didn't need to be. Let's see if Wililams might actually get to expand upon these musical ideas in the sequels in a way that feels natural progression and possibly create a lengthier thematic representation for the character.
P.S. Keep up the good work with the composing.
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DarthDementous reacted to Loert in Found a phrase from the "Adventures of Tintin" score in "The force awakens"!
It always upsets me when I read people saying that tracks like this are "just noise". It takes a tremendous amount of skill, effort, and above all confidence, to write music like this; to achieve balance within the orchestra, to make all the different ideas flow together. Besides, I love the energy and excitement Williams' action tracks convey. It's the kind of music I can play over and over again, discovering something new with each listening.
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DarthDementous reacted to KK in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
Cantus, all great themes are really just re-combinations and arrangements of familiar musical structures. What makes Williams stand above the rest as a tunesmith is his incredible patience and crafting, adjusting and fine-tuning that sequence to come up with the tune that is "just right". And as much as composers rely certain intervals and cadences to evoke the appropriate feeling, it's ultimately a very subjective voice that determine whether that half note should become a dotted quarter, or whether the 4th should move to a 6th instead. Williams has spent so many years doing just this, as much of his Hollywood success is indebted to it, so his instincts are incomparably sharp in this regard. There's a reason that so many amateur Williams clones are so good at aping his sound without actually being able to capture the essence of what makes that classic Williams tune.
To me, Rey's Theme is a clear product of that same artist, but one that is less interested in getting to the crowd and more keen on capturing a more personally evocative feeling. He takes melodic units that he's grown rather accustomed to, and plays around with them in more unconventional ways in comparison to his Hollywood hits. It sounds like something he wrote more for himself than others, and I think that's what gives it that "sunset quality" that everyone was raving about initially. I doubt most here actually believe it to be his best, but that doesn't make it any less beautiful.
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DarthDementous reacted to Sharkissimo in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
I compose when I have the time. "Anyone here could have written Rey's theme" strikes me as woefully naive, and gives me the impression that you're young and precocious--the type that would dismiss Eric Satie, John Barry or John Tavener. I say that because I was (sorta) like you when I first hit JWFan 5 years ago. I can only hope you mature out of this phase and will be able to look back on these early posts and cringe or laugh.
Writing a theme this precise and eloquent in character is extremely challenging. You're constantly second-guessing yourself as you refine your idea, until it "speaks" in a musical and almost logical way. It's not something you can really teach, either.
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DarthDementous reacted to crumbs in Complete Philosopher's Stone Soundtrack on YouTube
The first score is amazing but it's conventional Williams. He can write scores like the first two Potter's in his sleep.
Azkaban is remarkable because it's such uncharted territory by comparison. Cuaron pushed him out of his comfort zone and produced a unique, bizarre, otherworldly score, yet for all its idiosyncrasies it still works holistically. Not only does it punch home the emotional heart of Cuaron's direction, it fits the film like a glove and stands on its own as one of the most enjoyable standalone listening experiences of Williams' entire career.
It's so remarkable how perfectly the colour of the score encapsulates the entire Potter universe, I'm certain no other composer could've achieved anything close.
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DarthDementous reacted to Richard P in Complete Philosopher's Stone Soundtrack on YouTube
Overall I think the first score is the better, more consistent score, but Azkaban has some amazing unreleased highlights which make it so sought after.
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DarthDementous reacted to aviazn in The Force Awakens - Complete Score Breakdown & Chronological Order (Film Spoilers Allowed)
It also appears as a bold five-note variation in I Can Fly Anything (take out the second note and it's the same motif). Can't remember exactly what's on screen, but I'm tempted to hazard a guess that it's when the First Order notices the errant TIE fighter and scrambles to respond.
Seems like a First Order equivalent to the original Imperial motif from ANH? Maybe Williams always intended to flesh it out in the later movies like with the Imperial March, and so he was content to let it fall by the wayside as scoring progressed on TFA.
Come to think of it, The Starkiller is basically exactly what I would expect JW to write if JJ Abrams had come back to him, showed him one of his big emotional moments that Giacchino scored with quiet strings and was like, "Can you do it like that, Johnny?" And JW would've been like, "JJ baby, I'll do it, but it'll have more than four chords, ok?"
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DarthDementous reacted to Arpy in Complete Philosopher's Stone Soundtrack on YouTube
I discovered the sessions leaked but only four years ago, so it's really kind of a thing you must be in-the-know, on the right pages sort of deal. I was like: "How did I miss these sessions? I've waited so long for these damn things!" Which I presume is what a lot of people out there are hoping for - complete releases.
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DarthDementous got a reaction from crumbs in Complete Philosopher's Stone Soundtrack on YouTube
thanks for informing me, I guess this post is redundant after all haha.
of course the best John Williams score of Harry Potter hasn't been leaked in its entirety, that's just how it works out D:
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DarthDementous reacted to Balahkay in Complete Philosopher's Stone Soundtrack on YouTube
Hopefully LLL will take care of that soon. :-)
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DarthDementous reacted to BLUMENKOHL in Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Gareth Edwards 2016)
Say what you will about Lucas, but he was good at coming up with wacky shit.
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DarthDementous reacted to Brónach in Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Gareth Edwards 2016)
"Alien" doesn't necesarily mean "not reminding you of Earth".
The beach is okay. It's an entire galaxy, water is common, we've seen loads of planets with 1g, breathable atmosphere and normal surface pressure, and I'm pretty sure terraforming is possible for these folks. It fits.
The imposed technological limitations in the SW movies seem more about time travel, teleportation, anti-aging technology and a sort of technological stasis where things look a bit different every time but they work the same. Those are the limits of the sandbox more or less. Inside the sandbox, you can do almost anything.
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DarthDementous reacted to A24 in Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Gareth Edwards 2016)
The fans: Yeah hah! More Death Star!
Not a problem, just as long as the backgrounds are otherworldly. Soon they are going to film Star Wars in the streets of New York with the Statue of Liberty in the background. The fans don't seem to mind.
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DarthDementous reacted to Wojo in Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Gareth Edwards 2016)
There are gaps in it where you see the blackness of space through the disc. That might be the superstructure that holds the real reflector disc, to be added last.
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DarthDementous reacted to KK in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
I think pub was referring to the opening phrase, arguing that it has some pent atonic character, with its use of the scale. But yeah, I wouldn't argue it's a pentatonic melody.
And its amusing how much meaningless rhetoric and jargon that Cantus is trying to pull to "justify" the memorability of this tune. Lol
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DarthDementous reacted to Sharkissimo in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
He did, but in the mode of a paranoid schizophrenic.
Is he banned?
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DarthDementous reacted to Sharkissimo in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
An arpeggio? WTF? It's an ostinato accompaniment. If you're going to spout musical terminology with the haughty schoolmarm tone you going for, at least get your definitions straight. Then your posts in this thread might be less objectionable. Otherwise frankly, you come off as a pompous idiot.
Why is the 4-5 appoggiatura a "terribly weak and indistinct sound?" No mention of the theme's modality?
What fuck is that when it's at home? Are you posting through Babelfish? You string these words together to give your posts a thin veneer of credibility, but they are so vague and ill-defined that they mean nothing.
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DarthDementous reacted to Code 000. Destruct. 0. in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
Truly one of the most ridiculous posters of my tenure here, it's turning out. And no amount of posturing and faux-superiority/intellectualism and dismissals of "hype" can hide that. No one takes issue with you not liking the theme. But your "I'm defending my thesis" act, that's silly.
Your arguments are flimsy, unconvincing, arrogant. No one is reading your posts and nodding in agreement. Whether you recognize this as indicative of faults in your thinking, or of the lower mental alacrity of everyone who isn't you, is up to you. Though the latter choice makes it all the more entertaining for the rest of us.
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DarthDementous reacted to #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
Lol!
No one requires you to love Rey's theme. But your justifications are hilarious.
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DarthDementous reacted to mrbellamy in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
You said you're not hearing anybody humming or remembering it. I merely linked to five listeners outside of this website who tweeted positively about it in the last few days and a hundred or so others in agreement. That's it.
It is rather meaningless! Much like your condescending claims that you cracked the case through objective academic study (or at least a high school statistics project) and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the inferiority of Rey's Theme and lack of public interest in this music relative to his previous work at the same point in their releases.
If you stopped at "I don't like Rey's Theme and doubt it will be remembered years from now," fine by me. I don't even care about your incredulity over people enjoying this as much as anything Williams has ever written. Quit presenting yourself as an authority with nothing to show for it. The content of your posts is not convincing, despite your passionate rhetoric.
I actually agree that those first six notes do not immediately call attention to themselves as a thematic idea. It's the responding six that always catch my ear and complete that initial phrase. To me Rey's is a call-and-response theme, it needs both halves to make me go "That's a tune!". In that way, maybe not the most efficient theme he's ever written, when many of his others can get away a little easier with 6 or 7 notes.
On the other hand, it's not exactly hard to find in this score. I'm as skeptical of your ongoing struggles with it as you are over our enthusiasm. It seems to me like you're trying to apply a sort of Western/European ideal of melodic construction while ignoring what a pentatonic figure might be bringing that's unique to the glossary, and what these "softer," slightly lurking or meandering qualities may be communicating for the character and the narrative.
And that said, I have always found those first six notes to be an incredibly dramatic rising figure from the moment I first heard that climactic Ways of the Force excerpt in the 60 Minutes special, blasted on horns with high suspended strings. It never occurred to me that it was the beginning of the film's central melody, but I certainly recognized gravitas.
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DarthDementous reacted to Marcus in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
Well, if you persistently can't remember Rey's theme, then I suppose that can't be helped. But I'm not sure Williams is to blame.
To my mind, what struck me immediately, was how beautifully sculpted the theme is, and how very carefully structured it is (all of it revolving around the interval of a minor third).
I also found the D-E (4th to 5th) melodic cadence of the first phrase very beautiful, and quintessentially williams-esque; it's a sort of musical equivalent to what in poetry is referred to as a feminine cadence (two syllables, instead of a monosyllabic, harder ending).
Perhaps you expected a different, broader or simpler theme. But that's the thing with character themes: They're supposed to reflect characters, and as such, I think what Williams wrote is just about as perfect a musical depiction of Rey's character as I can imagine.
And I LOVE that it caught me a bit by surprise.
(I also think the undulating minor third intro motif is about as catchy a hook as anything the Star Wars scores have offered)
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DarthDementous reacted to BLUMENKOHL in Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?
I’m afraid you’re missing a big piece of brain. Or something.