DominicCobb

I hate to say it but I think pretty much anyone who doesn't put SW77 first is flat out wrong. One must consider that, when we judge the original film's end credits suite we are actually judging 100% of it, unlike the 8 other end credits suites where the first 30 seconds or so is always just a lift from SW. (not to mention the three suites that lift the end as well). That blast of the end credits, Luke's theme, Rebel fanfare, and rolling thunder combo is the backbone of every episodes' end credits suite and makes the original film absolutely undefeated in this regard.

Purely on the basis of the End Credits:
 
1. ANH - the gold standard, perfectly constructed
2. ESB - three all-time-thrilling statements of principle themes, but not as balanced or iconic as ANH
3. TFA - a thrilling recap of the score
4. TROS - a genuinely new and extended treatment of Anthem of Evil & partially new treatment of Rise of Skywalker themes count for a lot to me
5. ROTJ - lovely transition into L&L, integration of Throne Room into coda. But not in same league as the others.
6. TLJ - not great, but not nearly as poor as people make it out to be.
7. AOTC - the only PT score that has any novel music in the Credits, namely that tiny little coda that alludes to Anakin's theme)
8. ROTS - nothing new besides an embarrassing transition into and out of BoTH
9. TMP - nothing here besides concert arrangements
 
I judge the End Credits mostly on whether they present a genuinely new twist of their respective themes, vs. if it's just music that can be heard in stand-alone concert arrangements.
 
As far as Finales go, I guess it depends on how far you're willing to stretch into the film itself. I don't rank Jedi Steps especially high, esp. not as a finale b/c of the warmed-over ROTS Force Theme ending, but if I include the "Farewell & the Trip," it suddenly becomes like my #1 or #2. But, just in terms of the minute or two of music immediately before the End Credits, my finales are
 
1. ESB - Finale
2. AOTC - Finale (final version) -- spectacular 
3. ANH - Throne Room
4. ROTS - A Home for the Twins
5. ROTJ - Victory Celebration 
6. TROS - A New Home (actually prefer this to Jedi Steps, think it's more interesting musically)
7. TFA - Jedi Steps
8. TPM - The Big Parade
9. TLJ - Finale
10. ROTJ - Yub Nub (sorry)

Interesting. I do hear the connection (especially on a track like "The Baby" where one flows into the other). Goransson seems fond of doing these sorts of deconstructed variations.
 
 
Yeah, definitely fair enough. It's a lot easier to keep track if they all have different names anyway.

0:00 of The Mandalorian (Orchestral Version) is a string rendition of the "skeleton" of what I've been calling Recorder Riff. 
 
Also @DominicCobb that is a fair assessment. Naturally, for all intensive purposes I will retain the names that I've been using throughout the rest of the analysis. 
 
 

Yes.
 
 

As other members here have already stated in one way or another, one big thing these sequel scores have going for them over the OT and PT entries is the actual development of character themes over an entire trilogy.
 
It's a lot of fun going back and reading through our discussion threads for TLJ and seeing how, while some were expecting and hoping for Williams to pull a Shore and really advance and build upon the themes he had laid out in TFA, many were, understandably, expecting for Williams to do what he usually did with his sequel scores: revisit old themes through brief and limited renditions (perhaps with the occasional surprising variation here and there) but with largely no development, all while the new thematic material took center stage as the older stuff got relegated to the backseat. 

Which, again, was a logical assumption to make! That was the approach Williams used for The Lost World, that's how he handled things with the Potter sequels, that's largely how he handled character themes in his prior Star Wars films. Outside of the scope of the film that saw that theme being introduced, Williams never really seemed to have the desire to advance old themes for characters when there was new music to develop and focus on. 
 
The first time we hear Leia's theme in the OT and the last time we hear it in the OT. It goes out with a super brief rendition. Hardly seems like the last time you will be hearing it in the saga. 
The first time we hear Han and Leia's theme in the OT, the the last time we hear it in the OT. Nothing really has dramatically changed about it. 
The first time we hear Vader's theme in the OT, Vader isn't even on-screen and it's introduced uncharacteristically by woodwinds. It's concluded usage in the OT is in a very similar, albeit much softer, way. 
First time we hear Anakin's theme in the PT, last time we hear it in the PT. It's cold and distant in the end, a noticeable departure from how it was introduced. However, with the theme itself having been only a cameo appearance in the last 2 films of the PT, such a departure can't really be characterized as real tangible development, more of a brief alteration to match the character's new head-space as the theme itself isn't even synonymous with Anakin, only his childlike state. 
 
And the list goes on and on. Character themes within Star Wars had largely gotten cool variations here and there but no real conscious development as connected to the characters said themes were attached to. 
 
But with the ST, things are remarkably different. Rey's theme is first heard in TFA in a way that very much hearkens to the idea of someone who is just beginning their journey while also expressing the loneliness and perhaps lost nature that someone currently finds themselves in in searching for greater purpose. We last hear the theme in a way very suggestive of the completion of a journey and of someone who has matured through the events they have experienced. The theme concludes, like the character, in a way far different than how it started. Poe's theme goes through a similar metamorphosis also perfectly in line with his character growth, first heard in a way that perfectly embodies Poe's daring and hot shot nature at the start of the ST before last being heard in a way more befitting now of "Poe the leader" than "Poe the pilot." Those final thematic statements mean something this go around and are utilized by Williams as an opportunity to highlight character change. 
 
And Kylo Ren's theme, perhaps the best example, is introduced as this. It's huge, it's powerful, it's commanding of attention. This is someone to fear. By the end of the very next film, the theme has changed to match the evolved state of the character. His theme has more structured orchestral backing now, akin to the new First Order army he now has complete control over as Supreme Leader. The denser state of the rendition gives the theme more direction and clarity to its statement, similar to the sureness the character has now acquired throughout the film. By the very last film, it concludes by being used like this, this and this. You could not be more removed from the initial usage. It's now light, hopeful, very much a theme for a character of good. Kylo's theme, as a result, may be the most developed theme in all of Star Wars. This is not to dismiss all the wonderful variations of the Force theme we got across the 9 films, nor to ignore the unique permutations that Luke's theme has undergone. 
 
But as far as living up to the true purpose of a character theme, a recurrent musical idea associated with and fully representative of a particular person, Kylo's theme takes the cake. Every significant beat and change in that character feels like it is marked by a concurrent beat or change in his theme. 
 
I'm certainly not trying to critique or criticize one approach to theme usage over the other. Rather, I'm just trying to make the point that it seems like Williams went into this trilogy with the very conscious and deliberate choice to try a different approach with how he dealt with character themes (and sequel scores in general). He seems to treat them with a reverence he had normally forgone when doing scores to sequels in the past, reprising them unabashedly in new ways that connect with how the characters themselves are changing.  
 
As I started out saying, in trying to compare and contrast these 3 new scores over the other two trilogies, one way that this trilogy does stack up undeniably better (IMO) than the other ones is in character thematic development. Had Williams been able to go into these 3 films with a clear roadmap of where each character was going, he could have potentially capitalized on that approach even further, but I think he did a damn fine job despite that.
 
Sorry for the long-winded post. This is all pretty much stuff that has already been said in one way or another alongside fairly obvious observations that I'm sure most noticed and thought about, but I wanted to verbalize these thoughts nonetheless. 

Which of the SW OST programs are the best/worst in your opinion?
 
Please try to not allow your ranking of the scores themselves to influence your decisions. Rather consider how well these OST programs represent those scores, how many of the highlights are present or missing, how well the program flows as a musical experience, and so on.
 
My choices:
 
Best OST: TFA (SW and TLJ come close)
Worst OST: ROTJ
 
Best OT OST: SW
Worst OT OST: ROTJ
 
Best PT OST: AOTC
Worst PT OST: TPM (really tough to choose between this and ROTS)
 
Best ST OST: TFA 
Worst ST OST: TROS
 

All I know is that STAR WARS is on top and Attack of the Clones is on the bottom.

I think any limitation an amount of information is a relic of a bygone era. Maybe Williams doesn't care enough to care.
 
The fact - is for most people, music is going to exist as a streaming option, either on youtube or spotify or some other service. That is 99% of the public is soon going to consume their music. Discs might not survive.
 
And when music is primarily streaming, there are no limitations or curation that needs to be done. Pass the buck to the listener. Make it easy for yourself. Dump all you have recorded online and let people enjoy what they will. 

It's hard for me to think of this as anything but the least of the ST scores for me, at least at the moment. TFA had a whole host of fantastic new themes to did into, while TLJ spent a lot of time further developing those themes, with a lot of great, long set pieces to build lengthy pieces. The themes in TROS are nice, but they don't stack up against TFA. The further development of themes in TROS is nice too, but the lengthy sequences aren't there. Obviously I don't blame JW. But the Prologue is a mess, so we don't really have the same sort of fun opening like the last two films (the heavily edited Escape is a great, long piece even when listening to the film version). The final battle is where we might have expected some really exciting and big pieces for the battle (like Crait, Naboo, Endor, and Hoth before it) but, to me, "Battle of the Resistance" doesn't make the same sort of impression.
 
I guess part of the issue is missing music. The final third would be a lot more impressive when considering not just the OST, but the FYC and 'Lando Arrives' and 'Fighting the Guards.' Still, missing a little something, perhaps, but ultimately we must blame JJ primarily. Hopefully if we ever do get an isolated or expanded score my feelings can evolve (like they did on TLJ which I thought initially was just too heavily reliant on old themes).

I mean, in terms of action cues, it's very short of course but there's no moment for me in TROS that matches Holdo's Resolve. That's a cue that doesn't mickey mouse, and yet is perfectly synced to the visuals and works perfectly across 4 or 5 different intercutting locations to build one of the most fantastic and suspenseful moments in the film.
 
 
The next cue, Chrome Dome, does have some stabbing and mickey mousing, and that's part of what makes it great for me.
 
 
Love the cue/scene or not, there's not many moments in TROS where the music is this prominent and tied to the action.
 
Ultimately, when I think of TLJ action cues, I always think of The Supremacy. What a great cue that perfectly weaves the thematic material with the fast paced thrills and dread of the sequence. Not much stabby or mickey-mousy about that one either. 
 
 

It's hard for me to think of this as anything but the least of the ST scores for me, at least at the moment. TFA had a whole host of fantastic new themes to did into, while TLJ spent a lot of time further developing those themes, with a lot of great, long set pieces to build lengthy pieces. The themes in TROS are nice, but they don't stack up against TFA. The further development of themes in TROS is nice too, but the lengthy sequences aren't there. Obviously I don't blame JW. But the Prologue is a mess, so we don't really have the same sort of fun opening like the last two films (the heavily edited Escape is a great, long piece even when listening to the film version). The final battle is where we might have expected some really exciting and big pieces for the battle (like Crait, Naboo, Endor, and Hoth before it) but, to me, "Battle of the Resistance" doesn't make the same sort of impression.
 
I guess part of the issue is missing music. The final third would be a lot more impressive when considering not just the OST, but the FYC and 'Lando Arrives' and 'Fighting the Guards.' Still, missing a little something, perhaps, but ultimately we must blame JJ primarily. Hopefully if we ever do get an isolated or expanded score my feelings can evolve (like they did on TLJ which I thought initially was just too heavily reliant on old themes).

The action music, use of motifs, and sweeping dramatic music in Escape is far more coherent (especially the OST version) and developed than pretty much all the action music in TROS. My impression is that JW was writing music to mostly finished edits in TLJ whereas TROS kept changing right to the very end and so the music is heavily chopped up as a result, including the action music.

I much prefer the action music in TLJ to TROS. Calling an action cue like The Battle of Crait "stabby, mickey mousing" seems like a gross oversimplification.
 
There's longform musical ideas in there that Williams is able to develop and build over many minutes. The dramatic arc of Escape is unbelievable when you listen in complete form (and even still, we're missing big chunks of it). It builds and builds in tension masterfully, no other composer is capable of writing stuff this advanced (much less in their 80s).
 
His approach for TROS seems directly influenced by the return of Abrams, modular to compensate for chunks being deleted all over the place. He probably wonders why he even bothered with a track like Speeder Chase, given what happened to it. 

@DominicCobb I agree with your post 100%, especially the part about TLJ. 
 
TROS is my least favorite SW score (not counting Solo or Rogue One.)  It's good but I hope I grow to like it more like I did TLJ. 
 
I still appreciate @Jay's hard work with this breakdown. It helps a lot. 
 

Could be wrong but that sounds a lot like this to me
 
 

They indeed did not get to see the film before voting.

Could be wrong but that sounds a lot like this to me
 
 

Could be wrong but that sounds a lot like this to me
 
 

Could be wrong but that sounds a lot like this to me
 
 

Could be wrong but that sounds a lot like this to me
 
 

Could be wrong but that sounds a lot like this to me
 
 

Isn't the Golden Globes run by like 2 dozen star-fucking Europeans that live in LA and call themselves press?  Their importance is like that of Iowa in US presidential races: largely symbolic and increasingly tenuous as time goes by.

The implication is that JJ had wanted a badass epic version of Duel of the Fates, but voila, the movie ended up having some brand new appropriate Kylo-themed scoring there (magically? without JJ Abrams' knowledge?)
 
The whole Reddit "leak" reads like a wishlist of things a very specific group of nerds has been very vocal about on social media since the movie came out - the very type that hang out on that subreddit, in fact - and a bonzo conspiracy theory built around why those things weren't in it.  It was all a Machiavellian plot by Kathleen Kennedy and Disney to sandbag their franchise, despite Hero JJ's valiant efforts, in order to thwart an already floundering competitor franchise because someday maybe JJ Abrams will do something in that! (forget that James Gunn is already actively working on a DC movie and welcomed back into the Marvel fold)

That's tracked music from TLJ ("Lesson Two"), using the beginning of the cue and then the part that references the Emperor's theme (:28):
 
 
I think it transitions into something else when 3PO begins talking.