Oboejdub

this is me
 
 
 
 

it's odd because apparently Poe was originally just killed off and left dead, but they changed it to bring him back and keep him in the story.
the thing is, BB8 belongs to him. BB8 needs to be kept as a major character, which means Poe is involved or you kill him off and take his droid, right?
 
One of my favourite parts is in the end credits medley, when they take the Finn music and segue directly into Poe's music, and keep the running ostinato going behind it. It works fantastically well. Maybe they both seem to lack development because they are linked in that way.
 The way Finn's 2+2+2+2+3 polymeter transforms into poe's 6/8 + 3/4 makes me feel alive, and I feel it is a lot stronger than any of the times his theme is introduced on-screen.

it's odd because apparently Poe was originally just killed off and left dead, but they changed it to bring him back and keep him in the story.
the thing is, BB8 belongs to him. BB8 needs to be kept as a major character, which means Poe is involved or you kill him off and take his droid, right?
 
One of my favourite parts is in the end credits medley, when they take the Finn music and segue directly into Poe's music, and keep the running ostinato going behind it. It works fantastically well. Maybe they both seem to lack development because they are linked in that way.
 The way Finn's 2+2+2+2+3 polymeter transforms into poe's 6/8 + 3/4 makes me feel alive, and I feel it is a lot stronger than any of the times his theme is introduced on-screen.

it's odd because apparently Poe was originally just killed off and left dead, but they changed it to bring him back and keep him in the story.
the thing is, BB8 belongs to him. BB8 needs to be kept as a major character, which means Poe is involved or you kill him off and take his droid, right?
 
One of my favourite parts is in the end credits medley, when they take the Finn music and segue directly into Poe's music, and keep the running ostinato going behind it. It works fantastically well. Maybe they both seem to lack development because they are linked in that way.
 The way Finn's 2+2+2+2+3 polymeter transforms into poe's 6/8 + 3/4 makes me feel alive, and I feel it is a lot stronger than any of the times his theme is introduced on-screen.

it's odd because apparently Poe was originally just killed off and left dead, but they changed it to bring him back and keep him in the story.
the thing is, BB8 belongs to him. BB8 needs to be kept as a major character, which means Poe is involved or you kill him off and take his droid, right?
 
One of my favourite parts is in the end credits medley, when they take the Finn music and segue directly into Poe's music, and keep the running ostinato going behind it. It works fantastically well. Maybe they both seem to lack development because they are linked in that way.
 The way Finn's 2+2+2+2+3 polymeter transforms into poe's 6/8 + 3/4 makes me feel alive, and I feel it is a lot stronger than any of the times his theme is introduced on-screen.

this is me
 
 
 
 

We should be thankful that for the first time, the piano book of a Star Wars score isn't just the family-friendly concert suites, but contains really interesting stuff. Actual cues, with clusters! Shit, I'm getting emotional here.

I've been having a blast writing stuff out by ear, but should probably just buy this

Uh, is this only for "Digital Pianos" or will the transcriptions work on "Regular Pianos" as well?

I'm doing the same, catching up on all the old ones and really enjoying it. Jimmy's growing on me. At first I felt like all he did was slow it down and take screen time away from Dave Collins, but it's really not that bad. He has some really meaningful and thoughtful things to say here and there, and the impersonations are hilarious. Dave Collins could certainly save some time and never lose content simply by avoiding the question "do you remember this one, Jimmy?"

my oboe cover of Rey's Theme
 
 
 

i think that might be the one that shows up all the time with R2 and threepio
 
It happens a bunch in this scene (when r2 is swimming around and afterwards)
 
apparently also in the threepio+R2 scenes on Hoth, and some of the threepio scenes on cloud city.
 
(praise dave collins for unearthing that one)

 
It actually does; albeit not vintage 'Star Wars' Williams. Which is weird and brilliant at the same time...

here's my go at it. Got to the end of the fugato exposition (if that's the right descriptor).
 
I am sure I made mistakes (particularly inner voices) and some of my writing is a little disorganized (when 3 voices are moving at once it's tough), and I feel like there must be some suspensions or something that I missed during the last D minor bit.
March_of_the_Resistance.pdf

 
Absolutely!  JW balances thematic simplicity with structural complexity. 
 
A few vintage examples:
 
(starting at around 2:35 to the end for some serious writing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWOb4gTTWBI (0:24 seconds in) ...alot of other examples but you get the point.

More evidence, as these threads often provide, that it's vital as a composer to keep most of your mental space reserved for improvisation and experimentation rather than familiar scales or devices or whatever. While we puzzle over "why" Williams or any other good composer does what they do, they're out there just doing it because it sounds right.

Hello fellow JW fans,
I've just posted an orchestral reduction of the Star Wars main titles suite on Youtube, with audio and scrolling score (created by me). Dunno if any of you are interested in this sort of thing, but if you are, please check it out!

The encircled numbers refer to voicings I did of individual chords in a separate document (because they were too big and complex to label on the reduction itself). This document can be viewed and downloaded here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18637418/star%20wars%20voicings.pdf
Enjoy!

The augmented 4th may have been disallowed in early vocal music fof voice leading purposes, but those rules hardly apply anymore.
even Bach back in the 1700s redefined and twisted the rules in such incredible and progressive ways, you'd see tritones and wicked modulations that others would not dare. With the tritone, he's kind of implying an F7 leading us to B flat, a harmonic pattern that is entirely traditional within g minor, although he may not actually complete the chords in the orchestra. The melody ending on the leading tone is part of the cadential figure. On those two eighth notes we get a iv-V (c minor-D major), and the bass instruments use their little run to give V-i, a very standard cadence. The harmonies are surprisingly traditional throughout this piece, and stylistically it stands out from the rest of the soundtrack. I am reminded of romantic composers writing a fugato in the development section of a symphony movement, and in that sense i agree with 19th century influences. Because this is a concert version and not just a movie cue, it means the form and structure are self-contained, not interwoven with on screen action. I'm trying to continue the transcription... got most of the way into the fugato
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I think we will have a new Luke centred theme. The "Luke, rebel hero" theme has sort of been repurposed for all rebel heroes, and I don't think it fits the new Luke. He'll need a new "Luke, jedi master" theme. I'm looking at Jedi Steps. It's probably more about Luke than Rey.
 
It's a powerful moment of music (possibly best in the movie) and yet it only appears at the very end. I expect it'll become a major theme in the next movies, now that Luke is back (is he coming back? or is this his Dagobah and he's not going anywhere?)
 
Are we seeing a merging of elements of Yoda and Vader in this?
 
Here's a sketched transcription of Jedi Steps (it's not perfect, especially inner voices, but it's the rough idea). I stopped before the force theme entrance, because that part is obvious.
http://imgur.com/rvT4ppe
 
Opening is clearly a transformation of Luke's theme, played slower, a few notes left out (every second note, in fact)
If you need to see:
http://imgur.com/KENwdIU
 
We get some gentle marching G minor chords in the vibrophone, with little runs in the background. Very pensive, but indicative of marching or walking. (She is climbing the steps - true)
Somewhat evocative of the imperial march. (just imagine the 16th triplets after 3 and on 4)
 
Our jedi steps melody is simple and evocative. Descending fifth. upwards reaching two eight notes, arrive on a new chord and repeat the pattern.
There are similarities to imperal march:
The last two eight notes of each bar - not identical, but same contour (like the part of Rey's theme mentioned by IvanP)
The harmonies - g minor to Eb major, i to VI (inverted). If it were i to vi (minor!) that would be an absolute dead giveaway, so it's just a hint or possibility. At this point.
http://imgur.com/f7muHwH
 
It repeats in the flutes, and as the phrase ends, the brass enters with a new idea. and this one is 100% vader. It has the dotted rhythm, it has the flat vi minor chord on beat 4. It has the low brass. There is no way that this is not vader. 100% vader.
http://imgur.com/NSHLIzS
 
The horn has a transition bar (maybe a fragmented alteration of Luke's original theme, but less signficant) and comes back with the Jedi Steps melody. The horn plays it once then repeats it down the octave and it gets considerably darker and more menacing.
after that, the force theme enters and we know how it goes.
 
So that's the vader, now where did I get Yoda?
The opening of yoda's theme is gentle pulsing quarter note chords, about the same tempo, with harp flourishes in the background. Very similar texture but different harmonies.
The contour of yoda's melody: descending major triad on the first three beats, then a higher note on beat four leading to a chord change on the next bar.
The contour of Jedi Steps melody: descending perfect fifth (quarter note, half note) on the first three beats, then two higher eight notes on beat four leading to a chord change on the next bar.
The contours are not identical, but comparable. The harmonies are different (Yoda I to II major, Jedi Steps i to VI6 major). There could be something, but that's not very compelling in itself. There are slightly stronger similarities when you look at Yoda's death from RotJ, but it still feels like grasping at straws.
http://imgur.com/rmoiJFf
 
Next similarity, and this is the one that grabs me. The two bar vader quote is a similar rhythmic pattern to the second part of Yoda's theme, with the dotted figure on each downbeat, and in both cases it shows a marked change in character from the first part of the theme. In Yoda's case it gets considerably brighter and more jubilant, but in Jedi Steps it goes the opposite direction. Sad and plaintive sinks deep into menacing darkness.
http://imgur.com/jlyqYz4
 
Yoda meets vader. Does this get used elsewhere in the movie? It kinda sounds like it could be a generic evil/mystery motif whenever there's a shot of the imperial fleet or starkiller, but I don't think it is. It could just be the mystery of the situation. A hooded figure, a mythological figure, standing alone on an island being approached by a girl who has only heard the legends.
 
and one more thing, is there any Rey in here? I'm struggling to see it if there, is except for one thing. The tremolo'd harmonies between the first ands econd phrase of the Jedi Steps melody. g minor, and the strings move, and they seem to go to a sus2 type chord, or an incomplete ii with tonic pedal, or whatever you want to call it. G minor -> G A C -> G minor. That's the same as the vibes/piano riff in Rey's theme, the one that sounds a bit like Dies Irae. The upper two voices are moving in thirds and the bottom voice pedals on the tonic, leading to that exact chord pattern. It could be on purpose, or it could just be there because it sounds nice (it really does)
 
Has anyone spotted any other uses of this thematic material in the movie, besides the final scene?
 
The thing is, I feel like it's missing connections to the original Luke theme. Maybe it's not him, maybe it's the island/temple they are standing on. But the whole movie leads up to finding Skywalker, not just finding some temple.
 

Hi everyone! I'm new here, but I'm a lifelong Star Wars fan who loves to research behind-the-scenes stuff
 
The more I listen to the TFA soundrack, the more it seems different from the previous Star Wars pieces. It sounds fresh, but also closer to the "real" classical music than to the film scores. I feel like there's more to this score than Holst or Stravinsky or Newman influences; 'The Resistance March' sounds like it's from the XIX century, not XX, but I can't quite tell why. Sadly, I lack conservatory education to analyse classical composers' orchestration and harmony. Maybe you can give me some tips where to look for the possible sources of inspiration?
 
To have something to start with, I tried to write the March down, basing off your photo, and found some curiosities - like an augmented 4th (I actually had no idea it was legal in classical music), phrases ending with sharp 7th, LOTS of key changes and that pseudo-Phrygian motion in bars 20-21. I only did the beginning before starting to lose rhythm, but I hope this will be helpful - or maybe some of you will have some ideas which composers to research. I tried to google the use of augmented 4th, but it seems like it's a part of some larger harmonic patterns, and that's an area where I'd appreciate some tips... Thanks in advance!
Resistance_March.mscz

 

omg put in spoiler tags i haven't seen episode 3 yet

 
BTW RPurton, that exact fragment of imperial march in the lower strings DOES appear again, at the end of Farewell and the Trip, and this time there is no star destroyer in the background. im gettin goosebumps. a clue! a clue!
around 4:30
 
This comes just before jedi steps.

It could very well just be incidental to the shot of her passing the ruins of the Star Destroyer.

brass triplets and minor thirds In the context of themes we know:
 
If you listen to the imperial march,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH6wXaLQIMQ
Listen to those fast notes in the accompaniment, in the first two bars.
on paper the rhythm looks like this:
http://imgur.com/2HQwYie
1 2 takata 3 takata-takakta, 1 2 takata 3 takata-takakta. Those are the triplets that, when played in other contexts, make us think of the imperial march. In the end of the imperial march, the brass are playing those triplets in full force. Throughout the other movies, he often does this  to strongly evoke the imperial march, without playing the imperial march.
In the Attack on Jakku, he doesn't need to use the imperial march, but those triplets tell you all that you need to know for now. (about 2 minutes into Main Title/Attack on Jakku, again around 4:20 as mentioned)
 
Minor third: the interval between the root note and the middle note of a minor triad. It's one semi-tone smaller than a major third, which would be the interval in a major triad. On a piano, C to E-flat is a minor third. C to E is a major third. There are minor thirds everywhere because a lot of the music is in a minor key (even Rey's music). To me, the minor third wasn't really an identifying characteristic of any particular theme, but it's in there for sure. There are other elements of the imperial march that are so much more distinctive than that.
For example, the Imperial march moves primarily between two chords - they are both minor, but they are separated by a major third... The 3 main melody notes of the imperial march ar actually the outline of a major triad, but his harmonization makes it sound more minor then anything else we've heard before. (if you want notes, the melody goes G G G E-flat B-flat G, outlining E-flat major, but the chords accompanying that are G minor and E-flat minor)
the minor third in imperial march is the short note coming back to the main note. the "TA DUM" in  DUM DUM DUM, DUM TA DUM, DUM TA DUM
 
I wasn't giving a whole lot of thought to minor-thirds in general - maybe he knows a whole lot more about it than I do. I'm certainly being baited into ultra-deconstruction, as he describes it.

I think we will have a new Luke centred theme. The "Luke, rebel hero" theme has sort of been repurposed for all rebel heroes, and I don't think it fits the new Luke. He'll need a new "Luke, jedi master" theme. I'm looking at Jedi Steps. It's probably more about Luke than Rey.
 
It's a powerful moment of music (possibly best in the movie) and yet it only appears at the very end. I expect it'll become a major theme in the next movies, now that Luke is back (is he coming back? or is this his Dagobah and he's not going anywhere?)
 
Are we seeing a merging of elements of Yoda and Vader in this?
 
Here's a sketched transcription of Jedi Steps (it's not perfect, especially inner voices, but it's the rough idea). I stopped before the force theme entrance, because that part is obvious.
http://imgur.com/rvT4ppe
 
Opening is clearly a transformation of Luke's theme, played slower, a few notes left out (every second note, in fact)
If you need to see:
http://imgur.com/KENwdIU
 
We get some gentle marching G minor chords in the vibrophone, with little runs in the background. Very pensive, but indicative of marching or walking. (She is climbing the steps - true)
Somewhat evocative of the imperial march. (just imagine the 16th triplets after 3 and on 4)
 
Our jedi steps melody is simple and evocative. Descending fifth. upwards reaching two eight notes, arrive on a new chord and repeat the pattern.
There are similarities to imperal march:
The last two eight notes of each bar - not identical, but same contour (like the part of Rey's theme mentioned by IvanP)
The harmonies - g minor to Eb major, i to VI (inverted). If it were i to vi (minor!) that would be an absolute dead giveaway, so it's just a hint or possibility. At this point.
http://imgur.com/f7muHwH
 
It repeats in the flutes, and as the phrase ends, the brass enters with a new idea. and this one is 100% vader. It has the dotted rhythm, it has the flat vi minor chord on beat 4. It has the low brass. There is no way that this is not vader. 100% vader.
http://imgur.com/NSHLIzS
 
The horn has a transition bar (maybe a fragmented alteration of Luke's original theme, but less signficant) and comes back with the Jedi Steps melody. The horn plays it once then repeats it down the octave and it gets considerably darker and more menacing.
after that, the force theme enters and we know how it goes.
 
So that's the vader, now where did I get Yoda?
The opening of yoda's theme is gentle pulsing quarter note chords, about the same tempo, with harp flourishes in the background. Very similar texture but different harmonies.
The contour of yoda's melody: descending major triad on the first three beats, then a higher note on beat four leading to a chord change on the next bar.
The contour of Jedi Steps melody: descending perfect fifth (quarter note, half note) on the first three beats, then two higher eight notes on beat four leading to a chord change on the next bar.
The contours are not identical, but comparable. The harmonies are different (Yoda I to II major, Jedi Steps i to VI6 major). There could be something, but that's not very compelling in itself. There are slightly stronger similarities when you look at Yoda's death from RotJ, but it still feels like grasping at straws.
http://imgur.com/rmoiJFf
 
Next similarity, and this is the one that grabs me. The two bar vader quote is a similar rhythmic pattern to the second part of Yoda's theme, with the dotted figure on each downbeat, and in both cases it shows a marked change in character from the first part of the theme. In Yoda's case it gets considerably brighter and more jubilant, but in Jedi Steps it goes the opposite direction. Sad and plaintive sinks deep into menacing darkness.
http://imgur.com/jlyqYz4
 
Yoda meets vader. Does this get used elsewhere in the movie? It kinda sounds like it could be a generic evil/mystery motif whenever there's a shot of the imperial fleet or starkiller, but I don't think it is. It could just be the mystery of the situation. A hooded figure, a mythological figure, standing alone on an island being approached by a girl who has only heard the legends.
 
and one more thing, is there any Rey in here? I'm struggling to see it if there, is except for one thing. The tremolo'd harmonies between the first ands econd phrase of the Jedi Steps melody. g minor, and the strings move, and they seem to go to a sus2 type chord, or an incomplete ii with tonic pedal, or whatever you want to call it. G minor -> G A C -> G minor. That's the same as the vibes/piano riff in Rey's theme, the one that sounds a bit like Dies Irae. The upper two voices are moving in thirds and the bottom voice pedals on the tonic, leading to that exact chord pattern. It could be on purpose, or it could just be there because it sounds nice (it really does)
 
Has anyone spotted any other uses of this thematic material in the movie, besides the final scene?
 
The thing is, I feel like it's missing connections to the original Luke theme. Maybe it's not him, maybe it's the island/temple they are standing on. But the whole movie leads up to finding Skywalker, not just finding some temple.
 

I think we will have a new Luke centred theme. The "Luke, rebel hero" theme has sort of been repurposed for all rebel heroes, and I don't think it fits the new Luke. He'll need a new "Luke, jedi master" theme. I'm looking at Jedi Steps. It's probably more about Luke than Rey.
 
It's a powerful moment of music (possibly best in the movie) and yet it only appears at the very end. I expect it'll become a major theme in the next movies, now that Luke is back (is he coming back? or is this his Dagobah and he's not going anywhere?)
 
Are we seeing a merging of elements of Yoda and Vader in this?
 
Here's a sketched transcription of Jedi Steps (it's not perfect, especially inner voices, but it's the rough idea). I stopped before the force theme entrance, because that part is obvious.
http://imgur.com/rvT4ppe
 
Opening is clearly a transformation of Luke's theme, played slower, a few notes left out (every second note, in fact)
If you need to see:
http://imgur.com/KENwdIU
 
We get some gentle marching G minor chords in the vibrophone, with little runs in the background. Very pensive, but indicative of marching or walking. (She is climbing the steps - true)
Somewhat evocative of the imperial march. (just imagine the 16th triplets after 3 and on 4)
 
Our jedi steps melody is simple and evocative. Descending fifth. upwards reaching two eight notes, arrive on a new chord and repeat the pattern.
There are similarities to imperal march:
The last two eight notes of each bar - not identical, but same contour (like the part of Rey's theme mentioned by IvanP)
The harmonies - g minor to Eb major, i to VI (inverted). If it were i to vi (minor!) that would be an absolute dead giveaway, so it's just a hint or possibility. At this point.
http://imgur.com/f7muHwH
 
It repeats in the flutes, and as the phrase ends, the brass enters with a new idea. and this one is 100% vader. It has the dotted rhythm, it has the flat vi minor chord on beat 4. It has the low brass. There is no way that this is not vader. 100% vader.
http://imgur.com/NSHLIzS
 
The horn has a transition bar (maybe a fragmented alteration of Luke's original theme, but less signficant) and comes back with the Jedi Steps melody. The horn plays it once then repeats it down the octave and it gets considerably darker and more menacing.
after that, the force theme enters and we know how it goes.
 
So that's the vader, now where did I get Yoda?
The opening of yoda's theme is gentle pulsing quarter note chords, about the same tempo, with harp flourishes in the background. Very similar texture but different harmonies.
The contour of yoda's melody: descending major triad on the first three beats, then a higher note on beat four leading to a chord change on the next bar.
The contour of Jedi Steps melody: descending perfect fifth (quarter note, half note) on the first three beats, then two higher eight notes on beat four leading to a chord change on the next bar.
The contours are not identical, but comparable. The harmonies are different (Yoda I to II major, Jedi Steps i to VI6 major). There could be something, but that's not very compelling in itself. There are slightly stronger similarities when you look at Yoda's death from RotJ, but it still feels like grasping at straws.
http://imgur.com/rmoiJFf
 
Next similarity, and this is the one that grabs me. The two bar vader quote is a similar rhythmic pattern to the second part of Yoda's theme, with the dotted figure on each downbeat, and in both cases it shows a marked change in character from the first part of the theme. In Yoda's case it gets considerably brighter and more jubilant, but in Jedi Steps it goes the opposite direction. Sad and plaintive sinks deep into menacing darkness.
http://imgur.com/jlyqYz4
 
Yoda meets vader. Does this get used elsewhere in the movie? It kinda sounds like it could be a generic evil/mystery motif whenever there's a shot of the imperial fleet or starkiller, but I don't think it is. It could just be the mystery of the situation. A hooded figure, a mythological figure, standing alone on an island being approached by a girl who has only heard the legends.
 
and one more thing, is there any Rey in here? I'm struggling to see it if there, is except for one thing. The tremolo'd harmonies between the first ands econd phrase of the Jedi Steps melody. g minor, and the strings move, and they seem to go to a sus2 type chord, or an incomplete ii with tonic pedal, or whatever you want to call it. G minor -> G A C -> G minor. That's the same as the vibes/piano riff in Rey's theme, the one that sounds a bit like Dies Irae. The upper two voices are moving in thirds and the bottom voice pedals on the tonic, leading to that exact chord pattern. It could be on purpose, or it could just be there because it sounds nice (it really does)
 
Has anyone spotted any other uses of this thematic material in the movie, besides the final scene?
 
The thing is, I feel like it's missing connections to the original Luke theme. Maybe it's not him, maybe it's the island/temple they are standing on. But the whole movie leads up to finding Skywalker, not just finding some temple.