NL197
-
Posts
522 -
Joined
-
Days Won
1
Posts posted by NL197
-
-
1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:
So the LLL Braveheart is incomplete? Straight to the wastebin!
It is incomplete, but not because of source music.
It's missing the film version of "Betrayal and Desolation", where the finale of the cue with the choir leads into a synth string passage, but on album has a more complete resolution to it as the choir continues on.
Very small piece of the score missing, but nonetheless, the score is incomplete without it. -
The opening to the LLL cue "Trapped on 'D' Deck" on the Titanic 20th anniversary album has the same two notes Zimmer used as his Batman motif. It's repeated in the butchered score for the film, notably when you see the first set of firework / flares go up in the sky and it then focuses on Jack looking out the sinking porthole, and again when Cal stuffs Murdoch's pocket with cash.
-
Digital releases aren't a bad idea, but they do literally nothing for the labels. In fact, if the Titanic 20th anniversary album were ever to be released that way, LLL wouldn't make a cent off of it. Paramount and Sony would.
-
Braveheart's score was treated with immense respect in the film, and you'll barely notice any significant editing.
Such a great film, and (to me) one that despite the intensity doesn't seem so self-important and full of itself as say, Gladiator. It has a healthy sense of humor about it.
It's still the best looking Blu-ray I've ever seen, and I can only imagine just how much more improved the UHD version would be with those lush greens popping in HDR, but that's not in the cards for a while. Improving on what is to me a perfect image, I don't know how it's possible but supposedly it is!
-
1 hour ago, Thor said:
Thank you for the offer, but I think I'm fine on the TITANIC front. I might be interested in checking out the "Volume 2/Back to Titanic" concept album at some point; I think I only sampled it once years ago.
Fair enough, but I would easily say that in several places, those intended film cues are very different to what you're used to. It's really a different listen as a result.
If you're not averse to YouTube videos, listen for yourself (synced along with the film)
-
The intended film version of 'Leaving Port' is THE highlight of the LLL album for me. It's my favorite cue. The intended film version of 'Southampton' was my holy grail cue from the score, and then Leaving Port came along and usurped it.
Those celebratory moments are my favorite aspect of both the film and score. 'Southampton', 'Leaving Port' and 'Take Her To Sea, Mr. Murdoch' are my favorite cues along with the trailer. The chorus was always my favorite.
Thor, I have to ask you something:
If I were to take the original album program, and replace the OST cues with their corresponding film version cues, so the program itself remains the same, would you listen to it?
I feel this score is a special case of being able to 'have your cake and eat it too' with enough of these cues being different that you could preserve the album presentation but hear some of the unreleased music.
If you're at all interested, I'll send that your way and I'd love your feedback on it. -
without a 5.1 mix that's not drowned in sound effects, that's just impossible to do properly. It's the same thing though, any time the synth choir plays mostly on its own there's very little else playing along.
-
Yeah it's just the center channel of the 5.1 mix (DTS CD and SACD).
Play a cue like Southampton like that and most of it is snare drum, bell and occasionally woodwinds for the choir parts. -
If you used a fan-made mix of Rose without the other elements, it was likely from a source of mine. Years ago I made a breakdown of the OST and provided the various channel configurations as separate albums - a 'surround channel' album, a 'center channel' album, etc. Been at this a while.
If you're willing, I'd like to hear what you did with "Murdoch" since mine was a mix of the film edit and the bass line from the film stem, since it was thankfully just the ending that I needed and that's what the film stem had free of other elements. -
For the custom I did, I put the bass back into "Take Her to sea", but without the film edit shortening the passage, and used the pipe-less version of "Unable to Stay" while fixing (as best I could) the awkward edit in the left-right bouncing rhythm effect. I definitely prefer the film mix of "Rose" to all the versions released of that cue.
-
While Herman kept things vague, it was surprising what he had to say about Horner's time on the film.
-
1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:
You'd think those producers would understand that an interview would be appreciated by a lot of us.
Exactly. It's not worth it to talk about a score deemed impossible to expand for 20 years?
1 hour ago, TitanicFan2018 said:My guess is that the first example (jointy95's recreated "A Building Panic" film edit where he used LLL material along with the film stem) is likely the film mix of "Hard To Starboard", and I could probably be right. The low brass phrasing in "Hard To Starboard" (Alternate) on disc three of the LLL album is exactly the same as in the OST version. NL, correct me if I'm wrong on some things.
That film stem whatchamacallit is the film mix of the score, albeit JAC Redford's recreations of the film edits.
Obviously you're talking about the edits of a certain final fantastical shrine like place....though personally I think the whole idea of recreating the film edits are beyond awful as a listening experience for the majority of the score. But I do indeed think it's not a case of different recordings but merely mixing for different uses, such as dialing out synths for the film edit discussed a while ago (the diamond / ' We are Royalty Rose' scene). Bump up the strings in one passage, mute the tuba in another, take out the snare drums every other bar, whatever the case might be. The performances would be the same, but 'sound' different because of the mixer fudging around with it. I'd have to get back to you on the similarities between the two versions. I don't have it on hand to compare at the moment. -
Everything you're describing is mixing. The mixer could do that easily to craft the music around the needs of the surrounding sound effects and dialogue. d
No one has, at least on here or FSM, commented on the specifics of the album like that (Promenade / Butterfly comb)
We attempted to interview them about it ala JWFAN but never replied as far as I know. -
Unrelated but Thor, did you ever read our interview with Striped Pyjamas director Mark Herman:
http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/exclusive-interview-mark-herman-boy-striped-pajamas/
It's quite a good insight into the making of the score. -
One could say the same about the alternate "Death of Titanic", but I don't think it's necessarily a different recording as in different performance, but rather just different mixing.
I see the themes as follows:
"Tragedy":
Main Title / A Promise Kept (film version)"Main Theme" / the "TITANIC" theme:
To The Keldysh / Relics and Treasures / Southampton (strings) and subsequent cues of the grandeur of the ship
I feel this theme (my favorite) is representative of two aspects:
The main theme melody is more of Titanic itself, and the synth chorus in Southampton, Leaving Port and Take Her To Sea, Mr. Murdoch are more of the excitement of the people aboard, especially Jack in the latter two cues."Mystery":
Rose Revealed / Distant Memories / My Drawing / An Ocean of Memories
"Love Theme":First Sighting / Rose / The Portrait and subsequent cues of that nature
"Ocean" or whatever name might fit for the darker, ominous music for the sea:
2 1/2 Miles Down / Rose's Suicide Attempt / Hymn To The Sea
Also, 2 1/2 Miles Down is one of the most interesting and fascinating pieces of music Horner wrote for the film. I love it. -
On 7/29/2018 at 1:36 AM, Chen G. said:
Both Braveheart and Titanic had two distributors: Fox for North America, Paramount for the International market.
With Braveheart its especially noteworthy because Horner wrote a prelude that only appears over the Paramount logos.
You have that reversed.
Fox was international for both films, Paramount was North America for both films. That's why Horner's score appears as it should over the Paramount logo.
-
-
6 hours ago, Richard said:
Was the rope symbolic of his marriage?
He had been separated for quite a number of years, so I don't think so. -
I've not had any confirmation but I had always assumed his earring was worn in place of his wedding ring. After a point it went from an actual ring to a stud.
Also he had a tattoo of a rope around his wrist. -
On 7/9/2018 at 12:22 PM, Loert said:
Depends on what you mean by "better".
If you mean better in terms of compositional technique, then the answer is no.
But if you mean better in terms of expressing raw emotion then the answer is also no.
Williams leaves me almost devoid of emotion more often than not.
Complex, recognizable, but emotional? Not to me it isn't. To each their own.
-
7 hours ago, Richard said:
Very much so.
I've just clicked on Stu's link.
As much as I love his music, there's something about that smug, self-satisfied, oh-so-superior smirk, on his boat-race, that makes me want punch Horner's lights out.
He composed great music, but he came across as an arrogant prick.
It’s funny, because I’ve come to find over the last few years (sadly not first hand as I couldn’t meets him myself) that he and I shared a very similar personality and I despise arrogant people. It’s actually one word I would not use to describe him because a lot of what he had to say was born out of both a sense of keeping himself as vague and distant from others as possible, and being frustrated enough to just tell it like it is when having to talk about dealing with other people. He was not a social person and had trouble connecting to others, and as someone very much like that I could see where he came from. If you ever met me in person you would probably get a similar impression and I’m not a world famous composer.
More than half the things people say about these guys in places like this goes far beyond “arrogant prick” but no one cares because no one here is a public figure. No anonymity for these guys whose work and sometimes lives are torn apart and dissected and bitched about online.
-
- Popular Post
9 hours ago, Disco Stu said:I always thought it was weird that the main Horner fan site
http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/
doesn't have a forum. They do have user generated stuff, like reviews and comments, though.
That's because the site was an outgrowth of the old "Hornershrine" forums I used to co-run. The discussion fell silent for the most part, and one of the key members of the boards started up the new site, gathered several of us to help make it more accessible to non-French and Spanish speaking readers, and we've been off and running ever since. The main reason the boards were shut down was that at the time, forums were less of a place to discuss compared to Facebook pages beyond here, FSM and Filmtracks' looney tunes scoreboard.
(edited to add)
I can also say that James Horner himself was both aware of the site and allowed the use of his name as the domain. His one stipulation was that the site use "film music" so no one would confuse it was some personal site of his. Sort of 'officially unofficial', and when he died, thankfully members of his team and his own family continue to support our efforts. -
Horner will always be my favorite composer, and I've always believed his dramatic and emotional instincts to be second to none, but I don't find anyone "better" than anyone else.
Of course Williams and Zimmer fans think their guy is "better" than everyone else, but that's fandom for ya.
-
The bells are likely sound effects for the trailer, not part of that unknown music.
Braveheart vs. Titanic - which score do you like the most?
in General Discussion
Posted
It is not.
It is however, on my version
As a loving tribute to James Horner (the album is dedicated to him), and as a listening experience....
Absolutely.