Remco

@Lord Montague What about the effect of the hall and the recording engineer or the mix on the music... It's not all about the players. Claiming that the Vienna Phil were more inspired and had more ambition than the Berliners is in my opinion a disservice to the Berlin Phil. They gave their all to JW.

Please learn the difference between 'not playing together' and 'rubato'.

Rogue one, 100%. Although I'd say I very much like the movie, not really love it.

God, I knew this was going to happen. I think it's telling something that when a conductor gets in his 80s, he can't keep up the tempi in pieces that are supposed to have a stable tempo, and by the way that have a stable tempo in the recordings that he has done in the past. I'll refrain from further discussion. By the way, I absolutely love this album!

Probably can't convince you, but I think that's absolute nonsense. Then what about Scherzo for X-Wings on the TFA OST. Or even Scherzo for Motorcycle on the Berlin album ends slower than it starts.

Surely, but sometimes they'll decide to just 'play', because they know what the music should sound like and what the conductor wants. Like this perfect example:

What does it say to you that JW used to conduct the piece way faster than he does now? Also, you're not quite right as he starts at 106 but it starts slowing down after a couple of bars and by the end of the piece the tempo is 96. I think because of his age, his kind of internal metronome just isn't as good anymore. Of course people will hate me for saying, but this started about 10 years ago and can be heard in so many pieces that are supposed to have a stable tempo, where things just slow down as pieces develop. The Berlin players seem to have been aware of this and took a lot initiative to keep on playing with fresh energy. Interestingly, he seems to have no problems with slow pieces, or pieces that have a fluctuating tempo.

Not in the Netherlands. People here treat it as a concert!

Hmmmm that could very well be true but, how do we look at film music concerts, with orchestras surviving only because these actually sell out multiple nights in a row? Or is it just that even less people enjoy classical music?

It's surely possible, however, what I kind of forgot is that it is way harder to do edits when the music has to be synced with video. And since the audio release has to be identical to the video release, that's probably why they couldn't do many crazy edits (same with Vienna).

A good editor would be able to retain the take and replace that note – but tbh, I somehow hadn’t noticed it until it was pointed out here.

I have heard them in Amsterdam. But whatever. When the Nimbus 2000 recording comes out, maybe you'd like to give a critique on what exactly is sub-par about it.

I sort of get the point, but I can’t help but feel it comes of as a little whiny given the extraordinary quality of this orchestra including the woodwinds, whoever they were. They were absolutely world class and I have heard a lot of live orchestras.

Yeah it's pretty bad - but most of all a fuck-up of the editor.

So your problem is the alleged snobbery towards JW, I suppose? Or the quality of the orchestra?

But what exactly is the problem here? The fact you would’ve liked to hear these players or the assumed snobbery that is underneath it? Whatever your ‘de facto’ Berlin Phil is, I think what really matters is that the institute itself invited Williams. The orchestra can take on different forms.

I understand some of you would’ve liked to hear some of the more famous soloists, but still. Imagine that when some of these academists get approached to play in the orchestra, they stop calling it the Berlin Phil. That makes no sense at all – they are playing in the Berlin Phil from that moment on. And you’re listening to the Berlin Phil! Should they rename the orchestra also everytime that an older generation retires? This is not how an orchestra works.

I like the sound of the hall and the Viennese horns, but the Berliners played it better.

I'm happy that they did actually put in that work, unlike the recording of another concert.

Thinking about the program, I think one of the most succesful ones I’ve ever seen is the LA Phil celebration in 2014. There, they truly celebrated JW the musician in a broad sense and it was less about crowd pleasers, even though it had Darth Vader on stage during the encore.

Thinking of it, you're very right.

I wonder what's with the more 'intellectual' film score enthusiasts that they will often leave out Williams in favor of Herrmann, Morricone, etc. ? I have a suspicion that they see him as somehow less artistic and more a business man type of composer but I think that's very naive.

I agree, but I don’t see a reason to get offended by the idea of JW doing a Waldbühne concert, or having academists play instead of some principals. Especially when they were as good as they were!

@Fabulin I really think you’re interpreting a lot of neutral signs as negative.

Of course you’re totally right but at the same time I value so much that with JW I can be sure that he is solely responsible for everything I hear, well, for about 99%. I suppose he’d just turn down the offer if he couldn’t do it in a week.