Chen G.

That's the advantage of being exposed to them at an older age, like me. I watched them with some existing knowledge of what they were, but I had no idea what the critical consensus on any of them was when I watched them. I remember watching The Phantom Menace and thinking "well, that wasn't very good", a feeling only exacerbated by watching Attack of the Clones. Things improved significantly with Revenge of the Sith and - in most regards - even more so in the segue to the original Star Wars, and absolutely peaked with Empire Strikes Back. It was in a completely different zone. Than Return of the Jedi worked reasonably well on first viewing, as did The Force Awakens.
 
On subsequent viewings (I always watch a film twice to settle my opinion of it) the first two prequels became much worst, as did Return of the Jedi. I could even see the seams in the original Star Wars, particularly in terms of 70s wierdness and the level of the acting.

I don't think Star Wars is the pinnacle of movie music, as much as I don't think Wagner's Ring Cycle is the greatest achievement in opera. The comparison I made is in terms of scale and span of lifetime spent by a single composer working on it. In this sense, to find something akin to what Williams did we must look to Wagner and really not much else. The similarities end there, though. I would never do a stylistic comparison, because there are more differences than similarities between Williams' Star Wars and Wagner's Ring. 
 
Yes, Shore's Middle Earth scores are a great achievement too (of course!), but imho it's a very different beast in many regards. Perhaps the link with Wagner is stronger than Star Wars in terms of analogies and narrative threads, but musically is truly very different.

What I mean is that Shore uses all these "ethnic" winds, string and percussion instruments; Wagner uses alphorns, elaborate thunder machines, and several brass instruments crafted solely for the purpose of his operas. Williams mostly sticks to a western orchestra and the occasional chorus, and some jazz instruments for the diegetic pieces. The variety, especially in Shore's work, really makes it feel expansive: like a rich tapestry.
 
Again, not trying to prove one is superior to the other, just to temper with the assuredness with which people are crowning this as the pinnacle of movie scoring and one that "is rivaled only by Wagner's Ring Cycle" etc. Tp that I say: No, there is another.

And Shore's Middle Earth work.
 
If anything, the Wagner cycle is the shortest of the bunch, but also the most leitmotivically dense. Williams' is about on par with Shore in terms of hours of music, but his is by far the least thematically dense of the three, and the least expansive and varied in terms of instrumentation.

Like this post if you want JW to do a cameo for SW Ep. IX.
 
EDIT: By popular demand, here's the real petition. Spread the good word!
 
EDIT: We've just passed 1200 signatures!

But its a valid complaint, whether it's one derived from the music itself, or from the way it was mixed.
 
The point of leitmotivic writing is that you see something onstage or onscreen as the leitmotif is playing for the first one or two times, and come to associate an element (apparent or underlying) from those moments with the leitmotif. As it continues to occur, it gathers more and more associative power.
 
If you can't hear the music, no matter the reason, that associative power of the music is completely lost, even as you listen to it again on the album.

Didn't he record just as much for Return of the Jedi? and even more for The Force Awakens?
 
Also, is Williams misremembering when he says: "“Rey has a theme, Kylo Ren has a theme, Finn has one, Rose has one." Either he's refering to that "pursuit" ostinato from The Force Awakens (which I don't recall at all in this), or he is talking about new material from this film which relates to Finn, which again I certainly can't point to, or he's misremembering slightly.
 
Interesting that he doesn't mention Holdo as having a theme, I'd say it's a case for naming that motif as "desperation", but than ex silentio isn't my favorite way of proving a point.

Actually, no, you're quite wrong. The Last Jedi was received favorably among the average audience (see: CinemaScore, ComScore, and SurveyMonkey). The only people who are sorely butthurt about the film are the fanboys who say that it didn't "feel like the average Star Wars movie" and the fact that it didn't go exactly the way they had blueprinted it in their heads. You, in fact, are the minority, not I.
 
And even if the majority of fans disliked Last Jedi more than Phantom Menace (which will likely never happen), that wouldn't change the fact that the latter is an objectively poorly made film, with a nonsensical plot, incoherent character focus, and amateurish dialogue. The flaws of Last Jedi, while there are many, pale when compared to the innumerous problems with Phantom Menace.
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Very interesting reading!
 
We also have a reference from Williams to the thematic material, including Rose's theme and what he calls a motif for Ach-to.
 
It also seems the size of the orchestra was increased after all: 101 pieces, as opposed to 85-piece in the previous one. My guess is added percussion, a fuller string roster and high woodwinds.

The only ring in the Star Wars prequels is the anus from which they were expelled.
 
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this universe operating on the premise that not every single person can indeed use The Force?

To each his own, I suppose.
 
I enjoy analysing music that I enjoy much in the same way I enjoy analysing the craft of filmmaking on movies that I love. And, since Star Wars is a leitmotivic piece, it begs that treatment, for me.

That line about Obi Wan killing Luke's father wasn't just the line that Vader said to Luke onset, it was also the revelation that the original story outline and script drafts had planned for this film.

It's strange that the prequels could be so cheesy when TLJ was the first film with milk. 

Oh, I loved that statement of Luke and Leia. Works wonders in the picture!

The Force Awakens is, I think, a more polished and certainly better paced film.
 
This film is more ambitious, and much, much more visually striking, but also has some bad composite and CG shots, serious pacing issues throughout, and a lot of the characters don't feel nearly as compelling, which also extends to the level of their acting and dialogue: this includes all the baddies (Snoke, Hux, Phasma), DJ and, to some extent, Rose.
 
I also think a lot of the aesthetic of the set-design are a departure from the worn-down, "used" look of Star Wars, which The Force Awakens did adhere to, and more of a step in the glossy look of the prequels: namely, Canto Bight and Snoke's chambers.
 
I feel like Rian Johnson lacked restraint in terms of action and stakes (to the point that the film is already so climactic with the ramming of Snoke's ship that it feels like it could come to close, which it doesn't) and in terms of his attempts at surprising the audience: really, all you need is one surprising twist at the mid-point (Snoke's demise) and that's it. You don't need to completely subvert expectation in every single turn.
 
I enjoyed it well enough. But I do think people can't help but feel disappointed at what they hoped would be a truly outstanding film, and wasn't.

Come now, I think @Chen G. has contributed some great arguments here. The same goes for @gkgyver whom I think has been a bit abrasive the last few days, but a member whom I've often agreed with on a range of topics. I like this range of personalities on here, it isn't a vanilla forum and no matter how much I disagree with someone I would never consider using the ignore function - even for obvious trolls like Skyy38!
 
I think the best thing to do is to take a step away from this forum and the computer and do something else, then come back and read, respond, laugh, cry, cringe or destroy all of your equipment, or all of those things!

Humor is so incredibly subjective, that I don't look so much into whether a joke landed or not. Personally, I laughed my ass off of the reaching out and Yoda's "page-turners" remarks.
 
What matters about humor in a film like this is how well its integrated into the narrative. Done right, it can be used to leverage suspense and darkness. For that to work, it needs to be spontaneous and understated. Something like Poe's hang-up routine may be funny to some, but I think anyone can see that it doesn't really fit into the opening "James Bond" action scene of this film.
 
Other jokes I would just cut for the sake of the runtime. I mean, Chewbacca's run-in with the Porgs feels like an in-universe commercial break. There is a cutaway to the Caretakers (I believe in the cours of Rey's training, a rock is dislodged at their cart) that I rolled my eyes at, which is to say nothing of how detailed this film is with Luke's daily routine: WHY did I need to see him mil that, that...that thing? WHY?

The Force Awakens is, I think, a more polished and certainly better paced film.
 
This film is more ambitious, and much, much more visually striking, but also has some bad composite and CG shots, serious pacing issues throughout, and a lot of the characters don't feel nearly as compelling, which also extends to the level of their acting and dialogue: this includes all the baddies (Snoke, Hux, Phasma), DJ and, to some extent, Rose.
 
I also think a lot of the aesthetic of the set-design are a departure from the worn-down, "used" look of Star Wars, which The Force Awakens did adhere to, and more of a step in the glossy look of the prequels: namely, Canto Bight and Snoke's chambers.
 
I feel like Rian Johnson lacked restraint in terms of action and stakes (to the point that the film is already so climactic with the ramming of Snoke's ship that it feels like it could come to close, which it doesn't) and in terms of his attempts at surprising the audience: really, all you need is one surprising twist at the mid-point (Snoke's demise) and that's it. You don't need to completely subvert expectation in every single turn.
 
I enjoyed it well enough. But I do think people can't help but feel disappointed at what they hoped would be a truly outstanding film, and wasn't.

Yes, wasted through incompetent directing of actors on behalf of mr. Colombus.
 
This and its sequel are possibly the worst Richard Harris has ever been on camera.
 
The only one who is doing his own thing is Alan Rickman and even he is laying it way too thick.

Nah.
 
The Christopher Colombus entries are the lesser of the whole bunch, and by a mile.

I want episode IX to end in a conclusive note, like Return of the King, so it feels like no other film can come after it.

and put it in retrogrades, and invert it! No-one will know.

That would be cool, but my guess is that Han's theme will be in a minor key unlike the Asteroid Field's opening melody, which is major-based. It's interesting to compare good-guy themes from the OT and ST so far in terms of whether they are based on a major or minor tonic, especially since the ST is closely modeled on the OT:
 
Original Trilogy
- Luke's Theme - Major
- Leia's Theme - Major
- Rebel Fanfare - Major
- Force Theme - Minor
- Han Solo and the Princess - Major
- Yoda - Major
- Ewoks - Major
- Luke and Leia - Major
 
Sequel Trilogy (so far)
- Rey's Theme - Minor
- Poe's Theme - Minor
- March of the Resistance - Minor
- Luke in Exile - Minor
- Desperation (of the Resistance) - Minor
- Rose - Major
 
There's a very clear trend of having the primary good-guy themes in the sequel trilogy almost entirely minor (only Rose's Theme is major, no doubt due to her childlike innocence) whereas in the original trilogy, they are very much the opposite - almost all major (only the Force Theme is minor, no doubt due to its function as a "struggle" theme). This change from major to minor is probably due to the change in the tone of films nowadays. So many films of the 80s have an optimistic tone whereas today they are much darker and in many ways pessimistic, and I think Williams is reflecting this trend in his music for the heroes.
 
Anyway, I thought this would be interesting to share. So yes, I'm guessing Han's Theme will be in a minor key.

Than again, half the people here see dozens and dozens of supposed "motifs" that Williams never ever intended for, too.

James
Newton
Howard.