Chen G.

Unless Powell is going to pull a Giacchino on us and use multiple themes from Williams catalogue in inappropriate ways.

It's not.
 
Not quite. For all my gripes with the score, I don't remember too much in the way of thematic inappropriateness in that score.

Unless Powell is going to pull a Giacchino on us and use multiple themes from Williams catalogue in inappropriate ways.

Indeed, although I hear they'd been very aggressive about their share in tickets with The Last Jedi. But its a complex thing: its different for each cinema, and changes on a weekly-basis.
 
Also, in making such a deal, obviously one doesn't wish to just break even, or make a small profit. Although again, I'm not for a split-second thinking this wouldn't turn out to be extremely profitable for Disney. Its one of those things that they knew would make them money forever from the moment they gave it the go.

Indeed, although I hear they'd been very aggressive about their share in tickets with The Last Jedi. But its a complex thing: its different for each cinema, and changes on a weekly-basis.
 
Also, in making such a deal, obviously one doesn't wish to just break even, or make a small profit. Although again, I'm not for a split-second thinking this wouldn't turn out to be extremely profitable for Disney. Its one of those things that they knew would make them money forever from the moment they gave it the go.

Auteur theory doesn't define directors based on how prolific they are. An auteur isn't necessarily a seasoned "big-shot" Hollywood director.
 
It applies to any director who has enough control over the production and enough of a personal style, that the finished film feels like his product. The Last Jedi is just that - its a Rian Johnson movie.

And yet, Rian Johnson is just that....

Of course that's what he wanted, but we ended up with more than that. When I hear that moment in the music, it takes me back to Mustafar for a split-second.

There are just too many of these subversions, and quite a few of them are packed together. The midpoint is where you'd normally have somekind of twist, and at the midpoint of this film we have Snoke's death, and the reveal involving Holdo's motives, and all of this hot off of the heels of the reveal of what went down between Luke and Kylo. And once the midpoint action setpiece is over, we dive into the third act and we have yet another plot subversion with Luke's astral projection.
 
Its just too much.

Yeah, that's what Star Wars needs, more callbacks.

Well, technically they still are bag-pipes; just not Great Highland Bagpipes.
 
And yes, they're a beautiful instrument. Much more lyrical than their highland cousins.
 
That said, their affiliation to Titanic other than "James Cameron loved listening to Braveheart" is a tenuous one.

In Rian Johnson's head, there is an obvious reason: to surprise the audience! And he milks a series of surprises out of it: 
Turning her from antagonistic to Poe to being the character that performs the most heroic act of the film. Allowing for the surprise of Poe's mutiny attempt. On a meta level, to play with the audience's assumption that she will replace Leia. Again in a meta level, to play with the convention that the authority figure who acts like a jerk is the bad guy, and the young can-do contrarian is the good guy.

It felt unearned because, as with 90% of this film, it was played up to surprise the audience. Surprises only go so far. Really; think about it: how many outright twists and surprises are in your favorite films? I bet not half of the amount of surprises in this.

No thank you! I like how little there is of C3PO in here: He is the most annoying character from the first trilogy.
 
What little there is of him here is still too much.

Well, technically they still are bag-pipes; just not Great Highland Bagpipes.
 
And yes, they're a beautiful instrument. Much more lyrical than their highland cousins.
 
That said, their affiliation to Titanic other than "James Cameron loved listening to Braveheart" is a tenuous one.

No thank you! I like how little there is of C3PO in here: He is the most annoying character from the first trilogy.
 
What little there is of him here is still too much.

Shore works in a somwewhat different idiom to Williams, so its not a fair comparison to make; and even if it were, two wrongs don't make a right.
 
In regards to Shore, even when he writes a lot of new thematic material for a second installment, you don't necessarily hear him boast how each film in the series is based predominantly on new themes, as Williams does, because his scores are based on continuous weaving of material, new and old, through the fabric of the score. The third score of each of his trilogies, in particular, is based very little on new material and more on "pitting" his existing themes against each other, and bringing the development of the themes to a culmination. He also constructs his themes so that new themes are formed through the development, combination or fragmentation of existing themes, etc..
 
If this was a third installment and if Williams did all of this - I'd be content. But, unfortunately, it isn't, and he doesn't - so I'm not.
 
As for being tiresome - I find that it is only disagreement that generates a discussion that's worth having. Otherwise, it will be a thread of replies that are just variations on "great."

Yes, they do approach these films differently, I was just trying to make the point that despite Shore treating his trilogies as several parts of a big whole, his second pieces in said trilogies still set themselves apart more than TLJ sets itself apart from TFA. With the different approach Williams prides himself on, TLJ should set itself apart from TFA way clearer than TTT sets itself apart from FotR.
 
Desolation Of Smaug I think is not a fair comparison because the whole writing/orchestration dynamic changed from AUJ, so naturally DoS feels different.
 
See, I'm thinking the other way around. Yes, the primary function of a score is in the Film, and how it works with the images. But beyond that, I think I can attest pretty much every film composer a firm grasp on dramatic film scoring, so it's pretty much a given that 95% of all scores accompany their films just fine and how they should. I have heard so many film music in my life that I look for more than that, for a musical experience that can hold its own, without needing the cinematic images to amplify it, or to give it a reason to exist.
I feel watching a movie before listening to the soundtrack on its own manipulates your initial impression of the music too much.
From the perspective of a music lover, the movie should only add more meaning to the music, the music shouldn't entirely depend on it.
Just like in opera, where the vocals and texts are certainly essential to tell a story in detail, and add to the music, but where the music doesn't depend on them to tell a story on its own.
 
And there are certainly various degrees to which scores are operatic, and of course you don't need to listen to every score independently from the film, most scores neither need that, nor would it be greatly rewarding, but Star Wars is among the most operatic subjects you can get, so I think the question whether it works in the film shouldn't even be an issue.
 
And there are scores that can convey a coherent sense of the subject, and be exciting, without needing the film at all. A fan of Spider-Man or Batman can probably listen to Danny Elfman's soundtracks without having seen the films even once in order to love it. 
 
Which ironically is the problem with TLJ, I really think you need to be a fan of Star Wars or Williams specifically in order to love it thoroughly. I can't see this one having nearly the same mainstream appeal as even the prequel scores.

I can't judge the film mix because I have seen neither TFA nor TLJ. I'm judging this as an album experience. Williams scores are usually always the best album experiences you could get. And to be fair, I never heard a Star Wars score after I watched the film. Even the OT Soundtracks I heard before watching the movies because I was into Soundtracks way before I bothered to watch any of the Star Wars films on DVD.
You like making comparisons to Shore it seems; and if I compare TFA and TLJ to FotR and TTT, I never once felt while watching/hearing TTT that I'm listening to a repackaged FotR the way I get that feeling in TLJ. And TTT is as much of an immediate story continuation as TLJ apparently is. Yet, while being unmistakably written in the same vein as FotR, immediately feels somewhat different in colour, also because we are within 10 minutes of the film introduced to the grand new Rohan theme, which is immediately recognizable, and not comparable to Holdo's theme, which to me is only recognizable once it reaches its last 4-6 notes. And the movie even starts with a grand setting of the Ring theme, in a way it was never heard in FotR, so it immediately feels fresh.

I really think there are two sides to this box office debate.
 
On one hand, obviously the film is a huge financial success. Denying that is just silly. There’s no way these aren’t good numbers.
 
On the other hand, I think it’s misguided to think that Disney isn’t taking note of, and is concerned about, the negative backlash from a significant part of the fan base. They certainly are. Those fans need to be there when interest isn’t skyrocketing. Disney relies on those fans for all kinds of intangible things in terms of maintaining buzz and keeping interest in the franchise high, but most importantly for repeat business. It’s for the latter reason I believe Disney, while no doubt pleased with TLJs take, nonetheless have to be concerned about the significant box office drop off.
 
And yeah, I do believe they’re likely reconsidering handing the keys to the kingdom to Johnson for a new trilogy. They are definitely going to need the fans along for any story outside the main Saga, and right now it seems to me goodwill towards Rain’s vision isn’t exactly high.

Alex, you have seen the Prequels right? Shockingly incompetent and dull films. Yet each made tons of money.
 
Star Wars is a huge franchise, regardless of its quality....it will make money!
 
There's nothing in film history like it. Bond comes closest in financial reliability.

But its appearances are center-pieces of the score. Its also very cleverly derived from "Across the Stars" so it feels like you've heard it before, and more than three times.
 
And again, its not just a leitmotivic thing, its an issue of musical color, as well. The only new instrumental choice here is solo piano at the end credits, and its over before you know it.

Come on!
 
It is the most elegiac and the most operatic - and by those virtues it has more than enough of its own identity, compared to The Last Jedi. This identity isn't necessarily conveyed through Battle of the Heroes (which, I agree, isn't one of Williams' best), but more-so through the excellent lament material.

We sure hit the point of super-saturation with The Force theme, unfortunately.

Duel of the Fates, Anakin's, Darth Maul's, Qui Gon's, Jar Jar's, The Trade Federation - that's more than enough for a Williams' score. Here, there's three motifs, and maybe another one hiding somewhere but I doubt it.