Chen G.

Duel of the Fates, Anakin's, Darth Maul's, Qui Gon's, Jar Jar's, The Trade Federation - that's more than enough for a Williams' score. Here, there's three motifs, and maybe another one hiding somewhere but I doubt it.

In this respect, the backlash is missing the point because it focuses too much on what this film does with the "mechanics", so to speak, of this fictional world, where it should be focusing on the dramatic development of the story arcs.
 
This is why I think people who are criticising the backlash and saying that, when the dust settles this film will be considered great, are also missing the point: this film has NARRATIVE issues. Not just fandom-related ones. Its too long, it has at least one subplot which is entirely useless, and some of the characters don't feel fulfilled. Those are not petty criticisms, they are important drawbacks that this film unfortunately suffers from.

True, but this score is coming from a composer that has been known to base his scores on thematic material, especially for this series. Williams is the first to take pride in the size of his catalogue of themes.

In this respect, the backlash is missing the point because it focuses too much on what this film does with the "mechanics", so to speak, of this fictional world, where it should be focusing on the dramatic development of the story arcs.
 
This is why I think people who are criticising the backlash and saying that, when the dust settles this film will be considered great, are also missing the point: this film has NARRATIVE issues. Not just fandom-related ones. Its too long, it has at least one subplot which is entirely useless, and some of the characters don't feel fulfilled. Those are not petty criticisms, they are important drawbacks that this film unfortunately suffers from.

Where the hell did I say that?
 
And even you "blame" Rian Johnson for the rehash that is a large part of this score, it doesn't change the final product.
 
 
You can find creatives ways to write new thematic material to keep the score fresh. You can write new themes for existing characters that are derived from the existing themes but are nevertheless separate, signaling the character's transformation, of which this film had a lot; Finn, Poe, Luke and even Rey and Kylo could all have had new themes to co-exist with their pre-existing ones, to signal the development of their character.
 
Think about The Two Towers: on paper that fim didn't require much in the way of new themes, everything that's new about it are Rohan and the Ents, but Shore wrote over a dozen new themes, giving two new themes to Gollum, who already had a thematic identity, giving the Uruk Hai two new themes, etc...
 
In Wiliams' catalogue, how may new themes did Revenge of the Sith really require? Really, the only new character to require thematic material is Grievous. But he wrote a lament for Anakin's fall to darkness, which he derives from "Across the Stars" so the assocations of that melody carry over to the new one, he wrote a motif for the duel, a motif for Mustafar which he wove into the duel material, etc...
 
With each score in this series and others, Williams always stressed that "90% of the thematic material is new" or something like that. Always. And that's understandable: composition is a creative process and how creative are you really being when you're just rehashing existing material? To see him all but abandon this rule with this sore is disheartening.
 
Even if Johnson made him do it (which I believe may be the case) that doesn't change nor excuse what we got.

Its one that is based on the composer's self proclaimed (and very vocally so) desire to base each new score in the series predominantly on new thematic material, which - for the first time - doesn't apply to this score.                                                                                                                                                     

It has a bit more polish, its a much more linear and well-paced film, its just as funny without being jarring in the application of humor, and it doesn't have anything like the Rose/Finn storyline, which just doesn't work on any level whatsoever. Overall, even the performances are better: the bad guys in this are too over-the-top.

There was bashing, but not nearly as much as with this. I still see The Force Awakens as a very flawed film, but having seen The Last Jedi, I'm starting to feel like Abrams' take is the superior of the two.

Prefatory notes:
 
1. Sorry for the formatting not being ideal, but I tried to do this as fast as possible (and it still took many hours over the last few days). 
 
2. Also, I don't include unreleased cue timings, but I do give brief descriptions of most unreleased cues. Obviously it's tough to accurately describe music, so I ended up saying stuff like "there are some fanfares" a lot. But I hope you find it a bit interesting. 
 
3. A note on Johnson's treatment of the score: It doesn't seem to me that there's very much microediting or tracking in the film! That's in addition to the great mix! 
 
4. Overall, it doesn't seem like there's that much essentially unreleased music. Sure, there are a bunch of short cues we're missing, but not many full "sequences." 
 
4. Some have said "The Battle of Crait" contains music that differs from the end credits (possibly a non-microedited version?) I wasn't really sure about that so I didn't deal with that here. 
 
5. @CGCJ has done a nice breakdown of the OST chronology here, if you haven't seen it yet:
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DW-2_W4bTKZb-NeUlL5NUMMqvzDAMzHCH1a8waRH6ic/htmlview# 
 
 
--------------------
 
 
Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Rough Cue List
 
By Will (with some assistance from @Jilal)
 
Main Title - unclear whether OST recording and film recording are identical, and whether either are new
 
Escape Part 1 - heard until about 2:45 on OST track; last few seconds are unreleased, but nothing too special; not sure if there are differences between OST and film version because our audio source cut off beginning few minutes of film
 
Escape Part 2 - Heard after Rebel Fanfare on OST; several differences between OST and film, most importantly the film's tracking in of the Luke's theme (main theme) statement from OST "Who Are You?" and omission of the first (short) Resistance march statement heard on OST, and the OST's omission of a heroic Poe's theme statement
 
Snoke Contacts Hux - Short, dark unreleased cue (not too interesting)
 
Return to Ahch-To - heard until ~1:45 on OST "Ahch-To Island"; OST has one minor microedit
 
Revisiting Snoke - identical to OST
 
We Need Your Help - heard from ~1:45 on OST "Ahch-To Island" until track ends
 
Who Are You? - heard until ~1:00 on OST "Who Are You?" 
 
I Need Help - Unreleased (includes a typical quiet Force theme statement, and some nice but ordinary, and very short, elegaic strings)
 
They've Tracked Us - Heard at beginning of OST "The Supremacy," until Leia's theme heard; Film contains some extra material, including a quiet and unremarkable statement of Rey's theme, at OST 0:08 (before the music swells)
 
Chaos on the Raddus - Pretty short unreleased action cue; contains statements of Leia's theme and of Ren's theme (pretty similar to those found elsewhere)  
 
Battle Continues - Opening heard on OST "The Supremacy" at ~2:00-2:30;ending (some nice short swelling music followed by mostly standard brooding underscore), is unreleased
 
Leia Uses the Force - Heard in full on OST "The Supremacy" from 2:30-end
 
Old Friends - Identical to OST track 0:00-1:58
 
Holdo's Speech - Unreleased, stately Resistance theme variation
 
Poe Confronts Holdo - Unreleased dark underscore
 
Rose Spots Finn - Unreleased, short; contains one Rose's theme statement (similar to some on OST) 
 
Fun with Finn and Rose - Nearly all is in OST track, with exception of short brass scare
 
Rey Connects with Ren Part 1 - Pretty short unreleased cue, nothing special
 
Rey Connects with Ren Part 2 - standard meditative Rey's theme statement and some dark brass scares; SOME of cue is on 2:00-2:36 of OST "Old Friends," rest unreleased
 
Training Begins - 2:36-end of OST "Old Friends"
 
Lesson One - identical to OST track
 
Raw Strength - short unreleased cue with very short but cool fanfare
 
Do You Know What Happened - short unreleased cue (uses Ren's two themes)
 
Arrival at Canto Bight - identical to OST "Canto Bight" opening; contrary to some posters' assertions, it seems like the transition to next cue is same in film and OST
 
The Casino - identical to rest of OST "Canto Bight"
 
The Fathier Race, and Spotting the Codebreaker - Unreleased (statement of Rose's theme, short fun scherzo, and finally the gorgeous Long Goodbye cameo!) 
 
Rey Training with Lightsaber - Unreleased (bombastic Rey's theme statement)
 
Luke Remembers His Academy - Unreleased (includes statement of Han's theme, and some nice dark, elegaic stuff)
 
Maintain Our Current Course - Unreleased (dark and short)
 
Meeting DJ - OST "Who Are You?" (1:00-2:05)
 
Jailbreak - OST "Who Are You?" 2:05-end
 
The Stable - Very nice short unreleased cue, with some Resistance march variations and a calming tone, although ends with suspense tones leading right into next cue
 
The Fathiers Part 1 - identical to OST (ends at OST 0:56)
 
The Casino Starts to Shake - seems to be unreleased source music (short jazz lounge piano bit); unclear whether it's JW or not
 
The Fathiers Part 2 - identical to OST (starts at OST 0:56)
 
Anybody Need a Lift? - Pretty great unreleased cue with Rose's theme and some fanfares (plus, yet again, the Force theme)
 
Rey and Ren Chat Again - unreleased; dark and brooding
 
The Dark Water - Unreleased, and very short
 
The Cave - identical to OST (0:00-1:57)
 
Fighting in the Rain - Pretty long action opening unreleased, although OST has end of cue in "The Cave" (1:57-end)
 
The Sacred Jedi Texts - Identical to OST, although film seems to replace OST 1:15-1:30 with somewhat awkward tracking from somewhere
 
Dire Straights - Unreleased; Very short, but has some nice fanfares
 
We're Abandoning Ship, and Rey's Escape Pod - Unreleased, quite long; includes bombastic Rey's theme statement (and that cool trumpet bit Jilal pointed out)
 
Relieving Holdo - Fades in as previous cue ends; has interesting little Force theme variation and includes innocent Luke's theme (main theme) statement
 
You Will Turn - unreleased
 
Rey to Snoke, and Infiltrators Caught - Beginning on OST "A New Alliance" (:00-01:07); pretty great ending with Rose's theme and Resistance march is unreleased
 
Leia Stuns Poe - Extremely short; includes short Luke's theme (main theme)
 
Someone Needs to Stay - Totally unreleased; Nice innocent Luke's theme (main theme) variation, recalling ANH; also nice Force theme variation, and concluding with a big performance Holdo's lovely "desperation" theme
 
Snoke Tortures Rey - Unreleased (includes Emperor's theme)
 
Destroyer Hangar, and Resistance Caught - Unreleased, and pretty long (starts with great short march based on unreleased "You Need a Pilot" from TFA); also has some nice fanfares
 
The Death of Snoke - OST "A New Alliance" 1:07-1:51
 
Fighting the Guards - OST missing opening, but rest of cue can be heard 1:51-end in OST "A New Alliance"
 
Let It All Die - Unreleased (lots of low Kylo B theme and a bit of Rey's theme)
 
Cruiser Prepares to Jump - Pretty great unreleased little action cue, although seems fairly similar to a lot of other stuff on OST
 
Execution, and Holdo's Sacrifice - Sounds identical to OST "Finale" 5:30-6:25, although OST seems to have a few extra seconds of music at end (probably recorded for end credits?)
 
"Chrome Dome" - Identical to OST
 
Destroyer Escape, and Let's Finish This - Unreleased; Pretty nice Rose's theme heroic statement
 
Shut the Door - Short unreleased action cue, with nice Rose's theme statement at end
 
It's Now or Never - Unreleased; portion almost identical to "The Plan" from TFA (similarly unreleased; they are semi-fugato low string variations on Resistance march) 
 
We Have to Buy Time - OST "The Battle of Crait" start-3:46; fades right into next cue in film and OST
 
Falcon Chase - OST "The Battle of Crait" 3:46-4:30; fades right into next cue in film and OST
 
More Fighting - OST "The Battle of Crait" 4:30-5:28; fades right into next cue in film and OST
 
Finn's Daring Ride - OST "The Battle of Crait" 5:28-end
 
I Saved You - Unreleased; Sad variation of Rose's theme
 
Reunion - identical to OST "The Spark" start-2:15
 
Facing Evil - identical to OST "The Spark" start-2:15
 
That's Enough - Unreleased underscore with some fanfares and Kylo's B-theme
 
The Duel Begins - Unreleased; Contains nice quiet variation of Poe's theme (pretty similar to that in "Peace and Purpose")
 
Following the Critters - Unreleased; short but pretty great (includes very nice heroic rendition of Rey's "intro" chords)
 
The Last Jedi Part 1 - Identical to OST start-1:30; next cue begins immediately after this one ends
 
The Last Jedi Part 2 - Identical to OST 1:30-end
 
Peace and Purpose - Identical to OST 
 
Legends - OST "Finale" start-0:36
 
Shooting Star - OST "Finale" 0:36-1:05
 
End Credits - This wasn't in our audio source (see Jay's analysis, though!); obviously, you can find at least a version of the credits music in the final OST track
 
NOTE: The OST's "The Rebellion is Reborn" is a concert suite. 
 

ANH doesnt set up TESB at all. TESB only sets up the rescuing Han part, but nothing from the actual plot of that film, which is about another Death Star.
It even seriously contradicts a few things from TESB.

No, they expect something that should win "Best Picture", but won't.

Of course that's what he wanted, but we ended up with more than that. When I hear that moment in the music, it takes me back to Mustafar for a split-second.

Thinking about it you're right. Her believing that she could turn Kylo and not putting two and two together when he kills Snoke comes off as very naive.
 
Also, her arc is complete by the midpoint so the actual climax almost doesn't feature her at all. All she does is lift some rocks at the end.

I'm not sure. Attack of the Clones had two love themes, the mystery motif, the Kamino motif and a motif for Dooku. Revenge of the Sith has Battle of the Heroes, Grievous, Anakin's Lament, a motif for Mustafar, that piece from "another happy landing" and the first recurring statement of one of the fanfares associated with Curoscant.
 
This has Rose's theme, the Last Jedi motif and the Desperation motif - half of either of those two.

Of course that's what he wanted, but we ended up with more than that. When I hear that moment in the music, it takes me back to Mustafar for a split-second.

Of course that's what he wanted, but we ended up with more than that. When I hear that moment in the music, it takes me back to Mustafar for a split-second.

Who said its a quote? its a near-quote. Anyone who knows his Revenge of the Sith well with recall Battle of the Heroes at that moment. And watching Episode 8, this flashback  to episode 3 is wildly inappropriate from a narrative standpoint.
 
If you recall, what were the first impressions of the score from preview audience? "sounds like ROTS."
 
 
Each Star Wars score has always been its own thing, interconnected with the other scores. To find excuses for this album's lack of identity in it being "an extension of The Force Awakens" is just that - making excuses.
 
If it were the third film I would have been more inclined to accept this excuse, because of the concluding nature of the score, but here, it doesn't work.
 

Of course that's what he wanted, but we ended up with more than that. When I hear that moment in the music, it takes me back to Mustafar for a split-second.

Williams of the early 2000s would never write a new score which:
is so thin on new thematic material.
recycles familiar themes in familiar settings.
uses said themes to excess and to little narrative purpose (e.g. The Force).
sticks so close to the temp-track and even lifts material from other compositions (e.g. the long goodbye)
 
Previously, I assumed this was Johnson's fault, but if his remarks on letting Williams do his own thing are to be believed, than we can't help but infer that Williams just wasn't as "into it" as before, which is understandable after 40 years and seven films.
 
I like the score, but its not one of his best efforts in the series, or in his career in general. That it is unfortunate, doesn't make it any less true, and no amount of wishful thinking will undo that.

I also seem to recall a near-quote of Anakin's Betrayal; and the return of the SATB choir and chu-daiko also shows the footprints of Revenge of the Sith, as well.
 
I would have been more okay with it if it were based on some other, more closely related scores in the Star Wars narrative. Sadly, Revenge of the Sith and these themes have nothing to do with this film.
 
 

Because temp-track love.

I also seem to recall a near-quote of Anakin's Betrayal; and the return of the SATB choir and chu-daiko also shows the footprints of Revenge of the Sith, as well.
 
I would have been more okay with it if it were based on some other, more closely related scores in the Star Wars narrative. Sadly, Revenge of the Sith and these themes have nothing to do with this film.
 
 

AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
 
I don't for a second believe that Williams meant to quote Battle of the Heroes. Its wholly inappropriate, especially within the narrative of the episodes. It was just temp-track-love.

Williams of the early 2000s would never write a new score which:
is so thin on new thematic material.
recycles familiar themes in familiar settings.
uses said themes to excess and to little narrative purpose (e.g. The Force).
sticks so close to the temp-track and even lifts material from other compositions (e.g. the long goodbye)
 
Previously, I assumed this was Johnson's fault, but if his remarks on letting Williams do his own thing are to be believed, than we can't help but infer that Williams just wasn't as "into it" as before, which is understandable after 40 years and seven films.
 
I like the score, but its not one of his best efforts in the series, or in his career in general. That it is unfortunate, doesn't make it any less true, and no amount of wishful thinking will undo that.

Williams of the early 2000s would never write a new score which:
is so thin on new thematic material.
recycles familiar themes in familiar settings.
uses said themes to excess and to little narrative purpose (e.g. The Force).
sticks so close to the temp-track and even lifts material from other compositions (e.g. the long goodbye)
 
Previously, I assumed this was Johnson's fault, but if his remarks on letting Williams do his own thing are to be believed, than we can't help but infer that Williams just wasn't as "into it" as before, which is understandable after 40 years and seven films.
 
I like the score, but its not one of his best efforts in the series, or in his career in general. That it is unfortunate, doesn't make it any less true, and no amount of wishful thinking will undo that.