Chen G.

So, can we come up with a list of themes that we think Williams will have written for this film?
 
I say a porg theme, a theme for that Rose character, a theme for Del Toro's character, maybe a theme for one of the unusual planets on display, and possibly a new theme for the First Order itself. Seems about right.

It won't. Williams like to write new thematic material for each film and base the overwhelming majority of the score on this new material.
 
He also doesn't compose with sequels in mind, so I don't think that he wrote the Jedi Steps with the intention of making it the theme of the sequel. As it is, its just a one-time melody.

Its a long theme with several parts, yes. Many of Williams' longer themes (which are typically his main themes) have two or three distinctive parts in them: think about Luke's theme during the crawl: the A-phrase is very brassy but the B-phrase (after the Rebel Fanfare) is surprisingly lyrical. Across the Stars' A-Section is very romantic, but it than moves into the more angsty B-phrase and the even more portentous C-phrase/end-cap.
 
Its not even a strictly a Williams' device, either. Think about the B-phrase of the Shire theme. Very different effect, right?

It won't. Williams like to write new thematic material for each film and base the overwhelming majority of the score on this new material.
 
He also doesn't compose with sequels in mind, so I don't think that he wrote the Jedi Steps with the intention of making it the theme of the sequel. As it is, its just a one-time melody.

Rian Johnson said that while he will deal with her lineage, the course of the narrative isn't going to hang over that question.
 
 

Its a long theme with several parts, yes. Many of Williams' longer themes (which are typically his main themes) have two or three distinctive parts in them: think about Luke's theme during the crawl: the A-phrase is very brassy but the B-phrase (after the Rebel Fanfare) is surprisingly lyrical. Across the Stars' A-Section is very romantic, but it than moves into the more angsty B-phrase and the even more portentous C-phrase/end-cap.
 
Its not even a strictly a Williams' device, either. Think about the B-phrase of the Shire theme. Very different effect, right?

Mine is probably the same, but with Braveheart on top, followed by Titanic.
 
Braveheart sure does have a lot of filler (and synth filler, at that) and it's certainly not particularly leitmotivically intricate, but its certainly written to be incredibly affecting, and complements the film incredibly well. Its also got a couple of incredibly full and rich string performances from the London Symphony Orchestra. There are moments where it feels absoloutly huge.
 
Titanic got knocked off of the top because it feels deriviative of Braveheart. I know both Horner and James Cameron really liked that score, and the Hymn for the Sea has a lineup just straight out of that score: Ulieann Pipes, tin Whistle and boy choir. Its also not as dynamic and varied.
 
Maybe I just cannot divorce the music from the film. Braveheart is an absolute masterpiece, in my eyes. It has romance, action, amazing visuals and great drama and tragedy mixed up in measure. Even just on the level of the romance, it's just as believable in the forty minutes of screen time in Braveheart, as it is in the three hours of Titanic.

Just saw Empire! Absolutely outstanding, though interestingly, I think the actual power of the live music was stronger during New Hope (for example, those epic clashes at the start of the original Imperial/Death Star theme).  Nevertheless, this was an extraordinary experience.  The absent light female chorus during the Cloud City approach wasn't distracting, but like others here, I seriously wonder how they're going to go about Jedi and TFA.  It wouldn't surprise me if the choir situation is part of why they're not doing the prequels, popularity aside.
 
Also, one especially fun treat - for New Hope, the film resumed from intermission by repeating the music from the end of the first half with the screen black, and then the film faded in as the music continued from where it left off.  However, for Empire, they actually played a condensed version of the album/concert version of The Imperial March before resuming the film (it picked up at the bounty hunters with Vader scene).
 
If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!  And rest assured, I'll also be at Jedi and TFA, so I'll be able to report on those as well.

Even the programs scanned earlier in the thread seem to only be based on pre-existing interviews with Williams.
 
Its all kind of dissappointing, in a way, really.

Its a curious thing, for me, because I was never aware of music in film as music. It was always such an integral part of the impression and the emotion of the scene that I never thought of it as music per se.  I mean, I was humming the Minas Tirith theme to no end for the better part of four years, without understanding what I was doing. The first time I was aware of music in film as being music was the company theme in An Unexpected Journey, because of the shift from source to underscore to end-credits song.
 
The first theme that I ever hummed was, I believe, the Superman theme.

Yes, he abandoned his plan for nine episodes before making Return of the Jedi. His original idea was basically to stretch the original trilogy over six films, and break up the sextet with a prequel trilogy in the middle. He probably later realized how stupid this was.
 
But don't tell that to Kathleen Kennedy.

To me, its very noticeable. It's not just that they copy off plot points. There are a couple of re-creates shots and even a lot about the narrative structure of the film is the same: action opening, long first act including a late-in-the-game introduction to the main character, and a tragic death launching the finale off. It doesn't ruin the film for me, but I don't feel that its a flaw to be taken lightly
 
As for Abrams closing the trilogy, do you really see him produce a GREAT film? A masterpiece for the ages? Its the last episode of a nine-piece series. It should be great. Not just a JJ-Abrams-good-time-at-the-movies film. We got a do-over from Return of the Jedi, why not make the most out of it?
 
Oh and as for the Eagles: Their appearances in Tolkiens writings are consistent in that they don't cover much ground (Gwaihir only took Gandalf from Orrhanc to Edoras) and if they do - it takes them a long time because they require frequent stops: they left the Misty Mountains after the Goblin army and took just as much time to get to the Lonely Mountain.
 

Not on the level of the music itself or the performance, those were to be expected to be good.
 
The issues are rather on the level of the production: The film is presented in its special edition; Williams' personal engagement in the project seems to be small; The music follows the finished film (replete with edits, muted music, etc); diegetic music is not performed; choir and unique orchestrations are removed; the forces are drastically reduced; etcetra.

They're not bad at all. That a film has flaws doesn't make it bad. Good continuity (within the trilogy and as part of the whole sextet), great characters (which entails on-point casting and great acting), an interesting story, good cinematography, some amazing production value (sets, some incredible CG, sound design and score). That I can find emotionally resonant moments in each of the three is evidence enough for me.
 
So the pacing of An Unexpected Journey isn't engaging. So some of the Dwarf table manners humor (of which there is none in the later two) is too crude. So the romance (of which there is little) doesn't work in Battle of the Five Armies. It really isn't enough to discount the films' many merits.
 
Generally, while I like to look at film critically, I tend to like films more than I dislike them. Its completely self defeating to constantly find the bad in something that is made for your enjoyment.

Were they though? I rewatched the Hobbit a lot, and there are very few moments that I think of as callbacks. There are a lot of revisited locales in the first film, but that was inevitable. In fact, part of what I outright love about the later two entries is just how outlandish and unique the Wilderland and the Lonely Mountain are, compared to what we've seen before.
 
Furthermore, the proof is in the pudding: callbacks are a means of lending cohesion. Ultimately, In The prequels the cohesion is so luckluster than Lucas had to retrofit the originals to achieve it, and it still doesn't work! The Hobbit flows into Fellowship of the Ring almost seemlessly. That's the true test of callbacks.

But wasn't Disney's making of this trilogy hanging on "George always wanted to make nine films"? They won't have that excuse (which, admittedly, was true before Return of the Jedi) going forward into more Episodes, and marketing-wise its important.

Nah, he'll just use Leia's theme to "represent Rey and Finn's reaction to leaving Luke behind." 

Rian Johnson said that while he will deal with her lineage, the course of the narrative isn't going to hang over that question.
 
 

To me, its very noticeable. It's not just that they copy off plot points. There are a couple of re-creates shots and even a lot about the narrative structure of the film is the same: action opening, long first act including a late-in-the-game introduction to the main character, and a tragic death launching the finale off. It doesn't ruin the film for me, but I don't feel that its a flaw to be taken lightly
 
As for Abrams closing the trilogy, do you really see him produce a GREAT film? A masterpiece for the ages? Its the last episode of a nine-piece series. It should be great. Not just a JJ-Abrams-good-time-at-the-movies film. We got a do-over from Return of the Jedi, why not make the most out of it?
 
Oh and as for the Eagles: Their appearances in Tolkiens writings are consistent in that they don't cover much ground (Gwaihir only took Gandalf from Orrhanc to Edoras) and if they do - it takes them a long time because they require frequent stops: they left the Misty Mountains after the Goblin army and took just as much time to get to the Lonely Mountain.
 

To be fair, I can enjoy the prequels (well, two of them) in spite of all of their flaws.
 
If one isn't the kind of fan that deifys the "original trilogy", one should be able to enjoy Phantom Menace on the adventure and spectacle level, and Revenge of the Sith on the narrative level.

To be fair, I can enjoy the prequels (well, two of them) in spite of all of their flaws.
 
If one isn't the kind of fan that deifys the "original trilogy", one should be able to enjoy Phantom Menace on the adventure and spectacle level, and Revenge of the Sith on the narrative level.

Were they though? I rewatched the Hobbit a lot, and there are very few moments that I think of as callbacks. There are a lot of revisited locales in the first film, but that was inevitable. In fact, part of what I outright love about the later two entries is just how outlandish and unique the Wilderland and the Lonely Mountain are, compared to what we've seen before.
 
Furthermore, the proof is in the pudding: callbacks are a means of lending cohesion. Ultimately, In The prequels the cohesion is so luckluster than Lucas had to retrofit the originals to achieve it, and it still doesn't work! The Hobbit flows into Fellowship of the Ring almost seemlessly. That's the true test of callbacks.

Yes, and you'd imagine a composer would enjoy it even more than any of us.

Lucas made each of his prequels "rhyme" with each of the originals. There are also callbacks from the later prequels to the earlier ones, and Return of the Jedi also rhymes heavily with the original Star Wars.
 
So this idea of parallels between each opposite episode of each trilogy kind of falls apart under scrutiny. The callbacks are just not as deliberate as that theory makes them out to be.