HunterTech

It's definitely an acquired taste. I certainty had trouble listening to it back when we only had the bootlegged "film stem" set, but then I got into it a bit more after I'd grabbed an edit someone did (once it became apparent there were gaps in the final edit of the score).
 
It's far more cohesive and thematic than I think people give it credit for, but there's no beating around some of the more abrasive sounds that Kamen likely threw in out of frustration. I certainly have trouble imagining what the more Superman inspired version of this sounded like, because it fits in very well with the other Kamen stuff I've heard (a theme here is straight up taken from Robin Hood!). The action material definitely isn't as cohesive as people might like it to be, but it's got enough energy and personality to it that I honestly don't mind. Really, the highlights are in the dramatic and emotional moments. Very few superhero movies have captured the feelings Death Camp and Logan and Rogue leave me with. They arguably are quite odd for a cape flick, but that's what makes them appealing! You simply will not find anything else with the personality of this, for better or worse.
 
The OST is on streaming if you want a sampler, since it's decently representative of the score (despite some mixes being tailored for the album). The LLL certainly gives a much fuller picture on what Kamen managed to achieve, but I think that'll just depend on if you like any of it beforehand.

It's definitely an acquired taste. I certainty had trouble listening to it back when we only had the bootlegged "film stem" set, but then I got into it a bit more after I'd grabbed an edit someone did (once it became apparent there were gaps in the final edit of the score).
 
It's far more cohesive and thematic than I think people give it credit for, but there's no beating around some of the more abrasive sounds that Kamen likely threw in out of frustration. I certainly have trouble imagining what the more Superman inspired version of this sounded like, because it fits in very well with the other Kamen stuff I've heard (a theme here is straight up taken from Robin Hood!). The action material definitely isn't as cohesive as people might like it to be, but it's got enough energy and personality to it that I honestly don't mind. Really, the highlights are in the dramatic and emotional moments. Very few superhero movies have captured the feelings Death Camp and Logan and Rogue leave me with. They arguably are quite odd for a cape flick, but that's what makes them appealing! You simply will not find anything else with the personality of this, for better or worse.
 
The OST is on streaming if you want a sampler, since it's decently representative of the score (despite some mixes being tailored for the album). The LLL certainly gives a much fuller picture on what Kamen managed to achieve, but I think that'll just depend on if you like any of it beforehand.

I have wondered if the score could be considered technically unfinished, just based on the state of certain cues. The Main Titles being completely tracked (1m1 is actually Death Camp), the original version of Land of Intolerance abruptly ending (with the film version having to fake one), and everything to do with Inside The Statue (the Kamen website even lists the tracked version!). Combine that with the slew of revisions, plus versions made specifically for the OST, it is honestly a miracle that the score holds together as much as it does. Even if it does also explain why people generally only remember select pieces.
 
If it wasn't for Disney buying Fox, I would've been very curious in seeing what a further expanded re-release of this score could've looked like, since there's absolutely stuff they could release in addition to the coveted classic superhero sounding demos MK made. Even if it's just the final score demos Badelt used to have on his promos/website and proper film versions on some tracks (since the internal 2CD set seems to have been for an earlier cut). But then given the Kamen Estate likely already gave them everything they had presumably, I guess it'd be down to if anyone else involved had anything they could offer from the production.
 
 

It's definitely an acquired taste. I certainty had trouble listening to it back when we only had the bootlegged "film stem" set, but then I got into it a bit more after I'd grabbed an edit someone did (once it became apparent there were gaps in the final edit of the score).
 
It's far more cohesive and thematic than I think people give it credit for, but there's no beating around some of the more abrasive sounds that Kamen likely threw in out of frustration. I certainly have trouble imagining what the more Superman inspired version of this sounded like, because it fits in very well with the other Kamen stuff I've heard (a theme here is straight up taken from Robin Hood!). The action material definitely isn't as cohesive as people might like it to be, but it's got enough energy and personality to it that I honestly don't mind. Really, the highlights are in the dramatic and emotional moments. Very few superhero movies have captured the feelings Death Camp and Logan and Rogue leave me with. They arguably are quite odd for a cape flick, but that's what makes them appealing! You simply will not find anything else with the personality of this, for better or worse.
 
The OST is on streaming if you want a sampler, since it's decently representative of the score (despite some mixes being tailored for the album). The LLL certainly gives a much fuller picture on what Kamen managed to achieve, but I think that'll just depend on if you like any of it beforehand.

The bottom line is, the best presentation of this is score to something each listener would need to tailor for themselves. Neither of the official presentations is perfect for listening.
 
Karol

It's definitely an acquired taste. I certainty had trouble listening to it back when we only had the bootlegged "film stem" set, but then I got into it a bit more after I'd grabbed an edit someone did (once it became apparent there were gaps in the final edit of the score).
 
It's far more cohesive and thematic than I think people give it credit for, but there's no beating around some of the more abrasive sounds that Kamen likely threw in out of frustration. I certainly have trouble imagining what the more Superman inspired version of this sounded like, because it fits in very well with the other Kamen stuff I've heard (a theme here is straight up taken from Robin Hood!). The action material definitely isn't as cohesive as people might like it to be, but it's got enough energy and personality to it that I honestly don't mind. Really, the highlights are in the dramatic and emotional moments. Very few superhero movies have captured the feelings Death Camp and Logan and Rogue leave me with. They arguably are quite odd for a cape flick, but that's what makes them appealing! You simply will not find anything else with the personality of this, for better or worse.
 
The OST is on streaming if you want a sampler, since it's decently representative of the score (despite some mixes being tailored for the album). The LLL certainly gives a much fuller picture on what Kamen managed to achieve, but I think that'll just depend on if you like any of it beforehand.

Ah. I'd honestly written that comment as a joke, since I figured it'd be a bigger deal if something was actually missing. Guess I was right in thinking that emote didn't convey the intent well .
 
(The comment after certainly doesn't help, either .)

Woah. It had previously stated it was merely out of stock.
 
Given it's a Fox movie, I can't help but wonder if Disney has straight up cut themselves off from whatever agreements there were initially, since the exact same thing has also happened to the Die Hard with a Vengeance release.

The 2008 release pretty much took the original promo that was made around the time of the movie's release, and added a couple of extra tracks in-between, as well as 3 synth ones at the end. Looking at the cue list and even just watching the opening act of the film, it's pretty apparent that stuff is either missing or we only have the alternates for them. Plus it's a fairly standard Young OST in terms of rearranging the order of tracks for "ideal listening" and all that junk.
 
The rather strange thing about the release is that every new track on it came from a lossy source, suggesting they were pretty limited in terms of the masters they had access to (especially since everything else matches the promo otherwise). So the real intrigue would be if this new release actually uses the original master instead of whatever Intrada and Young had lying around for the score.

The 2008 release pretty much took the original promo that was made around the time of the movie's release, and added a couple of extra tracks in-between, as well as 3 synth ones at the end. Looking at the cue list and even just watching the opening act of the film, it's pretty apparent that stuff is either missing or we only have the alternates for them. Plus it's a fairly standard Young OST in terms of rearranging the order of tracks for "ideal listening" and all that junk.
 
The rather strange thing about the release is that every new track on it came from a lossy source, suggesting they were pretty limited in terms of the masters they had access to (especially since everything else matches the promo otherwise). So the real intrigue would be if this new release actually uses the original master instead of whatever Intrada and Young had lying around for the score.

The 2008 release pretty much took the original promo that was made around the time of the movie's release, and added a couple of extra tracks in-between, as well as 3 synth ones at the end. Looking at the cue list and even just watching the opening act of the film, it's pretty apparent that stuff is either missing or we only have the alternates for them. Plus it's a fairly standard Young OST in terms of rearranging the order of tracks for "ideal listening" and all that junk.
 
The rather strange thing about the release is that every new track on it came from a lossy source, suggesting they were pretty limited in terms of the masters they had access to (especially since everything else matches the promo otherwise). So the real intrigue would be if this new release actually uses the original master instead of whatever Intrada and Young had lying around for the score.

as @Yavar Moradipointed out, yes that article linked doesn't back up any claim made by @Schilkeman and I actually remember reading that interview in preparation for the series and feeling a glow of hope because of how much Star Wars had been caught in the glut of self-reference and how inaccessible it had become

the snippet from his Rogue One interview I don't think says anything we didn't already know, but given this was well before Andor was even conceived of I don't think it's a very up to date perspective for Gilroy, especially since the nature of his involvement in that project is very different from being the idea progenitor and showrunner of Andor

Yavar brought up Star Trek, but to bring up an example closer to home, Chris Avellone the lead narrative designer of KOTOR 2 which is one of the most critically claimed Star Wars stories ever, was on record saying how he wasn't really a fan of Star Wars and had gripes with it. despite this, he did his due diligence and dived into the expanded material and in the process fell in love with the series, whilst also grounding his ability to critique long-accepted facets of the Star Wars universe in the story such as the Force

it would not surprise me in the least to learn that in the process of diving into this universe, Gilroy has actually found things to appreciate about Star Wars that he didn't before. he strikes me in the vein of Irvin Kershner, director of ESB, who if you listen to him talk about the film it's clear he's not bogged down in the lore but is far more interested at the character drama at the heart of the piece and that's where his interest lies instead. something far more important from a film-making standpoint than knowing and being a database for lore factoids, I have to say. that's the job of other people in the production like the Lucasfilm Story Group anyway, and they did a very good job because there's a lot of deep cut references and no contradictions at all that I could tell

I kind of figured. I think I got thrown off by Holko's phrasing in his post, since such wording tends to imply unreleased material normally.

It's called representation Yavar.
 
Cal Kestis was a godsend for us Gingers.
 
 
😉

DoD is more interesting than TRoS ever will be, even if not quite for the reasons if should be.

A filmmaker can leave things open to interpretation or not by choice. In this case, I don’t think an argument is there that anything in Barbie is subtext.  It’s a movie for tweens and it wears its morals on its sleeve, often even telling explicitly instead of showing.  The only variable is the sociopolitical baggage - or the chip on their shoulder - that each viewer brings in .

What a film is “trying to say” isn’t as important as what a person hears. Once art is released into the world, all that matters is how people interpret it.
 
I’m not sure about declaring what’s the right or wrong message from Barbie. It’s a Rorschach test. The director’s intentions are largely irrelevant.  If Barbie’s not open to interpretation, then it’s just sermonising, and if it is, then people are free to interpret it as they wish.

When he ripped it in 2021, the titles weren’t on BSX’s website.  The titles he has are slightly different.

A bit harsh, but I do concede that a movie that ends with it saying that men should be allowed to be their own people instead of following every masculine stereotype is anything but emasculating to men.
 
(That, and nothing will ever be as cool as the whole "I'm Just Ken" sequence.)

Possibly, but I find this "men just can't be men anymore," thing some Cowardly-Lion-Archie-Bunker bullshit. Punching down is part of addressing privilege. I don't think mens' standing in the world will be effected, or affected, by the Barbie movie.
 
And trigger warnings exist so that people with legitimate trauma can decide whether or not to engage with that piece of media. It is not the woke police trying to raise a world of squibs.

Nope. It's the same artwork as on the website, which meant whoever submitted them to whatever database Stark used had to make up titles for them.

So me and @Stark have been discussing this anomaly, and discovered that if you purchased the score around at least February 2021, then chances are: you already have these tracks! And they're pretty much exactly what the titles say they are, so I guess we'll find out soon if this is another A.I. situation or not.
 
Given I would've recently gotten the "original tracklist" version from one of Lukas Kendall's several collector sales, I am a bit peeved that this now another BSX release where I bought it before a slightly more expanded release popped up (or at least was made aware of this being something that has happened).

Nope. It's the same artwork as on the website, which meant whoever submitted them to whatever database Stark used had to make up titles for them.

So me and @Stark have been discussing this anomaly, and discovered that if you purchased the score around at least February 2021, then chances are: you already have these tracks! And they're pretty much exactly what the titles say they are, so I guess we'll find out soon if this is another A.I. situation or not.
 
Given I would've recently gotten the "original tracklist" version from one of Lukas Kendall's several collector sales, I am a bit peeved that this now another BSX release where I bought it before a slightly more expanded release popped up (or at least was made aware of this being something that has happened).

I thought the Doctor Strange choice was more odd. If Jackie Chan could play a stereotypical kung fu master in The Karate Kid, I am sure they could have casted a Asian to be a mystical leader. I mean, they did it anyway with Wong and Mordo (stereotypical black mystic). 
 
Regarding Dune, I think since the story took place on another planet, Villeneuve got it right for having a mixture of ethnicities. With that said, I do get the point about casting more MENA actors. Yes, if they did that, there will still be criticism, but that is not really the point. The point is, at least MENA actors would have an opportunity to be in a world-class Hollywood film.