HunterTech

Because using a preestablished successful IP is much easier than putting in the time, creativity and lot of work to build up a competing one for real equality.

I wish more people understood this. Every bit of criticism of Kennedy elicits a response with a litany of all the ultra-successful, iconic films she's worked on. And it's all true, she is undoubtedly one of the most successful in Hollywood history, her record speaks for itself. And she deserves every bit of credit for what she's done. 
 
But being a producer is a very different job than the one she has now. And frankly, she lacks the grand vision to lead something as sprawling as Star Wars. The films and TV shows have been all over the place in terms of quality and performance, and her tenure has seen Star Wars fans become disillusioned & bitterly divided. While she's certainly not responsible for everything that's gone wrong with Star Wars (lots of people, mostly men, share the blame), there's no cohesion or unified theme behind what's going on with the franchise. It's all disjointed and scattershot, all over the place in terms of story. Add to that the graveyard of abandoned projects, and Star Wars has paid the price for her lack of vision.
 
 
I certainly agree that it's a good thing that historically marginalised groups be given more opportunities in the entertainment industry. Frankly women should be directing Star Wars movies, and I was happy when Patty Jenkins got the nod.
 
 
But is Obaid-Chinoy, who is first and foremost a self-described activist, and has directed primarily documentaries and small animated films, really "just as qualified as anyone else" to direct as Star Wars movie? Really?  When you have a CV that doesn't show you have remotely the kind of experience to pull something like this off (as far as I know she hasn't even directed a feature film), of course people are going to suspect you're being hired for other reasons. I mean, why isn't Bryce Dallas Howard being given this opportunity?
 
And not for nothing, while we're all talking about how good it is, to quote Obaid-Chinoy incorrectly talking about herself, "for a woman to finally shape a story in a galaxy far, far away", can we finally give some credit to Marcia Lucas, who was literally the first woman to do so? 
 
 

If that's the case, Disney only has themselves to blame. The cancelled or never greenlit potential Star Wars films from established filmmakers like Patty Jenkins, Colin Trevorrow, Josh Trank, Joss Wheedon, Zack Snyder, Kevin Feige and Benioff & Weiss. Every one of those filmmakers has had success directing big budget genre films, and they all were attached to, or expressed interest in, directing Star Wars. That's to say nothing of throwing Gareth Edwards and Lord & Miller under the bus. And there's strong likelihood that Rian Johnson's & Taika Waititi's Star Wars films will never see the light of day.
 
Chad Stahelski (John Wick) recently said he'd love to do Star Wars, and other name directors have hinted at it. And there are plenty of talented, creative, experienced directors who work in other countries, outside the Hollywood system, who would jump at the chance.
 
Would all of these abandoned projects made for good Star Wars? Maybe not (look at Snyder's Rebel Moon). But we'll never know.
 
But if indeed, as you said, Disney is having trouble attracting such talent, it's at least partially because of the way they're treated the talent they've attracted.
 
 
I have no problem with younger, inexperienced directors being given a chance. The MCU has done this to great success. But its well-known that MCU films are very, very tightly managed and supervised, and are largely created in post. And in any event, say what you will about the MCU, but unlike Star Wars, it's a well-oiled machine (or, it was) with excellent management and a strategic vision for where they want to take the stories.
 
And if a young director is given a chance, personally I'd hope it was because someone saw something special in their work that suggested they could make a good Star Wars movie, and not to tick a box.
 

Maybe. They cancelled Patty Jenkins' Rogue Squadron, and she was the first, first female director of a Star Wars movie, so we'll see. Granted, Patty Jenkins isn't primarily known as an activist, just an experienced filmmaker who happens to be a woman, which is obviously not enough to shatter glass ceilings in a galaxy far, far away.
 
Jenkins is also the daughter of a fighter pilot who, in her words, "lost his life in service to his country" but oddly makes no mention of enjoying making men uncomfortable. She also said she was excited to direct a movie that would make people "love what fighter pilots do" as much as she does, with nothing about wanting to anger fans or subvert their expectations, which also made her clearly unsuitable for Star Wars.

Yes, all the evidence is Lucas was pretty hands-on on Return of the Jedi. But I think this description is exaggerated: if the film was really directed-from-the-back-seat by Lucas (which Marquand, as well as his DP, denied), it would have a more Lucas-like sensibility than it does. Lucas still needed a competent director who knew how to work with actors, and how to block a scene and edit a movie.

You really just avoided most of HunterTech's points...
 
This kind of thing happens every time in the industry, hell, only watching THX and American Grafitti one wouldn't imagine George Lucas could tackle a space opera. And it seems there's some conflating between writer and director, though there's some overlapping, Sharmeen isn't the one writing the movie. 

Even within SW: who the fuck was Richard Marquand before RotJ? All I know about him is being one of the first to do a Beatles biopic, and that's really it. Hell, while I admire him as a filmmaker, Rian Johnson didn't really have much showing he could do as something as grand as SW, even if he had tackled sci-fi beforehand.
 
The point I'm trying to make here is that you never quite know who might be qualified to do a project until you give them the reigns. The real issue is that Lucasfilm (and by extension much of Disney) seem to have jumped into this particular tactic too much, since we are seeing the natural limitations of such a concept within a couple of their works (Obi-Wan being a particular example). Hell, even well established directors like Robert Rodriguez and Guy Ritchie have had their style sucked out of them when working within the system, so really the real issue lies somewhere else.

Even within SW: who the fuck was Richard Marquand before RotJ? All I know about him is being one of the first to do a Beatles biopic, and that's really it. Hell, while I admire him as a filmmaker, Rian Johnson didn't really have much showing he could do as something as grand as SW, even if he had tackled sci-fi beforehand.
 
The point I'm trying to make here is that you never quite know who might be qualified to do a project until you give them the reigns. The real issue is that Lucasfilm (and by extension much of Disney) seem to have jumped into this particular tactic too much, since we are seeing the natural limitations of such a concept within a couple of their works (Obi-Wan being a particular example). Hell, even well established directors like Robert Rodriguez and Guy Ritchie have had their style sucked out of them when working within the system, so really the real issue lies somewhere else.

Even within SW: who the fuck was Richard Marquand before RotJ? All I know about him is being one of the first to do a Beatles biopic, and that's really it. Hell, while I admire him as a filmmaker, Rian Johnson didn't really have much showing he could do as something as grand as SW, even if he had tackled sci-fi beforehand.
 
The point I'm trying to make here is that you never quite know who might be qualified to do a project until you give them the reigns. The real issue is that Lucasfilm (and by extension much of Disney) seem to have jumped into this particular tactic too much, since we are seeing the natural limitations of such a concept within a couple of their works (Obi-Wan being a particular example). Hell, even well established directors like Robert Rodriguez and Guy Ritchie have had their style sucked out of them when working within the system, so really the real issue lies somewhere else.

Even within SW: who the fuck was Richard Marquand before RotJ? All I know about him is being one of the first to do a Beatles biopic, and that's really it. Hell, while I admire him as a filmmaker, Rian Johnson didn't really have much showing he could do as something as grand as SW, even if he had tackled sci-fi beforehand.
 
The point I'm trying to make here is that you never quite know who might be qualified to do a project until you give them the reigns. The real issue is that Lucasfilm (and by extension much of Disney) seem to have jumped into this particular tactic too much, since we are seeing the natural limitations of such a concept within a couple of their works (Obi-Wan being a particular example). Hell, even well established directors like Robert Rodriguez and Guy Ritchie have had their style sucked out of them when working within the system, so really the real issue lies somewhere else.

How were two Community directors qualified to direct an MCU movie, let alone four?
 
I just do not think these are particularly well conceived arguments once you go outside the parameters in which sociopolitical factors are considered.

Like who, JJ Abrams? Nobody ever presents a list...
 
I think this argument is like "There are dozens of hot singles in your area!" for movies. It's true in a way but not really. The best writers and directors are the best because they have a reputation for not taking jobs like Star Wars sequels and spin-offs, and they can still get great stuff made for big budgets with more creative control and fewer built-in expectations. They're too smart for this and realize that taking on Star Wars, especially for Disney, is a lose-lose proposition. David Fincher knew it and was the first to say fuck no to Episode 7. If they do something different, they'll be hated. If they do the same shit over again, they'll be hated and probably hate themselves even more. Either way, they just risked their profile on Star Wars instead of something new. At least younger directors have something to prove and are either more likely to play ball or they're more willing to put up with pushback from Disney and fans for a chance to pull their ideas off on a big scale. 
 
Tony Gilroy so far is the most sophisticated industry veteran they've nabbed who's apparently been able to do what he wants on his terms, and those circumstances arose basically by accident. 

Even within SW: who the fuck was Richard Marquand before RotJ? All I know about him is being one of the first to do a Beatles biopic, and that's really it. Hell, while I admire him as a filmmaker, Rian Johnson didn't really have much showing he could do as something as grand as SW, even if he had tackled sci-fi beforehand.
 
The point I'm trying to make here is that you never quite know who might be qualified to do a project until you give them the reigns. The real issue is that Lucasfilm (and by extension much of Disney) seem to have jumped into this particular tactic too much, since we are seeing the natural limitations of such a concept within a couple of their works (Obi-Wan being a particular example). Hell, even well established directors like Robert Rodriguez and Guy Ritchie have had their style sucked out of them when working within the system, so really the real issue lies somewhere else.

I am a little surprised Helena's theme hasn't gotten any mention yet, since it could be argued as potentially being an example of JW writing a theme based on description instead of what's depicted in the film. Granted, it could just simply be what Mangold wanted the sound to be, yet it is fairly frequent for the discrepancy to be noticed by folks here (and even elsewhere, like the Filmtracks review).

Based on the films I can comfortably say I have familiarity with:
 
1). RotJ
2). TFA
3). RotS
4). TESB
5). ANH
6). TLJ
7). TRoS
 
The second and third spots are entirely rooted in the two times I really was invested in the series (as a kid in 2005, and as a teen in 2015), with the first basically going off the great experience I had seeing it on the big screen last year.
 
Everything else is based in the fallout of modern fandom and corporate excesses .

Based on the films I can comfortably say I have familiarity with:
 
1). RotJ
2). TFA
3). RotS
4). TESB
5). ANH
6). TLJ
7). TRoS
 
The second and third spots are entirely rooted in the two times I really was invested in the series (as a kid in 2005, and as a teen in 2015), with the first basically going off the great experience I had seeing it on the big screen last year.
 
Everything else is based in the fallout of modern fandom and corporate excesses .

Helena: the most confusing character because I don't know what the actual arc ended up being. I can audibly hear Mangold randomly throwing in ideas every few minutes for threads they could elaborate on, but don't.
 
So I'm left with someone whose core flaws are really the only thing they enunciate without much of a proper journey to accompany them, a near complete opposite trajectory from where Rey from the ST ended up going.

If nothing else: the fanfictions that fix the story are bound to be pretty good.

I'll take incompletely conceived over completely overhauled because that matches the rest of the film more 
 
I do think the dots were there for the ending to really fit for the story being told. The issue is that Mangold got preoccupied with..... something, and hastily put the ending we ultimately see together so that whatever smidge of his conceived concept could come across.
 
He specifically mentions in the same interview how he really wanted the scene between Indy and Archimedes to have an emotional impact, yet the latter just stands there with no real reaction whatsoever. Combine that with the supposed intent to have Indy be back to his old glory by the end after the roughness of the journey, and Mangold has now officially inherited the same core flaw Zack Snyder's DCEU work had: too many ideas that are just not conveyed particularly well.

Helena: the most confusing character because I don't know what the actual arc ended up being. I can audibly hear Mangold randomly throwing in ideas every few minutes for threads they could elaborate on, but don't.
 
So I'm left with someone whose core flaws are really the only thing they enunciate without much of a proper journey to accompany them, a near complete opposite trajectory from where Rey from the ST ended up going.

Oh if we're gonna go that route, then I could say that based on what my sources tell me, I doubt Helena has gotten the same amount of attention that Rey had 

Helena: the most confusing character because I don't know what the actual arc ended up being. I can audibly hear Mangold randomly throwing in ideas every few minutes for threads they could elaborate on, but don't.
 
So I'm left with someone whose core flaws are really the only thing they enunciate without much of a proper journey to accompany them, a near complete opposite trajectory from where Rey from the ST ended up going.

Helena: the most confusing character because I don't know what the actual arc ended up being. I can audibly hear Mangold randomly throwing in ideas every few minutes for threads they could elaborate on, but don't.
 
So I'm left with someone whose core flaws are really the only thing they enunciate without much of a proper journey to accompany them, a near complete opposite trajectory from where Rey from the ST ended up going.

After the Rogue One and Solo debacles (to which Edwards still denies anything happened with the former, in spite of his "replacement" getting the Andor gig), I wouldn't be surprised if Lucasfilm applied extra pressure to maintain the facade that their productions have been smooth processes, even if it means letting blatant contradictions and people getting thrown under the bus through. Mangold can be given the okay to only say that he had a different concept in mind for the climax, but not for allowing JW's comments on the actual filming to be verified.

After the Rogue One and Solo debacles (to which Edwards still denies anything happened with the former, in spite of his "replacement" getting the Andor gig), I wouldn't be surprised if Lucasfilm applied extra pressure to maintain the facade that their productions have been smooth processes, even if it means letting blatant contradictions and people getting thrown under the bus through. Mangold can be given the okay to only say that he had a different concept in mind for the climax, but not for allowing JW's comments on the actual filming to be verified.