Tydirium

I guess it makes sense now why they waited so long to announce her as the composer: they were waiting to see if Bill Ross was able to write enough music, fast enough, to give him the main credit. 😆😩 Seriously though, here's my best guess at what happened: Holt gets hired, writes and records much if not all of her score. Either test audiences or someone high up is not happy, and realizes they've got a problem on their hands. They don't want to announce her and then have to later announce that she's been replaced (partly because of the optics in 2022 of potentially replacing "the first female Star Wars composer" with an old white male), so they hold off and see what can be done about it. Kathleen Kennedy reaches out to John Williams and asks if he can do it, but he responds "I only want to write a theme for Benny" (lol, part of me really does wonder if that was the context of that quote, but they spun it for their own PR purposes), but he suggests William Ross to help "fix" the score. JW writes his Obi-Wan theme in two weeks, effectively replacing Holt's Obi-Wan theme. Ross takes JW's theme and starts arranging and adapting it for various scenes in the show. He also tackles bigger moments like the Vader/Obi-Wan duel (and likely, more scenes in future episodes), that the higher ups feel absolutely do not work with Holt's score. Eventually, they do decide to announce Holt as the composer (likely because there's simply not enough time for Ross to replace virtually everything), but Ross still gets a high-level listing in the end credits, purportedly just for adapting the Obi-Wan theme... even though in truth he obviously did much more than just that, and ended up replacing multiple other big cues that were originally written by Holt/her team. What do you think? I don't think it's an unreasonable theory, given what we know. Ohhh, my bad. Sorry! EDIT: It’s also possible that the Vader/Obi duel was originally scored with Holt’s Kenobi theme, and that that’s why Ross scored that cue… But I’m still leaning more towards my theory that they were considering replacing her completely, due to how long they waited to announce her.

Lol, why did you react with a sleepy emoji to my comment with that rescored video featuring "Anakin's Dark Deeds"? Does that John Williams music bore you, while "BWAAAA BWAAAA" is somehow exciting?

Here's the thing: it's fine if these people like "epic music," whatever. But I don't understand how they fail to see that it just doesn't work in this particular case. I'm fine with watching a Pirates of the Caribbean movie and hearing the style of music that scores the Third Sister arriving at Fortress Inquisitorius. But I'm not fine with hearing that style in what is essentially Star Wars Episode 3.5. These people no doubt play Star Wars video games and have zero problem with Gordy Haab's music, they watch the classic Star Wars movies and have zero problem with Williams' music, etc. So it's not necessarily that they even have a problem with the classic Star Wars sound. Disney had nothing to lose by having this be a traditional SW score; everyone would have accepted the score and been thrilled. The frustrating thing is that there are people out there who—even though they would have been fine with a traditional score—will defend an inferior score that doesn't fit. The go-to argument seems to be that we are all just Williams purists who can't handle any other composers or musical styles... even though I enjoy Goransson's work, Kiner's work, the Star Wars Visions composers' work, and I'm sure I will enjoy Britell's work for Andor. It's such a simplistic viewpoint, and they're not taking the time to consider how this show is different from all the others. It's strange to me that we here at this forum seem to have a far better grasp on the importance of this show in the SW story (I mean, just consider the marketing, consider the show's place in the timeline, consider all the returning cast), than a lot of SW fans do.

My brother just showed me this video he found. What could have been... EDIT: LOL, posted this over at the main Star Wars sub on reddit: "It’s too loud for the scene. Focuses too much on Vader and not enough on the shock on Kenobi’s face. They did it better bud." "I think the score in the show matches the scene and tone better than this." "sorry mate but i'm not feelin' this." "There's more to Star Wars scoring than reusing old themes. There's a whole musical galaxy out there - you need to see that." I'm not saying that I think this "fix" is perfect; it's more like a temp track, and obviously it would have been done differently in the show if Ross or somebody scored it. Either way, I don't understand these people... It's depressing. Thankfully, I've seen a lot of SW fans elsewhere who have been calling out the problems with this show's score.

I've been re-listening through the episode, and I think you're right. I admit I wrongly judged that brass triplet spot a bit harshly initially; really I think it just felt jarring after all the RCP stuff I had been hearing. It does sound a lot closer to JW's style, and I also noticed that that cue actually starts a bit earlier, and continues to go on for quite a while... Notice how it's perfectly scored to line up with the scenes switching back and forth between Obi-Wan/Vader, Tala/Leia, and Reva. When Reva is snooping around, there is a very Star-Wars-y horn line that shows up a couple times (reminds me of the beginning of the new logo music), and the string writing for the Tala/Leia scenes also reminds me more of JW. The second brassy spot later in the duel actually reminds me a lot of Ross' score for Tale of Despereaux, namely this (start at 0:07): So, I think it's safe to say that he scored most of the duel! Yep, I agree completely. Love that horn solo of the Obi-Wan theme! It felt very classic-Star-Wars, and really stood apart from everything up to that point. I swear, if the cue for the duel doesn't get released and properly credited... Considering the fact that I think there are going to be two digital soundtrack albums of three episodes each (someone correct me if I'm wrong), they really have no good reason to leave any of the Ross stuff off. Come to think of it, I wonder who is primarily editing together the album; I hope Ross' music gets adequately represented. And really, his name ought to be included on the cover.

Ah, I see. My bad.

Why are you still here if you hate this thread? Nobody is making you read this thread.

Nobody is making you click on it…

Why not give Bill Ross the whole show, then? I think everybody would have been happy if he was the main guy.

Wow. You know exactly what I mean. John Williams defined a sound for the main saga over the course of multiple decades; there is definitely a traditional "Star Wars" sound. That's what I'm talking about here, but again, you know that. I don't mind the soundscape changing and evolving either. That's why I have no problem with Goransson's Mando, or the Kiners' Bad Batch, etc. I'm excited to see what Britell will do for Andor, and I don't expect him to sound like JW. I appreciate new contributions to the universe. "DNA" isn't good enough in this case. There is not a single statement of the Imperial March in the entire episode! Including the Vader scenes. Also, Giacchino's Imperial theme was one of my least favorite things about that score. It should have just been the Imperial March. I wouldn't count on it. Even if we get it later on, there's still no excuse for its absence from this episode. No, I enjoy those. I and others have addressed previously in this thread why this particular show is different. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about the fact that this show is essentially Episode 3.5 (and has been marketed as being directly tied to the prequels, baiting us with Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes in the trailers), and features the return of Ewan McGregor, Hayden Christensen, Joel Edgerton, Jimmy Smitts, etc. This isn't just any old Disney+ Star Wars show; this is supposed to be the biggest one yet, and the fact that it's a limited series rather than a multi-season affair, just goes to highlight that it's special. Why wouldn't you want/expect a continuation of the JW sound in this particular show? I don't care what kind of music they use for the other shows; all I wanted was this one show to sound like JW's Star Wars. The fact that you are assuming I am against other styles or other composers—when I have no problem with them—makes it seem like you really don't understand my point of view.

Don't think so. There's a theme that sounds a bit similar to the ANH stormtrooper theme... but remember, Holt said she composed her own stormtrooper theme. So, it's not that. It's really sad when you think of all the themes that one could reasonably expect to be in this show, based on the characters and locations... Battle of the Heroes, Imperial March, Qui-Gon's theme, Mustafar theme, Princess Leia's theme, stormtrooper theme, Force theme. Yet not one of those has really shown up yet. I just can't believe what a wasted opportunity this is.

Can you please just tell me how any of this sounds like Star Wars?

Just watched the third episode...

Which planet is going to have a "John Williams" vibe to it? That's the planet I'm excited to visit... (And don't say Tatooine; that's basically William Ross.) Also, Kamino had a very different sound in AOTC from Mustafar in ROTS, which had a different sound from Tatooine in ANH, etc. It's possible to make planets sound different, while still staying in the overall Star Wars musical language...

Couldn't have said it better! I agree 100%.

Wow. Earlier when I read your other comment, I remember thinking to myself, "This sounds like one of those people who would say 'Can't people just be glad we're getting new Star Wars?!'" Again: this mindset breeds mediocrity. I'm not just going to mindlessly "enjoy" any and every piece of crap that a multibillion dollar corporation puts out. And it's not like I'm unwilling to praise what I consider to be great Star Wars: I'm a big fan of the PT and OT, The Clone Wars, Rogue One, the KOTOR games, Jedi: Fallen Order, The Bad Batch; heck, I even like Rebels. Also enjoyed Mando for a while, though I'm starting to get tired of that one. And I'm very much looking forward to Andor and the new animated series Tales of the Jedi. But there has been a decent amount of content put out since Disney took over, that I do not feel is great (or even good!) Star Wars, and as a paying customer I'm not going to just sit here and pretend that it's all great and that there are no issues. And I and other fans should be allowed to express our complaints and disapproval (with the hope that the people in charge will do better in the future!) without being labeled "toxic" or "haters." In fact, for all the talk about the "toxicity" and "hate" (note that I never even said I "hate" anything, but even mere criticism tends to automatically get branded as "hate" these days) of the fandom, I'd argue that "toxic positivity"—the idea that everyone should just shut up and be thankful we're getting anything, as though our media overlords are being so incredibly gracious to give us any new Star Wars content—is a bigger problem. This mindless consumer mindset of just accepting and enjoying anything they crap out, only sends one message to Disney: that they don't actually have to work hard to deliver high-quality content, because people will always still watch and enjoy and make excuses for it, no matter what! Which results in more and more ever-inferior content. I get being glass-is-half-full, but come on.

There's no chance of your hypothetical situation ever happening, though... So why even say that? We knew we were getting an Obi-Wan Kenobi series, and we knew that somebody would have to compose music for it. That's why this forum had a thread with a poll about who would/should score it, months before the show came out. I don't understand this "It's better than NOTHING" mentality. Sounds like how people settle for mediocrity, which only encourages more mediocrity in the future.

Lol, it's funny how Disney & co. had no interest in George's ideas for the sequels, but now he gets cited (more like blamed) for stuff like this. Does anyone really believe that GL would have been against the Force theme being used for that big moment at the end of the second episode? Or against Leia's theme being used? I'd also love to hear her reason for not using the Imperial March or some other recognizable theme, to score the Vader reveal. Heck, even just reprising the last few bars of "Anakin's Dark Deeds" (the ostinato) would have been extremely effective... I haven't heard about any involvement from George Lucas on this particular show, until Holt's comment. And again, it's entirely possible that (1) she made it up, or (2) she's referencing some generic comment made by him in the past, to someone else/regarding a different show.

But if Holt didn't do it, you still wouldn't be getting nothing... You would potentially be getting someone better. I don't understand your point. The Kenobi show was still going to be made (and thus need a composer), regardless of whether or not it was Holt who scored it... There is no possible circumstance in which you would have gotten "nothing." Holt didn't even collaborate with John Williams, but we're supposed to believe she worked with George Lucas? How much you wanna bet she just saw/heard some old quote of George talking about the Force theme regarding a completely different project (if even that)?

Because Anakin is very different from Vader? To the point that in the OT, Obi-Wan even acts like they are two separate characters...

Why should she have a different theme as a kid...?

More like we're angered (not really surprised) that music not by John Williams is not as good as music by William Ross. We weren't looking for John Williams here, but there are other people out there who can do a much better job than what we're getting from Holt. Like William Ross, in this very show. Not sure what is so difficult to understand about that.

You do realize that the normies are always getting excited over hearing tunes like Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes in the trailers, right?

There are 44 tracks in that soundtrack alone, not to mention Haab's other SW soundtracks; sorry, but I find it a bit hard to believe that @DarthDementous just happened to pick your single favorite one, out of all that he's written...

Not only that, but I just realized: this isn't just some random action scene. This is Order 66, a major event that we've already seen on-screen multiple times (ROTS, Fallen Order, The Clone Wars, Bad Batch), and it's worth noting that every previous depiction of it has been scored with JW's music/themes. And not only that, but every previous depiction has expressed the extreme importance and tragedy of what's happening: this is the fall of the Jedi Order that has been around for thousands of years! Yet Holt treats it as though it is just some random clone trooper attack! It's totally possible to convey a sense of urgency in music, while still expressing tragedy and loss at the same time, but that's not what we got. Compare this Order 66 scene to any of the others, and it almost seems like a joke. It comes across that Holt has no clue about the importance of the event she scored here. Not a good way to start the show...