Tydirium

I don’t like Holt‘s stormtrooper theme. It’s a weak theme. Low brass in octaves with nothing else going on isn’t epic. It’s lazy. It’s what a first year composition student would write for an assignment.

Well if that's your point then you're just flat out wrong that Star Wars has always had haphazard continuity. From the release of Heir to the Empire to The Clone Wars movie the continuity within the expanded universe was a huge consideration and meticulously handled. Any contradictions that arose would actually be addressed and 90% of the time resolved in future media or from members of the Lucasfilm Story Group themselves who took great time and care to respond to fan concerns. The amount of interconnectivity was also insane, you'd be reading a comic set in the Clone Wars and it would be simultaneously referencing events from the Knights of the Old Republic comics, as well as setting up elements for the Thrawn Trilogy which doesn't occur until post-ROTJ

Now, when I say 'to The Clone Wars movie' I don't mean that they just stopped giving a shit about continuity after it came out, but rather the Lucasfilm Story Group faced some extreme continuity challenges. Your favorite person Chen, George Lucas, had allowed people to flesh out the area between the Prequel movies quite significantly on the stipulation that he wasn't going to touch it. However, in the mid 2000s he changed his mind and put together The Clone Wars which completely bull-dozed through the existing expanded universe to the point the story group had to come up with a band-aid fix known as 'T canon' which elevated TCW above all the rest of the expanded universe. Unfortunately, while this means that TCW could continue unfettered by any restraints to what was previously established in the era, other EU stories had to bend over backwards to blend the old stories with Lucas' and it became pretty messy. The interconnectivity remained however, and some of the best expanded universe works came out post-2007 so it wasn't a complete write-off

Come post the 2013 Disney buy-out and everything is erased except TCW. Theoretically, with this clean slate, continuity should be easier than ever to maintain but the values of the Lucasfilm Story Group shifted significantly and no longer was there the same attention to detail in the pre-Disney expanded universe. However, a bizarre paradox arose where they had the ambition to have everything that was created, be it video game or novel, from now on to be on the same level of canon as the movies. This ultimately proved to be an utter disaster and fell into the MCU trap of alienating the general audience by having events in movies heavily rely on expanded material to understand

So, from my point of view when I look at the absolute disastrous state of Star Wars these days I can't help but partly attribute it to de-prioritization of continuity. I also can't help but notice how unbelievably solid it was pre-Disney when that was a greater concern, and how it lead to richer stories and a far more cohesive-feeling universe that also managed to not feel homogenous

That is why I do not tolerate the idea that Star Wars should just continue on the death-march it's currently on because 'that's what it did in the past', because not only is that not entirely correct but it's the kind of attitude that breeds stagnation

This Episode was a bit better, and the music is still disappointing.  Where are the flourishes for heroism and Star Wars action?  How about some brass fanfares for our daring proto-rebels?  The music still doesn't feel like Star Wars.

Lol, this is legitimately sad if no one even recognized that it wasn't JW's original music.

An orchestrator takes sketches of a cue (often a piano score) and sets the music for the various instruments of the orchestra. Many times the choice of instruments is left up to the orchestrator’s preference, but in JW’s case, he uses his orchestrators more like copyists; he generally already has an idea of what instruments should play what music, and the orchestrators write it out for those instruments. It saves him a lot of time.
 
Arranging is a lot freer than orchestrating; the arranger simply takes a tune/theme/piece and does what they want with it. They do their own orchestration, they can play around with the harmonies, they can add countermelodies, etc.
 
Adapting (what Ross is doing in Kenobi) is similar to that, basically arranging but with a film element. Ross is taking JW’s Obi-Wan theme and adapting it to various scenes in the show, where it would fit. So, rather than JW picking every instance of when and where his Obi-Wan theme should show up, as he normally would as a film composer, instead Ross gets to choose. Think of it like this: Ross is a composer for the show, but the music he writes is primarily JW’s theme. However, he is free to orchestrate and arrange that theme as he pleases, and to use that theme where he wants to use it.
 
That’s already a lot of work, but the thing is, recent episodes have revealed that he is going even beyond that: he is evidently being asked to write entire lengthy cues (lengthier than many of Holt’s, even), for scenes as important as the Obi-Wan/Vader duel. That is a big deal, as ordinarily the main composer for a show or film (in this case Natalie Holt) would obviously score such an important scene.

Her answer about that makes no sense, though. She acts like these themes are in their "genesis" in between ROTS and ANH, but how? The themes were already present and developed by ROTS. By the time you get to this show chronologically, you've already heard Qui-Gon's theme in TPM; the Force theme in TPM, AOTC, ROTS; Leia's theme in ROTS; the Imperial March in AOTC, ROTS (with hints in Anakin's theme in TPM); the Mustafar theme in ROTS; the Order 66 music in ROTS. The Imperial March is even heard in both anthology films, Rogue One and Solo, and they both take place before ANH. Also, she talks about leading things to ANH, but the Imperial March isn't even in that movie...
 
The point is, these themes don't need to be "seeded"; they already exist in the universe. Many of them are even referenced in the animated shows that chronologically take place before this show (TCW, Bad Batch). Why do they need to be treated in this show as though they've never existed before? 
 
I'd also like to point out that she remembered the name of ANH, but drew a blank when it came to ROTS. Between her, and the writer Joby Harold also seemingly not having watched ROTS before writing the show based on recent remarks of his, it is no wonder that there are so many problems. This show is arguably more of a follow-up to ROTS, than it is a prequel to ANH. Even the marketing clearly reflects this.
 
There's no excuse for this.

This is actually a nightmare scenario wtf
 
Imagine using a generic trailer music style cover as the inspiration while filming instead of the actual iconic Williams piece. Utterly insane. No wonder the music sounds the way it does

Can’t remember if it’s this thread or not but yes it looks like they played Samuel Kims version on the set🙄

An orchestrator takes sketches of a cue (often a piano score) and sets the music for the various instruments of the orchestra. Many times the choice of instruments is left up to the orchestrator’s preference, but in JW’s case, he uses his orchestrators more like copyists; he generally already has an idea of what instruments should play what music, and the orchestrators write it out for those instruments. It saves him a lot of time.
 
Arranging is a lot freer than orchestrating; the arranger simply takes a tune/theme/piece and does what they want with it. They do their own orchestration, they can play around with the harmonies, they can add countermelodies, etc.
 
Adapting (what Ross is doing in Kenobi) is similar to that, basically arranging but with a film element. Ross is taking JW’s Obi-Wan theme and adapting it to various scenes in the show, where it would fit. So, rather than JW picking every instance of when and where his Obi-Wan theme should show up, as he normally would as a film composer, instead Ross gets to choose. Think of it like this: Ross is a composer for the show, but the music he writes is primarily JW’s theme. However, he is free to orchestrate and arrange that theme as he pleases, and to use that theme where he wants to use it.
 
That’s already a lot of work, but the thing is, recent episodes have revealed that he is going even beyond that: he is evidently being asked to write entire lengthy cues (lengthier than many of Holt’s, even), for scenes as important as the Obi-Wan/Vader duel. That is a big deal, as ordinarily the main composer for a show or film (in this case Natalie Holt) would obviously score such an important scene.

Her answer about that makes no sense, though. She acts like these themes are in their "genesis" in between ROTS and ANH, but how? The themes were already present and developed by ROTS. By the time you get to this show chronologically, you've already heard Qui-Gon's theme in TPM; the Force theme in TPM, AOTC, ROTS; Leia's theme in ROTS; the Imperial March in AOTC, ROTS (with hints in Anakin's theme in TPM); the Mustafar theme in ROTS; the Order 66 music in ROTS. The Imperial March is even heard in both anthology films, Rogue One and Solo, and they both take place before ANH. Also, she talks about leading things to ANH, but the Imperial March isn't even in that movie...
 
The point is, these themes don't need to be "seeded"; they already exist in the universe. Many of them are even referenced in the animated shows that chronologically take place before this show (TCW, Bad Batch). Why do they need to be treated in this show as though they've never existed before? 
 
I'd also like to point out that she remembered the name of ANH, but drew a blank when it came to ROTS. Between her, and the writer Joby Harold also seemingly not having watched ROTS before writing the show based on recent remarks of his, it is no wonder that there are so many problems. This show is arguably more of a follow-up to ROTS, than it is a prequel to ANH. Even the marketing clearly reflects this.
 
There's no excuse for this.

An orchestrator takes sketches of a cue (often a piano score) and sets the music for the various instruments of the orchestra. Many times the choice of instruments is left up to the orchestrator’s preference, but in JW’s case, he uses his orchestrators more like copyists; he generally already has an idea of what instruments should play what music, and the orchestrators write it out for those instruments. It saves him a lot of time.
 
Arranging is a lot freer than orchestrating; the arranger simply takes a tune/theme/piece and does what they want with it. They do their own orchestration, they can play around with the harmonies, they can add countermelodies, etc.
 
Adapting (what Ross is doing in Kenobi) is similar to that, basically arranging but with a film element. Ross is taking JW’s Obi-Wan theme and adapting it to various scenes in the show, where it would fit. So, rather than JW picking every instance of when and where his Obi-Wan theme should show up, as he normally would as a film composer, instead Ross gets to choose. Think of it like this: Ross is a composer for the show, but the music he writes is primarily JW’s theme. However, he is free to orchestrate and arrange that theme as he pleases, and to use that theme where he wants to use it.
 
That’s already a lot of work, but the thing is, recent episodes have revealed that he is going even beyond that: he is evidently being asked to write entire lengthy cues (lengthier than many of Holt’s, even), for scenes as important as the Obi-Wan/Vader duel. That is a big deal, as ordinarily the main composer for a show or film (in this case Natalie Holt) would obviously score such an important scene.

An orchestrator takes sketches of a cue (often a piano score) and sets the music for the various instruments of the orchestra. Many times the choice of instruments is left up to the orchestrator’s preference, but in JW’s case, he uses his orchestrators more like copyists; he generally already has an idea of what instruments should play what music, and the orchestrators write it out for those instruments. It saves him a lot of time.
 
Arranging is a lot freer than orchestrating; the arranger simply takes a tune/theme/piece and does what they want with it. They do their own orchestration, they can play around with the harmonies, they can add countermelodies, etc.
 
Adapting (what Ross is doing in Kenobi) is similar to that, basically arranging but with a film element. Ross is taking JW’s Obi-Wan theme and adapting it to various scenes in the show, where it would fit. So, rather than JW picking every instance of when and where his Obi-Wan theme should show up, as he normally would as a film composer, instead Ross gets to choose. Think of it like this: Ross is a composer for the show, but the music he writes is primarily JW’s theme. However, he is free to orchestrate and arrange that theme as he pleases, and to use that theme where he wants to use it.
 
That’s already a lot of work, but the thing is, recent episodes have revealed that he is going even beyond that: he is evidently being asked to write entire lengthy cues (lengthier than many of Holt’s, even), for scenes as important as the Obi-Wan/Vader duel. That is a big deal, as ordinarily the main composer for a show or film (in this case Natalie Holt) would obviously score such an important scene.

An orchestrator takes sketches of a cue (often a piano score) and sets the music for the various instruments of the orchestra. Many times the choice of instruments is left up to the orchestrator’s preference, but in JW’s case, he uses his orchestrators more like copyists; he generally already has an idea of what instruments should play what music, and the orchestrators write it out for those instruments. It saves him a lot of time.
 
Arranging is a lot freer than orchestrating; the arranger simply takes a tune/theme/piece and does what they want with it. They do their own orchestration, they can play around with the harmonies, they can add countermelodies, etc.
 
Adapting (what Ross is doing in Kenobi) is similar to that, basically arranging but with a film element. Ross is taking JW’s Obi-Wan theme and adapting it to various scenes in the show, where it would fit. So, rather than JW picking every instance of when and where his Obi-Wan theme should show up, as he normally would as a film composer, instead Ross gets to choose. Think of it like this: Ross is a composer for the show, but the music he writes is primarily JW’s theme. However, he is free to orchestrate and arrange that theme as he pleases, and to use that theme where he wants to use it.
 
That’s already a lot of work, but the thing is, recent episodes have revealed that he is going even beyond that: he is evidently being asked to write entire lengthy cues (lengthier than many of Holt’s, even), for scenes as important as the Obi-Wan/Vader duel. That is a big deal, as ordinarily the main composer for a show or film (in this case Natalie Holt) would obviously score such an important scene.

^ I cannot listen to his voice without picturing this guy:
 

 
"No, Beavis.  Natalie's showing that she understands and gets Star Wars better than anyone to date, M-kay?"
 
 
 
Your Fode and Beed one is a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.  The previous headswap gave me the willies.  The new one is hilarious. 
 
 

Is this guy on crack? Listen to what he says here...
 
 

I posted a link to the video interview over on reddit:
 
 
Already over a hundred comments, pretty much all bashing the score. 😳

Here’s a comment I made back when we were discussing this:
 
https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34590-natalie-holts-obi-wan-kenobi-2022/page/9/#comment-1889238
 
Since then, I’m even more certain that Ross did the Obi/Vader duel. In addition to his “adapting” credit, in episode 4 he also got an “additional music” credit. The music for the Obi-Wan hallway fight both felt very Star-Wars-y, and included JW’s Obi-Wan theme. All you need to assume Ross did it is the presence of the Obi-Wan theme, but the cue goes well beyond that theme, and also features orchestration (and sound mix/orchestra performance) that sounds just like the Obi/Vader duel in the previous episode. And again, as I said in my linked comment and as @Luke Skywalker said above, there is music in that duel that resembles Ross’ Tale of Despereaux score.

The problem is I can't say it's been well done. I've heard no "seeds" of any kind so far. What does it mean to "seed"? Is she partially stating a few notes of a character theme? Is she using the same chords? Where are these "seeds" she's referring to? Am I deaf? Maybe she's so technically gifted, she hid them behind loads of musical grammar that few can decipher. I just don't know. We've had multiple episodes of major legacy characters on screen. We should've heard something obvious by now.
 
If ep6 contains everything I wanted, I'd go with it. Better late than never, I said. However, it could've been super effective if she better prepared the audience for the full statement of the themes. I'm not a composer, so I can't comment on exactly how she could do that. It's her job to figure that out.

Her answer about that makes no sense, though. She acts like these themes are in their "genesis" in between ROTS and ANH, but how? The themes were already present and developed by ROTS. By the time you get to this show chronologically, you've already heard Qui-Gon's theme in TPM; the Force theme in TPM, AOTC, ROTS; Leia's theme in ROTS; the Imperial March in AOTC, ROTS (with hints in Anakin's theme in TPM); the Mustafar theme in ROTS; the Order 66 music in ROTS. The Imperial March is even heard in both anthology films, Rogue One and Solo, and they both take place before ANH. Also, she talks about leading things to ANH, but the Imperial March isn't even in that movie...
 
The point is, these themes don't need to be "seeded"; they already exist in the universe. Many of them are even referenced in the animated shows that chronologically take place before this show (TCW, Bad Batch). Why do they need to be treated in this show as though they've never existed before? 
 
I'd also like to point out that she remembered the name of ANH, but drew a blank when it came to ROTS. Between her, and the writer Joby Harold also seemingly not having watched ROTS before writing the show based on recent remarks of his, it is no wonder that there are so many problems. This show is arguably more of a follow-up to ROTS, than it is a prequel to ANH. Even the marketing clearly reflects this.
 
There's no excuse for this.

An orchestrator takes sketches of a cue (often a piano score) and sets the music for the various instruments of the orchestra. Many times the choice of instruments is left up to the orchestrator’s preference, but in JW’s case, he uses his orchestrators more like copyists; he generally already has an idea of what instruments should play what music, and the orchestrators write it out for those instruments. It saves him a lot of time.
 
Arranging is a lot freer than orchestrating; the arranger simply takes a tune/theme/piece and does what they want with it. They do their own orchestration, they can play around with the harmonies, they can add countermelodies, etc.
 
Adapting (what Ross is doing in Kenobi) is similar to that, basically arranging but with a film element. Ross is taking JW’s Obi-Wan theme and adapting it to various scenes in the show, where it would fit. So, rather than JW picking every instance of when and where his Obi-Wan theme should show up, as he normally would as a film composer, instead Ross gets to choose. Think of it like this: Ross is a composer for the show, but the music he writes is primarily JW’s theme. However, he is free to orchestrate and arrange that theme as he pleases, and to use that theme where he wants to use it.
 
That’s already a lot of work, but the thing is, recent episodes have revealed that he is going even beyond that: he is evidently being asked to write entire lengthy cues (lengthier than many of Holt’s, even), for scenes as important as the Obi-Wan/Vader duel. That is a big deal, as ordinarily the main composer for a show or film (in this case Natalie Holt) would obviously score such an important scene.

Her answer about that makes no sense, though. She acts like these themes are in their "genesis" in between ROTS and ANH, but how? The themes were already present and developed by ROTS. By the time you get to this show chronologically, you've already heard Qui-Gon's theme in TPM; the Force theme in TPM, AOTC, ROTS; Leia's theme in ROTS; the Imperial March in AOTC, ROTS (with hints in Anakin's theme in TPM); the Mustafar theme in ROTS; the Order 66 music in ROTS. The Imperial March is even heard in both anthology films, Rogue One and Solo, and they both take place before ANH. Also, she talks about leading things to ANH, but the Imperial March isn't even in that movie...
 
The point is, these themes don't need to be "seeded"; they already exist in the universe. Many of them are even referenced in the animated shows that chronologically take place before this show (TCW, Bad Batch). Why do they need to be treated in this show as though they've never existed before? 
 
I'd also like to point out that she remembered the name of ANH, but drew a blank when it came to ROTS. Between her, and the writer Joby Harold also seemingly not having watched ROTS before writing the show based on recent remarks of his, it is no wonder that there are so many problems. This show is arguably more of a follow-up to ROTS, than it is a prequel to ANH. Even the marketing clearly reflects this.
 
There's no excuse for this.

An orchestrator takes sketches of a cue (often a piano score) and sets the music for the various instruments of the orchestra. Many times the choice of instruments is left up to the orchestrator’s preference, but in JW’s case, he uses his orchestrators more like copyists; he generally already has an idea of what instruments should play what music, and the orchestrators write it out for those instruments. It saves him a lot of time.
 
Arranging is a lot freer than orchestrating; the arranger simply takes a tune/theme/piece and does what they want with it. They do their own orchestration, they can play around with the harmonies, they can add countermelodies, etc.
 
Adapting (what Ross is doing in Kenobi) is similar to that, basically arranging but with a film element. Ross is taking JW’s Obi-Wan theme and adapting it to various scenes in the show, where it would fit. So, rather than JW picking every instance of when and where his Obi-Wan theme should show up, as he normally would as a film composer, instead Ross gets to choose. Think of it like this: Ross is a composer for the show, but the music he writes is primarily JW’s theme. However, he is free to orchestrate and arrange that theme as he pleases, and to use that theme where he wants to use it.
 
That’s already a lot of work, but the thing is, recent episodes have revealed that he is going even beyond that: he is evidently being asked to write entire lengthy cues (lengthier than many of Holt’s, even), for scenes as important as the Obi-Wan/Vader duel. That is a big deal, as ordinarily the main composer for a show or film (in this case Natalie Holt) would obviously score such an important scene.

Not a single mention of obiwan on Holt’s site, she had loki up on the first episode

Aside from the orchestration and feeling, i think some resembled a cue in talenof desperaux score by ross, a score which i dont think holt would quote….