Amvanquish

So pleased that our late Queen Elizabeth 2nd honoured John Williams with this knighthood and was one of the very last things she signed off on before she died. Sir John Williams KBE - well done maestro!! And I don’t care, being a Brit as far as I’m concerned, he deserves to have Sir before his name because he has said many a time that he is a true Anglophile . I just hope that he gets the opportunity to get back to the U.K. and give a workout to the LSO because I feel in no uncertain terms , and I’m sure Sir John would agree, they helped contribute to his knighthood performing so many of his wonderful scores

I’ve no idea who @mattris is but thanks for the compliment Yes Jurassic it was a very interesting and challenging job, Basically about 30 of us determined about 90% of what the country saw in the U.K. cinemas . Sometimes if we didn’t think the film was commercially viable it would go straight to vid and, if it was ,we could make suggestions to the film distributor on its release date . We we’re in the unique position of seeing the film before the censor or film critics . Also for the benefit of the uneducated I personally knew the owners of National Screen Service in Perivale West London who supplied and made the film trailers and marketing materials for all the films ( NSS was also right next to Rank Film Distribution who supplied every film to every cinema in the U.K. and I know to this day the Operations Manager of that film service); and I had the privilege of watching trailers being made and how the music was put on and from where . I take it Jurassic that Mahler3 has contacted you and confirmed my credentials then?

I know what you are saying Crumbs but I did say pickups and extra shoots in a script are common - but this is a new ending being reshot

It’s definitely a burden when nearly all your other productions pushed into cinemas haven’t produced the expected returns and Disney plus are experiencing a backlash from the public and subscribers not happy with the way some animation is going with certain political , eco and gender perspectives being pushed. The public will vote by not buying a cinema ticket and if that’s a family of four , for Disney the revenue loss will be colossal. And when you get Disney executives saying that the public should not be addressed as “ ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls” in their theme parks you start to wonder just what the hell is going on in their film making divisions including Fox and Paramount that they took over.

I’m not - I’m questioning why Indiana Jones needs a new ending and John Williams has said a new ending needs to be rescored. That’s not trolling but now if you look all over social media - it’s alight with speculation as to what’s gone wrong and why it needs a new ending. And as an industry professional I’m afraid I’m baffled as to why it has needed a new one .It’s quite a rarity in the industry after principal photography has wrapped. Reshoots and pickups are common in a script but not a new ending which JW has said needs a reshoot and a rescore. Do you not realize how important that is and may cost quite a few million dollars/pounds to achieve? For Harrison to come back for a few days more work might be more than a 6 figure payment and affect other contractual obligations . Although he said at ( was it Comecon) that he was happy with it , somebody high up obviously wasn’t .Speculating, the box office returns may have something to do with it and certain execs or maybe even Lucas and Spielberg are worried about the ending and the fan base and have stepped in. Oh well - we shall no doubt find out in due course

How do you know that?? The greatest art of deception sometimes is to make out that you are somebody else who spins a line but creates a conversation that questions the narrative

Have you not wondered that because he has a mask - that he may actually be an industry professional ,has a computer generated voice and doesn’t want you to know who he really is . Its something to consider, there are whistleblowers you know who do get to certain positions and usually often quote the line that they cannot say much because they are “ in the house “ .

Yes Crumbs but sometimes these guys have industry contacts which happen to be correct. And I have to say 10 months after filming finished in February 2022 when Mangold said it was a wrap . He tweeted that . And now JW has said there’s a different ending a reshoot so needs a rescore. Surely after what John Williams said in Milan , it’s worth questioning what was wrong with the original ending . And it’s not a bizarre joke Mannakin. I find it somewhat strange that the film has required a new ending . So what was wrong with it ?

No I was the Senior Film Buyer for UCI , Warner Village and Vue cinemas working out of their Head Offices in Central London. Sometimes I’d watch 4 maybe 5 films a day of all genres then would make a decision as to whether to negotiate a deal to show them and and what size of screen I would put them in , whether we had 2/3 or 4 prints of a major film for release like a Bond or Star Wars film for scheduling purposes - each print and it’s revenue would be negotiated separately . I’d go to premieres nearly every week and be in screening rooms morning noon and night

I’m sure Jurassic Shark , Tim will provide you with the answer but the position I was in was quite powerful. I would sometimes see a working print of a film with temp music on and before film critics did and in some instances I was able to make suggestions to the film maker who sometimes sat in on the screenings with me or my equivalent industry colleagues. i sometimes made the suggestion that if you took that swear word out or redubbed it , you could change it from a 15 cert to a 12A and get an extra £5m-£10m at the box office , dependent sometimes on where it was positioned datewise and what other films were being released close to it. And sometimes those changes happened especially if it was a British film. We now know that the move was gradually made in the nineties by film makers to then create two versions and scenes shot twice with different language, A PG version for airlines and hotels, whilst a 12A/15 cert version would be in the cinema. So I was very much in the scheme of things as the industry evolved with video, CD , DVDs and eventually social media streaming

I suggest you ask Tim Burden He will confirm who I am and what I have done in the U.K. Film Exhibition industry for over 20 years.

I’m no troll and I take it you’ve watched all of it (I stumbled upon it 20 minutes ago and it opened my eyes)- but if Mangold is quoting this guy in Twitter tweets then ,who knows, maybe what he says should be considered. Maybe the ending was too woke for those who may have seen the film at test screenings. If Indiana through a time machine is wiped from existence leaving a woman to be the new Indiana Jones - god daughter or not - how do you think the fan base would feel ? And a day into its release the box office would plummet . The same can be said of James Bond who in Ian Flemings books is a white Caucasian misogynist playboy spy . Change that and you’ve lost the plot and the franchise. The first thing you would say after seeing Indiana next June would likely to be - why wasn’t this sorted out before it was released and corrected. All things should be discussed not dismissed regardless of whether you like it or not. I happen to listen to all points of view to build a picture regardless of how crazy it might be - sometimes they might just be right! Also I don’t dismiss trailer music - I’ve watched quite a few trailers in my time and some of the music composed has been quite good . Sometimes the main composers may write a 2 minute segment and give it to trailer companies to orchestrate and score using computerised decks to achieve a full orchestral score. Clearly none of you criticising me have worked in the industry like I have. However, back to Indiana Jones principal photography wrapped, that’s it WRAPPED, in February 2022, pickup shots etc are always the norm , but 10 months afterwards a new ending??? But when a writer in some of the trades says there has been screenings refuting what Mangold has said - then there should be questions asked. Maybe JW let something out of the bag in Milan? It’s going to be a very interesting next few weeks with leaks coming thick and fast which we will have to sift through . How bad did the ending have to be to warrant a new ending and reshoot ? That’s the question to be asked!

Well this guy seems to know a bit and quotes JW This guy who has the YT OverlordDVD seems to have personally riled Mangold

So this is interesting. Williams was conducting his music in Milan last night and he said there is a new ending to shoot for Indiana 5 and which needs to be scored. Most interesting as per this concert report below Concert report by Jason LeBlanc (original post) Best pieces / performances were Helena’s Theme, Princees Leia’s Theme, Schindler’s List. He mixed up Fawkes with Buckbeak, Empire with Jedi, the ET moon with the ET sunset, and seemed to take longer to tell the usual stories than their best more succinct versions He said there was a new ending to “shoot” and then score for Indiana Jones 5! But it was overall very special, he seemed to really cherish the experience, and the orchestra seemed to really give it their best. Williams made sure to highlight the soloists and they deserved it. So the score was not completed in mid October - more work to do for JW with a new ending then. I wonder who wasn’t happy with the ending ? Producer , Director , Disney Execs?? Or did they have a test screening and have reacted to comments ? Im wondering now if Spielberg has made some suggestions or some improvements to tighten or expand the edit.

Thx Crumbs for that info