Monoverantus

Yeah people bring up the pagecount but a lot happens in the book and I don't see any way to make it 1 movie other than butchering the hell out of it. That split could have been great tonewise too, whimsical adventure vs more mature scheming and betrayal and greed.

Yeah, look. I enjoyed the Infinity Saga and thought Endgame was a fitting conclusion. That said, like Chen I'm not a huge MCU fan, but at the same time I don't share Chen's contempt for it. Obviously, I'd never compare Endgame to ROTK. My casual enjoyment of Endgame can't hold a candle to the deep love I have for ROTK, both the book and film.

But..neither Chen nor I are MCU fanboys, and neither of us is really in a position to judge the payoff of Endgame the way an MCU fan is. We can talk all we want about whether it's a proper "resolution" of all the Marvel films, and how much it's really tied into what came before. But you know what? So what.
 
MCU fans can also point out how disjointed and sometimes tenuous the connection between Jackson's LOTR and The Hobbit, and how forced a lot of those connections were in the latter. ROTK is not a conclusion to the "Middle-Earth Saga". It's the conclusion to LOTR. Just as AUJ is not the first chapter in that saga, it's the first film in the Hobbit trilogy. Just as BOTFA is not a "bridge" between the trilogies, no matter how much they tried to force that, it's merely the end of one. 
 
My point is, if Endgame is just satisfying an end to most MCU fans as ROTK is to LOTR fans, that's good enough for me. Like DS9's phenomenal What You Leave Behind, Endgame didn't need to specifically resolve every little plot thread. As it is, I thought Endgame was a pretty damn good finale, and in fact exceeded exceptions where most finales disappoint.

My Little Pony (or What Happened To Bill After The Mines Of Moria)

I wonder what will they think of next to "adapt". A single page from a part of LotR they left out of the movies?
 
I have zero interest in any Tolkien adaptations after the Hobbit, which itself was a enormous mixed bag that suffered from the Lucas style Prequelitis (more CGI and "bigger is better" mentality). But this endless milking of Tolkien's works with such creatively bankrupt projects is simply awful. 

Magpie'sNest resources / @Monoverantus might be of help here!

Not really seeing a lot of black keys here (perhaps for understandable reasons) but I would add:
 
A major (chromaticized) = Rivendell
A Dorian = Rohan
A minor = Dwarves, Nature, The Seduction of the Ring
A minor (chromaticized) = "Evil" chords
Bb Dorian = Bard
B minor = Arkenstone
C Pentatonic = Hobbits, The Grey Havens
C Lydian = Eowyn, Minas Tirith
C minor = Grima (Ahem...)
Db (chromaticized) = Ents
D major (chromaticized) = the Fellowship, Gondor
D Pentatonic = Hobbits, The Grey Havens
D Dorian = Gondor, Laketown
D Phrygian = Woodland Realm
D Harmonic Minor = Sauron
D minor = Fussy Bilbo, Sauron, Ringwraiths, Isengard,
Eb??? does any theme ever play in Eb???
E minor = Aragorn and Arwen (also E major), Wargs, Rohan, Gondor Reborn
F Lydian = Eowyn's pining for Aragorn
F Phrygian Dominant = Galadriel, Smaug
F# minor (chromaticized) = The Journey There, Galadriel's Powers
G major = Hobbits
G♯ minor ≈ A♭ minor (chromaticized) = The Ring
Atonal = Spiders
 

Easy peasy

Easy peasy

Easy peasy

That I can agree with.
In polite society? No. On a forum tailor-made for this exact level of obsessive pedantry?

Sure. The one small objection I'd propose is contextual: both in the prologue and before the walls of Moria, the progression is immediately preceded by the Ring, so our ears are primed to hear it as a "chordal" voicing of its opening notes.

Found another: the first Shire theme in the Theatrical cut, which makes sense following the Ebm-Eb progression that ends the Prologue. But yeah, Howard Shore is apparently no fan of Eb.
 
Yes, or rather the complete Fm-Em-Fm-Em-Abm-Gm-Abm-Gm version that plays like 5 times in Fellowship. But since we're technically not looking for any time a theme plays in a certain key, but what theme a key is most commonly associated with, I think it's fair to say neither Eb or Ab have a such a thing.
 
I actually fixed this by putting Minas Tirith in C Lydian but then forgot to remove that line
Also worth mentioning that the Sauron/Mordor theme technically isn't in harmonic minor either. The melody uses the C#, but the accompaniments (Mordor Skip-Beat and Descending Thirds) always play in normal minor (with C naturals). Which means that just like the History of the Ring, the first tone is out-of-key, or more correctly a chromatic half-step resolution to either the root or fifth. The resulting dissonance between melody and accompaniment is the whole point.

It's C Lydian (for the secondary Gondor theme, "Minas Tirith") then E minor (then major) for its transformation. I got my keys confused. 

The Gondor theme plays in Eb minor in the opening of "Osgiliath Invaded"
 
You both said this. Where? You mean the A♭m statement of the Ring theme in the Prologue?
 
Anyway, yeah, thanks Mono for doing exactly what I was about to do while reading Chen's post: differentiate between Phrygian dominant and harmonic minor.
Sauron is very clearly related (mostly) to D harmonic minor, hence the D pedal hammering beneath his theme at least once in every film. The theme itself goes C#–D–C#–Bb, which is literally the harmonic minor's main characteristic:
 
D–E–F–G–A–Bb–C#–D
 
We also get statements of his theme in double harmonic minor, which would be:
 
D–E–F–G#–A–Bb–C#–D
 
D Phrygian dominant would be:
 
D–Eb–F#–G–A–Bb–C–D
 
Sorry for being pedantic 
 
On another note... E Lydian for Gondor? Where?

Not really seeing a lot of black keys here (perhaps for understandable reasons) but I would add:
 
A major (chromaticized) = Rivendell
A Dorian = Rohan
A minor = Dwarves, Nature, The Seduction of the Ring
A minor (chromaticized) = "Evil" chords
Bb Dorian = Bard
B minor = Arkenstone
C Pentatonic = Hobbits, The Grey Havens
C Lydian = Eowyn, Minas Tirith
C minor = Grima (Ahem...)
Db (chromaticized) = Ents
D major (chromaticized) = the Fellowship, Gondor
D Pentatonic = Hobbits, The Grey Havens
D Dorian = Gondor, Laketown
D Phrygian = Woodland Realm
D Harmonic Minor = Sauron
D minor = Fussy Bilbo, Sauron, Ringwraiths, Isengard,
Eb??? does any theme ever play in Eb???
E minor = Aragorn and Arwen (also E major), Wargs, Rohan, Gondor Reborn
F Lydian = Eowyn's pining for Aragorn
F Phrygian Dominant = Galadriel, Smaug
F# minor (chromaticized) = The Journey There, Galadriel's Powers
G major = Hobbits
G♯ minor ≈ A♭ minor (chromaticized) = The Ring
Atonal = Spiders
 

Not really seeing a lot of black keys here (perhaps for understandable reasons) but I would add:
 
A major (chromaticized) = Rivendell
A Dorian = Rohan
A minor = Dwarves, Nature, The Seduction of the Ring
A minor (chromaticized) = "Evil" chords
Bb Dorian = Bard
B minor = Arkenstone
C Pentatonic = Hobbits, The Grey Havens
C Lydian = Eowyn, Minas Tirith
C minor = Grima (Ahem...)
Db (chromaticized) = Ents
D major (chromaticized) = the Fellowship, Gondor
D Pentatonic = Hobbits, The Grey Havens
D Dorian = Gondor, Laketown
D Phrygian = Woodland Realm
D Harmonic Minor = Sauron
D minor = Fussy Bilbo, Sauron, Ringwraiths, Isengard,
Eb??? does any theme ever play in Eb???
E minor = Aragorn and Arwen (also E major), Wargs, Rohan, Gondor Reborn
F Lydian = Eowyn's pining for Aragorn
F Phrygian Dominant = Galadriel, Smaug
F# minor (chromaticized) = The Journey There, Galadriel's Powers
G major = Hobbits
G♯ minor ≈ A♭ minor (chromaticized) = The Ring
Atonal = Spiders
 

I know. 
 
It would be fun to do a scheme or list of associative tonalities and modalities. It would be something like:
 
A major (chromaticized) = Rivendell
A Dorian = Rohan
A minor = Dwarves
A minor (chromaticized) = "Evil" chords
B minor = Arkenstone
C Pentatonic = Hobbits
C Lydian = Eowyn
C minor = Grima (Ahem...)
D major (chromaticized) = the Fellowship
D Pentatonic = Hobbits
D Dorian = Gondor, Laketown
D Phrygian = Woodland Realm
D Phrygian Dominant = Sauron
D minor = Fussy Bilbo, Sauron
E Lydian = Gondor
E minor = Aragorn and Arwen (also E major), Wargs, Rohan 
F Lydian = Eowyn's pining for Aragorn
F Phrygian Dominant = Galadriel, Smaug
G♯ minor ≈ A♭ harmonic minor (chromaticized) = The Ring
Atonal = Spiders

And now here is potentially The Siege of Gondor presented as originally written, based on cue names and numbers on sheet music in the Use Well the Days DVD Doc:

 

 
Contains: Allegiance to Denethor, The Sacrifice of Faramir, The Siege of Gondor (Rarities version + Theatrical Version with mockup of unused strings from L2P sheet music)

@Monoverantus @Chen G. @Jay @VenomVeVenom @Bofur01 @Incanus @Barnald @BloodBoal @Jim Ware

Per @Jim Ware's post here, here is Minas Tirith (602) presented to picture as originally written for the early scene order when Faramir arrived at Minas Tirith from Osgiliath at the same time as Gandalf and Pippin:

 

 
Contains: The Eyes of the White Tower, The Lighting of the Beacons (Theatrical Version + OST take + Unused choir ripped from L2P)
 
S@Monoverantus @Chen G. @Jay @VenomVeVenom @Bofur01 @Incanus @Barnald @BloodBoal

Well, I liked Monoverantus' the best!

I like that!

Completely forgot about that one. It's been a long time since I watched those films.
 
In this particular case, I guess you could say Shore used this theme because it would be realistically easier for the horn blower to play that theme than Thorin's theme. 
 
 
 
I don't know.
 
I know you something against more, shall we say, "poetic" theme names but I prefer them because, pedantic as may appear, at least they are more evocative than the terribly pedestrian "First Dwarven Theme", "Second Dwarven Theme", etc... Also, they are easier to remember and less likely to cause confusion. Would you remember which theme people consider to be the "First Dwarven Theme", the "Second Dwarven Theme" and so on?
 
The example you posted honestly seems awful to me. Theme 56? Theme LXII****? How is anyone supposed to remember what this is referring to?
 
Discussing with those scholars must feel like having a conversation with a robot!
 
- "Which theme do you prefer in Wagner 's Der Ring des Nibelungen?"
 
- "Well, I quite like the theme n°10011010101, and the theme n°01011110101 is quite impressive. But my personal favourite is n°10100010101."

While I understand the point you are trying to make, and there is some truth to it for sure, just because themes cover a wide range of ideas/are used in a variety of contexts does not mean there can be no indexicality to them.
 
Anyway, just because someone labels a theme as Thorin's theme, or Bard's theme or whatever does not mean that is the only use for the theme, and the only thing it is meant to represent. It is mainly a simple way to refer to that melody without resorting to sentences like: "I like the melody that goes bum bum bumbumbum bum bum bumbum when Thorin is killing orcs at the battle of Azanulbizar!" or "Love that statement of the dun-dun dun-dun dun-dun theme when they finally reach Erebor!"
 
You may think: "The theme referred to as Thorin's is more of a general theme for the Dwarves. And so is the theme referred to as Erebor's. And the one they call the House Of Durin. Really, they should just be called Dwarven Theme #1, Dwarven Theme #2 and Dwarven Theme #3" but I hope you can see how that is not really helpful.
 
Having simple labels like Smaug's theme, Bilbo's theme and others may not be entirely appropriate when it comes to pinpointing exactly how the themes are used/what they truly represent but it definitely makes it easier to discuss the music. That is all.
 
On a sidenote: that reminds me of people, back in the days, wondering what the bonus track titled Erebor was all about, since it did not feature the melody people refer to as the actual Erebor theme, but instead a melody some like to call Bilbo's Adventure. That is because people interpreted this track title as (The kingdom of) Erebor but personally, I thought the title could be interpreted as (The journey to) Erebor. So, yes, a same label can be interpreted differently but to say that because of that, nothing should be labelled can hardly be considered the perfect answer to that "problem".
 
Our hobby is very open to interpretation in a lot of cases, and as with most things open to interpretation, people will never fully agree about which is the right way to look at things. Some look at the world and say: "There is a purpose for every single thing. The course of our lives is predetermined by fate", other look at the worl and think: "That is all there is. There is no hidden meaning behind any of it." 
 
Who is wrong, who is right? Only Doug can tell us. Does Doug believe in free will?
 
 
Ha! So Shore used the House Of Durin theme for Thorin's funeral, and not the Erebor theme, as Chen stated.
 
 
Mind you, I assume he was thinking of the tracked Erebor theme statement (from Fire And Water, if I'm not mistaken) that is heard in the film.

Using the choir model, I was able to get the unused Parth Galen Nazgul choir without Saruman chanting over it ( by using a different source, the Prologue previs.
  Parth Galen Missing Choir Restored section jwfan.mp3  

@Monoverantus @Jim Ware @Chen G. @BloodBoal @Jay @Incanus @Barnald @Bofur01 @enderdrag64

Unused choir from Lighting of the Beacons from Return of the king ripped from the L2P added in after remixing it to stereo with MVsep:
  Lighting of the Beacons LTP Ending 2 jwfan.mp3