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Tom Guernsey reacted to Naïve Old Fart in What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)
Tru, dat.
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from Thor in What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)
Alice in Wonderland by Richard Hartley (his brother JR wrote a book about fly fishing...). One of a run of Hallmark (and probably other network) TV movies in the late 90s with delightful orchestral scores by Richard Hartley and Richard Harvey (neatly next to each other in iTunes). Hartley's score to Alice is much more playful than the somewhat urgent sound of Elfman's score for the Burton version, perhaps closer in spirit to the John Barry score for the 70s version. However, where those two composers are pretty readily identifiable, Hartley's score is more of a mashup of 80s and 90s feature scores, notably bits of Hook and Casper, plus others I've almost certainly missed. Not the most original, but charming and tuneful all the same. The songs are silly but fun and entirely appropriate.
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from Naïve Old Fart in What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)
One is enough. ;-)
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Tom Guernsey reacted to Tallguy in What was your first encounter with Jerry Goldsmith?
As much as I consider myself a Goldsmith fan there are moments when I think "Goldsmith did westerns?"
Excuse me while I go play Hour of the Gun again.
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Tom Guernsey reacted to PrayodiBA in John Powell kicks ass
Nice playlist.
If I may to add some comments 😄
1. Unique way to start 😄
2. This track is also a gem. Odd he didn’t put it in the score album, as this track is perhaps the highlight of Rio 2
3. How about “Z to the Rescue”? I consider that the highlight of the ost. Too long?
4-8. Agree!
9. I can’t connect to any of the Bourne stuff, especially the first one
10. Drumline is such an underrated gem. Agree with that track as well.
11-12. Agree!
13. For me, it’s “Boat Chase”
14. Can’t connect with Powell’s rom com too
15. “Hog Chase” is indeed on the best action piece Powell ever wrote
16-18. Can’t comment. Will check though (But agree with the “To The Roof”, but that’s still “a low bar” for me)
19. “Escape” is a nice summary of Robots. But “Train Station” is also a stand out, love the theme in that track:
20. Can’t comment
21. Agree. The suite album presents it better (IA 2 is such a way inferior work compared to the third movie; i found the themes in IA2 rather clunky)
22. For X3, you need to edit and stitch to make it into one big suite. Dark Phoenix theme, of course, but don’t forget this as well:
23. same, need micro edit for Happy Feet
24. Tangiers! I also ranked this among the best action tracks he ever wrote
25. The theme in this score is lovely, but there is one statement of that theme that needs to be put into the list, here:
26. Agree!
27-28. needs edit for this one. Made even worse by how the OST is split into tiny little tracks
29-33. Agree!
34. I can’t comment on HTTYD. It’s becoming too mainstream to my taste 😄
35-36. Agree. Though for Mars Needs Moms, I highly recommend you to listen to the Recording Session version. There are tons of unreleased gem! ( That version also made me rank MNM very high)
37-39. Agree
40. Hmm, needs stich & edit for this one.
41. For me, well pf course, “Madrid Finale”
42. Solo is too much 🙃
43-48. Agree!
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Tom Guernsey reacted to Anthony in John Powell kicks ass
Some nice discussion going on in the HTTYD3 topic, though it's not stricly Dragon related, so I didn't want to distract further.
My (some editing required) Powell playlist for the car:
20th Century Fox Fanfare (Samba Version) from Rio 2
Bola Viva from Rio 2 - you'll need the song album for this
The Colony from Antz
Chasing The Bull from Endurance
Save El Dorado from The Road To El Dorado - get the Wonders Of The New World track, which is 3 cues split with a short silence, and just take the middle cue
Building The Crate from Chicken Run
Ride The Dragon from Shrek
The Fire Truck from Evolution
Main Titles from The Bourne Identity
Rhythm Of Drums from Drumline - Drummer On The Sidelines seems to be the cue that people mention, but RoT is better
Main Title from The Adventures Of Pluto Nash
End Credits from Agent Cody Banks - I splice on the start of Cody To Duty so it has the full opening, rather than fading in midway through that cue
The New Plan from The Italian Job
Nice Weather from Gigli
Hog Chase Parts 1 & 2 from Paycheck - use ripping software to join them together
Morning Run from The Bourne Supremacy - a version with a clean opening is available...
To The Roof (Album Version) from The Bourne Supremacy
Cool Chili from Be Cool
Escape from Robots - a version with a clean ending is available...
Tango de Los Asesinos from Mr. & Mrs. Smith - a version with a clean ending is available...
Suite from Ice Age The Meltdown - from the Film Suites Vol. 1 album. It's a shame this arrangement wasn't on the OST/can't be replicated with editing as the performance isn't as tight.
Finale from X-Men: The Last Stand - see if you can get the unedited version with full choir. Personally, I've merged it with the main title cue, so it ends after the main theme, rather than going into the Dark Phoenix theme.
Suite from Happy Feet - I re-created a custom version of The Story Of Mumble Happy Feet from the song album. There's a whole lot of micro editing going on in that track which isn't great. You do need it however. I took The Birth Of Mumble, merged it into the TSOMHF version of Adelieland (where the micro edits are good), then merged that into the full version of Bob's LED.
Tangiers from The Bourne Ultimatum
The Meeting from P.S. I Love You
A Jump Off from Jumper
Mountain Chase from Horton Hears A Who! - a version with a clean opening is available...
End Titles (Film Version) from Horton Hears A Who! - yes, a pain, you'll need to rip it, but it's better (even though shorter) than the album version
The Base/Leaving Town from Stop-Loss - use ripping software to combine them
Hero from Kung Fu Panda - a version with a clean ending is available, allowing you to remove the Po Wakes Up cue
The Moon And The Superhero from Hancock - a version with a clean opening is available...
Scooter Chase from Bolt - get the proper version off the promo, rather than the horribly micro edited album version
End Credits from Ice Age: Dawn Of The Dinosaurs
Coming Back Around from How To Train Your Dragon
Bull Run / Going To Cape Horn? Take A Jacket from Knight And Day - use ripping software to combine them
Credits Suite from Mars Needs Moms
Morning Routine from Rio
Dragon Racing (Album Version) from How To Train Your Dragon 2
Flying With Mother from How To Train Your Dragon 2
Mine Escape from Pan
Flower Festival / From Train Station To Arena from Ferdinand - you can make a really nice transition between the two at the 3:00 minute mark
Suite from Solo: A Star Wars Story - you'll need the deluxe version. Start with the clean opening of Lando's Closet, merging it into Super Extra Deluxe End Credits Suite, merging out into the full version Corellia Chase, then back into Super Extra Deluxe End Credits Suite for the shortened Flying With Chewie.
Third Date from How To Train Your Dragon: The Hidden World
Joining The Team from The Call Of The Wild
Buck Takes The Lead from The Call Of The Wild
Life At The Beach from Still: A Michael J. Fox Movie
Migration End Titles
The Hidden World Suite from How To Train Your Dragon: The Hidden World A fantastic 3 hours or so of Powell goodness.
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Tom Guernsey reacted to Marian Schedenig in What was your first encounter with Jerry Goldsmith?
My first memory of Goldsmith's music is taping the end credits of Gremlins 2 off the TV with a cassette recorder. Must have been around 1991 (when I was 12), I had an original VHS copy of the film that I watched constantly. That was before I became aware of the name Goldsmith, or even consciously realised that the music in films was written specifically for the films. (I also taped the Ghostbusters end credits (for the song), and I remember being deeply impressed by Rosenman's dramatic music after the charge of the Rohirrim in Bakshi's LOTR, before Gandalf shows up, and - again, not having realised that films had original music - thinking it must be Mozart or something).
Then 1994 came and I discovered John Williams and did an instant 180° turn in what music I listened to. I quickly started collecting Williams and some other film music and lots of classical music (as far as my then budget allowed - classical music was easier, because I could pick up Naxos albums (not really good at that time, but I didn't notice that yet) and lots of classic DG recordings for what today is less than €6 at Vienna's then many classical music shops.
I didn't really know Goldsmith yet though and didn't care much for what I knew. I remember disliking his take on Courage's Trek fanfare and much preferring Eidelman's rhythmically different version. I did like the First Contact theme when I discovered it in 1997 (around the same time I got The Lost World and was convinced it was the best score ever), but the rest still didn't click much. I also wasn't a fan of synths at that time, least of all in an orchestral setting.
Then I watched The Great Train Robbery (probably in 1998) and instantly became a Goldsmith fan. By 2001 I was flying to London on my own to see him conduct the LSO and get together with FSM/MM.com people I'd never met before (hi Jim! ). Goldsmith also helped a lot to broaden my musical horizon, because a lot of his more avant-garde stuff took some getting used to when I first encountered it. Poltergeist took a few listens before I started to like it (it's one of my favourites now). I'm still convinced that POTA contributed to me getting sick for a few days right after I bought it - and Alien and The Wrath of Khan and a fourth score I can't remember now. TWOK helped me get better quickly, and by the time I was healthy again I liked Alien, too. POTA took more time.
Goldsmith crept up and probably past Williams for me throughout the 2000s, but I've also long "officially" classified them as a tie because it doesn't really make sense to even try and pick one over the other. Though with Williams's prolific output over the past 10 years or so, I think he's probably got the edge again for now.
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Tom Guernsey reacted to Knight of Ren in John Powell's HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON: THE HIDDEN WORLD (2019) - 2024 Varese Deluxe Edition
I've been revisiting the Kung Fu Panda scores and the second entry is definitely my favorite. Powell's presence is perfectly balanced with Zimmer's and I really like how each of them gave their own style to the music and the themes. KFP3 is also really nice, but I feel not as great since Powell's absence is felt more, and a similar thing happened while listening to the fourth score recently.
My fav Powell scores outside of HTTYD would be Pan, Call of the Wild and Solo. I love his fantasy/adventure writing and I feel those are some of the best examples of what he has to offer!
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from Andy in What was your first encounter with Jerry Goldsmith?
Star Trek, Star Trek, Star Trek... and, as if by magic, he and his music appeared in my life. I remember being quite confused as to why Star Trek 2 didn't use his theme from TMP. I feel like he's slowly crept in to usurp JW as my favourite film composer, but let's call it a tie so everyone is equally happy/disappointed.
I actually assumed the title of the thread meant encounter in person in which case it would be at the Museum of the Moving Image in, I guess 1997, around the time The Edge was released as he gave a talk about it alongside director Lee Tamahori (before he disappointed us all with Die Another Die... or The Another The as it is in Germany - sorry the Simpsons). They showed the opening titles with the Last of the Mohicans temp tracked, then with Jerry's (excellent) main titles music. I do remember Jerry expressing his dislike of temp tracking but otherwise talked generally about how he worked with the director and his composing process etc. Sadly too long ago to remember much of the details.
However, I did get to shake his hand and he kindly signed Night Crossing for me. I have no idea why I chose that over TMP or something a bit more famous... but it's obviously a much treasured possession. Mr Southall went to the same event and I think he got Powder signed (as it had large white areas which seemed better suited to autographs from cranky, pony-tailed composers). However, we both agreed that he definitely signed it Jerry Dobson, which became something of a running joke during our time at uni.
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from JTN in What was your first encounter with Jerry Goldsmith?
Star Trek, Star Trek, Star Trek... and, as if by magic, he and his music appeared in my life. I remember being quite confused as to why Star Trek 2 didn't use his theme from TMP. I feel like he's slowly crept in to usurp JW as my favourite film composer, but let's call it a tie so everyone is equally happy/disappointed.
I actually assumed the title of the thread meant encounter in person in which case it would be at the Museum of the Moving Image in, I guess 1997, around the time The Edge was released as he gave a talk about it alongside director Lee Tamahori (before he disappointed us all with Die Another Die... or The Another The as it is in Germany - sorry the Simpsons). They showed the opening titles with the Last of the Mohicans temp tracked, then with Jerry's (excellent) main titles music. I do remember Jerry expressing his dislike of temp tracking but otherwise talked generally about how he worked with the director and his composing process etc. Sadly too long ago to remember much of the details.
However, I did get to shake his hand and he kindly signed Night Crossing for me. I have no idea why I chose that over TMP or something a bit more famous... but it's obviously a much treasured possession. Mr Southall went to the same event and I think he got Powder signed (as it had large white areas which seemed better suited to autographs from cranky, pony-tailed composers). However, we both agreed that he definitely signed it Jerry Dobson, which became something of a running joke during our time at uni.
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from Yavar Moradi in What was your first encounter with Jerry Goldsmith?
Star Trek, Star Trek, Star Trek... and, as if by magic, he and his music appeared in my life. I remember being quite confused as to why Star Trek 2 didn't use his theme from TMP. I feel like he's slowly crept in to usurp JW as my favourite film composer, but let's call it a tie so everyone is equally happy/disappointed.
I actually assumed the title of the thread meant encounter in person in which case it would be at the Museum of the Moving Image in, I guess 1997, around the time The Edge was released as he gave a talk about it alongside director Lee Tamahori (before he disappointed us all with Die Another Die... or The Another The as it is in Germany - sorry the Simpsons). They showed the opening titles with the Last of the Mohicans temp tracked, then with Jerry's (excellent) main titles music. I do remember Jerry expressing his dislike of temp tracking but otherwise talked generally about how he worked with the director and his composing process etc. Sadly too long ago to remember much of the details.
However, I did get to shake his hand and he kindly signed Night Crossing for me. I have no idea why I chose that over TMP or something a bit more famous... but it's obviously a much treasured possession. Mr Southall went to the same event and I think he got Powder signed (as it had large white areas which seemed better suited to autographs from cranky, pony-tailed composers). However, we both agreed that he definitely signed it Jerry Dobson, which became something of a running joke during our time at uni.
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Tom Guernsey reacted to JNHFan2000 in What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)
You're welcome. His The One And Only Ivan is also very good. Incredible main themes there as well.
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from JTN in 96th Academy Awards (2024 Oscars for 2023 films)
Glad it's not just me who feels like that! And if you're gonna smother a film in music, at least make it decent music...
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Tom Guernsey reacted to Badzeee in What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)
John Barry - The Scarlet Letter
Perhaps not one of his more celebrated scores, but I adore it. Barry at his most yearningly romantic. The choral arrangements (Agnus Dei) are superlative.
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from JTN in 96th Academy Awards (2024 Oscars for 2023 films)
What a terrifying future awaits us all lol.
I’m not in the least bit surprised he won but still felt it was actually badly scored, both in terms of the music and the spotting. Intrusive and relentless in the dialogue scenes without any dramatic ebb and flow, just constantly noodling away with buildup after buildup making the film feel like a super long trailer. Ah well I can resign myself to being out of touch with what makes an Oscar winning score in the 21st century and pay them no mind.
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Tom Guernsey reacted to Dr. Know in Anthony Willis HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON: HOMECOMING (2019)
Unless I'm mistaken, I couldn't find any mention of Anthony Willis's Christmas holiday-themed score for the tv special HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON: HOMECOMING which premiered in 2019. It is, of course, derivative of Powell's DRAGON scores, but I thought it was nicely done. Since we're all busy discussing the release of the Deluxe edition of HTTYD3, I thought I would call everyone's attention to this little score.
Here's an interview with the composer:
https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2019/12/exclusive-interview-composer-anthony-willis-discusses-his-score-for-how-to-train-your-dragon-homecoming-holiday-special/
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from Datameister in Star Wars is better than everything
That’s no Klingon moon!
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Tom Guernsey reacted to mrbellamy in Did Jerry Goldsmith really call John Williams “such a snob”?
The problem with some of those is that fewer of the movies or TV shows really have much of a shelf life, so interest is low and/or availability is scarce. And also less is known through interviews about the partnership to supplement what we can observe.
It's always easier to comment and run deeper on the things we're all already familiar with and lived through. There's so much extra context with the older stuff that it gets difficult to parse, even though I have a broad idea of the history. Which is partly why I'm really looking forward to a proper Williams biography and documentary.
Delbert Mann is a key figure in Williams's trajectory, though. I mean someone could listen to Fitzwilly, Heidi, and Jane Eyre and that alone is a solid primer on "pre-Jaws" Williams. And of course Jane Eyre is a very highly regarded score around here. I haven't gotten around to the movies yet, though, so can't say what they have that makes this partnership distinct from others, aesthetically.
Martin Ritt is also kind of an interesting one because he made some relatively notable movies, including Hud, The Spy Who Came in From the Cold, Sounder, and Norma Rae, but the Williams collabs don't really seem to rate in his career and the scores are not JWFan favorites. But I didn't realize looking at it that they had Pete N Tillie and Conrack close together, and then a long gap until Stanley & Iris which ended up being Ritt's final film; he died that year.
Wendkos seems interesting for being a first, at least. The Robson movies seem to have some range and Earthquake gives you Irwin Allen crossover. I have no comment otherwise. I wonder about Pollack and Kershner, because they only did one film with Williams but I guess there's TV? I have no idea which were episodes they actually worked together on, IMDb doesn't make this easy. Or how much interaction Williams had with his directors for episodic television, in general. Or what these collaborations might illuminate about The Empire Strikes Back or Sabrina.
That is another thing about the TV work. I don't know if we have a master thread on this but there should probably be a catalog of all the shows and episodes Williams did tbh. And which can be found online. Again, I've always found this info too spread out and incomplete to be much fun exploring....
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Tom Guernsey reacted to JNHFan2000 in What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)
Wolf Totem - James Horner
What a wonderful score. Full of all the Hornerism's one could wish for and I love every second of it.
Still sometimes think about all the scores he could've written over the past 9 years and how it felt after this that he was making a bit of a comeback.
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from Naïve Old Fart in Did Jerry Goldsmith really call John Williams “such a snob”?
Honestly I don't know, although in my head it was at the Royal Albert Hall but that could just be because I've seen lots of film music concerts there.
I agree that those three directors provided him with some fine ongoing collaborations, but none that quite hit the sweet spot of critical and commercial acclaim which JW has enjoyed. Also, JW's success probably got him offered better quality non-Spielberg/Lucas projects than Jerry, at least once you get to the 80s and 90s. I would concede that Jerry probably could have been a bit more discerning as to which projects he agreed to or could have done with a better agent!
Of any other composers, I expect he was more pissed off at James Horner's success than JW given that the average quality of Horner's assignments were probably higher than Jerry's once he hit his post-Star Trek 2 stride. Jerry would almost certainly have felt that JW earned his success with a couple of decades of TV and the various comedies, disaster movies etc. that he did before hitting the big time, even if I'm sure Jerry would have liked some of that for himself!
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from Jurassic Shark in The Classical Music Recommendation Thread
Does anyone have any recommendations for a complete set of the Widor Organ Symphonies? I have a couple of random recordings of the famous 5th but would like to explore the others.
Perhaps unwisely, I played the toccata from the 5th when I used to play the organ at a local church at the end of a service. I more or less got through it… our music teacher at school (as well as my church organ and later piano teacher) played it at least once a year at the end of assembly much to the delight of even the less musically inclined students. Although not as big a hit as when he played the theme from Jurassic Park or The Imperial March… both of which were ideal for the principal who was a dinosaur, wore a black gown and was probably evil.
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from Edmilson in Did Jerry Goldsmith really call John Williams “such a snob”?
Yeah, that's about it, it was the point when he realised he was working his arse off on films demanding lots of music that he thought were a bit silly and he should have been getting better gigs (which he did earlier in his career). To be fair, he was right, he really did deserve his own Spielberg or Lucas... Dante and Schaffner were probably his longest associations and gave him quite different challenges; working with Dante was almost certainly a lot of fun but was never going to go high brow and Schaffner provided kudos but not enough mainstream appeal. Plus he died in the late 1980s and his peak was the 1970s anyway. You could argue that Dante's peak was the 1980s too.
But you're right, he wrote a terrific score for the Mummy and it's not like it's much less silly than Indiana Jones and it's certainly a hundred times better than King Solomon's Mines (and the Mummy is a better score too).
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Tom Guernsey got a reaction from JTN in Did Jerry Goldsmith really call John Williams “such a snob”?
Yeah, that's about it, it was the point when he realised he was working his arse off on films demanding lots of music that he thought were a bit silly and he should have been getting better gigs (which he did earlier in his career). To be fair, he was right, he really did deserve his own Spielberg or Lucas... Dante and Schaffner were probably his longest associations and gave him quite different challenges; working with Dante was almost certainly a lot of fun but was never going to go high brow and Schaffner provided kudos but not enough mainstream appeal. Plus he died in the late 1980s and his peak was the 1970s anyway. You could argue that Dante's peak was the 1980s too.
But you're right, he wrote a terrific score for the Mummy and it's not like it's much less silly than Indiana Jones and it's certainly a hundred times better than King Solomon's Mines (and the Mummy is a better score too).
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Tom Guernsey reacted to Richard Penna in Did Jerry Goldsmith really call John Williams “such a snob”?
My recollection (from reports here) is along those lines; that he thought it was a silly movie. However, as you say it may not be directly the movie itself, but also what he went through - the suggestions that his schedule only really allowed him to score part of the movie and Sommers ended up forcing him to write the whole score anyway. That's generally going put him in a bad mood, particularly if he thought the movie was stupid.
I usually come to this score first as an example of movies where a composer wrote a properly good score for a movie they thought of negatively some degree.
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Tom Guernsey reacted to Richard Penna in What are your non-Williams film score holy grails now?
It's been years since the discussion with the post-Townson Varese guys about aborted releases, and a desire to see some titles out. Must be something about Brainstorm that is really complex (or makes it not possible at all) given how many titles have flown out since 2020 or so.
And of course, I'm not letting a 'grail' thread be without my routine whine about JP ///
I think FotR is the only one that needs a ground-up rebuild from the sessions, including major alternates and theatrical versions where appropriate - something that would rival the Hook set without breaking a sweat. Although I don't think we need literally everything recorded, and this score is pretty much my #1 score.
TTT and RotK are assembled with a different mindset, and really the only issue I have with those is the lack of properly released alternates and theatricals.
Hopefully Shore isn't in a mindset where he feels the CRs are enough and he's moved on.