enderdrag64

Right again, fixed my post!

Its that time again, this time though, the CR presentation is nearly perfect.

"Foundations of Stone" or Analyzing the Two Towers CR



The 13th day of August in the the year 2014, by Shire reckoning. JWfan, the Shire...Middle-Earth. The Third Age of this world.

Now, where to begin?

Ah, yes.

Concerning Edits....

Disc I

Glamdring

Complete

Elven Rope

This track contains the EE title music, the rarities has an early choral version.

The TTT score featurette might feature an alternate version of 1:12 to 1:58 that uses the Fellowship theme.

Lost In Emyn Muil

The Lord of the Rings: Tactics has the theatrical version without the music for the EE scene of Frodo and Sam in the rain.

The CR has a hybrid of the film version and the early choral version at 1:26, the full early version can be found on the Rarities disc.

My Precious

The CR has the EE ending, the OST track "The Passage of the Marshes" has the theatrical ending.

Ugluk's Warriors

The CR has the EE version, the theatrical version is unreleased.

The CR/EE version has more "thudding" percussion and is slightly longer, while the TE version has more "clashy" percussion, for another example of this, compare the ending of Ugluk's Warriors, to the similar music in the Rarities track "The Eaves of Fangorn".

The Three Hunters

The CR uses the EE version of the revised version, in the film the very end of the OST track "The Uruk-Hai" is present at approximately 4:40 (or atleast material that sounds almost exactly like it).

The OST uses a brassier alternate of the statement of the Rohan theme at 1:30.

The Rarities has an early version of the track that instead of transitioning to the Isengard material, transitions into the chase across the plains of Rohan, and concludes with alternates of the "Night Camp" material.

In the EE 5:33 to the end of the track was dialed out.

The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes

The Banishment of Eomer

The CR features the EE opening, 0:40 to 2:52 is the EE insert, The Third Age video game has the TE version..

2:52 to the end of the CR track is the film version, that uses the Fellowship theme and more of the "thudding" percussion, the Rarities features an alternate that uses the Isengard theme and the "clashy" percussion.

Night Camp

The CR has the EE film version, The Rarities has an alternate using the Ent theme.

The Rarities version of the Orc argument is the theatrical version.

The Rarities has an alternate for the "Look's Like Meat's Back on the Menu Boys!" section.

The Rarities track also has two alternate endings, none of all three released endings were used in the film.

The Plains of Rohan

Complete!

Fangorn

Complete!

The Dead Marshes

The CR has the EE insert from 1:00 to 1:43.

Wraiths on Wings

Complete!

Gandalf The White

The CR features an edited down version of the EE transition (a short statement of the Ent theme was edited out at approximately 3:37) to the revised Shadowfax music, the OST has the (unused) theatrical transition.

The TTT Fan-club credits features an alternate of Gandalf's Reveal (2:11 of the CR track)

The OST track Forth Eorlingas features an intermediate version of Gandalf's Arrival where he "took a little longer to say hello"

The OST track The White Rider features an alternate of the Shadowfax music that uses the Counterpoint to The White Rider theme.

The Dreams of Trees

Complete!

The Heir of Numenor

The CR track features the cue for the EE scene of Gandalf and Aragorn discussing Sauron, and Frodo and Sam.

Ent-Draught

Complete!

END OF DISC I

DISC II

Edoras

CR has a mix of two versions of the opening, the OST has the fiddle version isolated, and the EE DVD Scene Selections Menu has the film version.

The EE DVD Music Appendix has the gong hit for Eowyn's disappearance

The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes

The Court of Meduseld

Complete

Théoden King

The CR has the EE version, the OST has the TE version

The King's Decision

Complete

Exodus of Edoras

The CR has an EE insert from 0:00 to 3:19.

The Forests of Ithilien

The CR has an EE insert at 5:17, the Return of the King game has the TE version.

One of the Dunedain

The CR has the EE version, the Return of the King game has the TE film version

The Wolves of Isengard

The CR has the film version, the OST has an alternate

The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes

Refuge at Helm's Deep

The CR has the EE insert, The OST has the TE version

The Voice of Saruman

Complete

Arwen's Fate

Complete, The EE Scene Selections menu has the film edit

The Story Foretold

Complete

Sons of the Steward

CR has the EE version

Rock and Pool

Complete

Faramir's Good Council

CR has the film edit, the OST has the full recording (?).

END OF DISC II

DISC III

Aragorn's Return

Complete

War is Upon Us

Complete

"Where is the Horse and the Rider?"

CR has the EE version, OST has the TE version

The Host of the Eldar

Complete

The Battle of the Hornburg

Complete

The Breach of the Deeping Wall

Complete

The Entmoot Decides

The TTT score featurette might feature an alternate version of 0:59 - 1:25 that uses the Fellowship theme

Retreat

Complete

Master Peregrin's Plan

Complete

The Last March of the Ents

The CR has an alternate, The Third Age game, The Rarities, and the EE DVD Music Appendix have the film version.

The EE DVD Music Appendix has additional brass, the LOTR symphony has this as well.

The Nazgûl Attack

Complete

Théoden Rides Forth

The CR has the film version, The EE DVD Fan Club Credits has an alternate without the choir at 0:43, different brass at 0:47, and without Ben Del Maestro at 1:15.

The OST has a clean ending of 0:00 to 2:03, and a louder mix of Ben Del Maestro

The Tales That Really Matter

CR has the EE film version, OST has the TE film version.

The EE DVD Music Appendix has the original version

"Long Ways to Go Yet"

CR has the film version of the End Credits, OST has an alternate.

The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes

END OF DISC III

Unsolved Mysteries

Is the unused fellowship theme statement from the EE DVD Music Appendix an alternate for Elven Rope or The Entmoot Decides?

Why does 4:32 - 4:53 of "The Eaves of Fangorn" sound so much like the TE version of Ugluk's Warriors?

Is the film/CR version of Faramir's Good Council a film edit with the extra music heard on the OST being dialed out? or is the OST track an alternate?

Comparing the LOTR Symphony CD to the OST/CR.


(Timestamps refer mostly to the OST tracks, some timestamps refer to the CR when applicable)

DISC II MOVEMENT III

The Foundations of Stone/Glamdring

The LOTR symphony uses the first minute and 42 seconds of Foundations of Stone/Glamdring and segues to...

The Taming of Smeagol/Lost In Emyn Muil

The Symphony uses the last minute and 45 seconds of The Taming of Smeagol, with additional Shakers in the orchestration under the statement of Gollum's menace and more prominent woodwinds during the bit for Gollum releasing Sam.

The Riders of Rohan/The King's Decision and Exodus from Edoras

The Symphony uses 57-3:56 of The Riders of Rohan and segues to...

The Black Gate Is Closed/The Heir of Numenor

The Symphony uses the OST version, but with the section at 1:14-1:18 removed.

Evenstar/One of the Dunedain

The Symphony uses 2:15-5:05 of the CR track, with 3:38-4:08 removed, more prominent Cor Anglais (and no flute?) at 4:08-4:32, and a clean opening of the Rivendell theme at 2:15. The Symphony then segues to....

The White Rider/Gandalf the White

The Symphony uses the TE version (CR and OST "hybrid").

Treebeard/War Is Upon Us and Fangorn

The Symphony uses a shortened version of the OST track, and segues to...

The Forbidden Pool/The Forests of Ithilien, Rock and Pool, and Faramir's Good Council.

The Symphony uses a shortened version of the OST track, with extra orchestration at 0:45-1:07, more prominent cymbal at 2:26-2:33, and more prominent Cor Anglais at 2:56-3:40

END OF DISC II MOVEMENT III

DISC II MOVEMENT IV

The Hornburg/The Battle of the Hornburg.

The Symphony uses 3:03-End of the OST track, with more prominent strings, additional (or differently pitched) strings at 3:56-4:08, and an extra aleatoric brass bit (cluster?) at 4:04-4:09. The Symphony then segues to...

Forth Eorlingas/Theoden Rides Forth

The Symphony uses the OST track, and segues to...

Isengard Unleashed/The Last March of the Ents and Theoden Rides Forth.

The Symphony uses the OST track, with the extra brass at 2:18-3:16, and more prominent brass throughout.

Gollum's Song/Long Ways To Go Yet

The Symphony uses the OST track 0:00-3:55, I don't know if it uses the altered lyrics of the Live to Projection version.

END OF DISC II MOVEMENT IV

Sources

Jim Ware's TTT OST/CR Breakdown and Comparison: http://www.lyndhursthouse.plus.com/ttt_ost_breakdown.pdf
Jim Ware's TTT Live to Projection Notes: http://www.metronomical.co.uk/ttt_live_notes.pdf

I noticed that there was not a guide on what cues contained film edits/tracking so I decided to make one:

"A Conspiracy Unmasked" or Analyzing the Fellowship of the Ring CR



The year 2013 of the Second Age. Here follows the account of Faleel, Manic Treasure Hunter of JWFan, and the finding of the unreleased music....


Disc One

Prologue: One Ring To Rule Them All

The CR has the film version, The OST and Rarities have different edits of the same alternate, The TE and EE DVD menus have the TE version

There is a section of the cue microedited around 2:00, (the microedited section can be found in the scene selection menu) and sections of the cue that have the choir mixed out.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9Ym9BcjZlME1Tc1k/edit?usp=sharing

The Shire

This is the cue for the EE scene, it seems to be complete and free of film edits, but I could be wrong.

Bag End

This is the EE version of the scene of Frodo under the tree, the theatrical version is unreleased, though some of it can be ripped from the EE trailer on the TE special features.

The CR has the music for the EE cut of the trip through Hobbiton, the OST has an alternate of the TE version, the EE Fan Club Credits has the film version edited down, the scale documentary has one of the microedited sections

Very Old Friends

Seems to be complete, with no film edits or microedits.

Flaming Red Hair

The CR version seems to be an alternate, the EE scene selections (and the ROTK EE appendices documentaries) seem to have an alternate opening..

Farewell Dear Bilbo

Complete and unedited?

Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe!

The first half is complete until 4:00, though the EE special features have a clean ending without Holm's voiceover.

The second half however, has a statement of the History of the Ring, tracked from Parth Galen, the original composition can be heard in the music featurette on the EE DVD and in the OST track "The Shadow of the Past"

The choir for the Nine leaving Minas Morgul is mixed low in the CR. there is a loop around 6:23, and a microedit at 7:04, The Lord of the Rings The Third Age game files has microedited section.

A Conspiracy Unmasked

This track is what inspired me to write this.

The first portion is complete (minus 1 second of a clean opening.), however a small section at 0:48 was tracked over/replaced with brass notes from later in the cue, the original section can be heard in the Middle-Earth atlas on the EE features (during the transition to Rivendell) and the TE DVD menus.

One of the most interesting editing decisions on the FOTR CR is during Frodo and Gandalf's discussion of the One Ring, low brass play the Threat of Mordor, which is not on the CR, I believe the reason for this is because it would not flow naturally in to the History of the Ring theme, because this History theme statement is also tracked from Parth Galen!

The original piece would have featured the Footsteps of Doom End-cap, and a bit of incidental music that reminds of the Original version of the Siege of Gondor (presented on the Rarities disc), this original composition can be heard in the EE documentary on the Costumes, during the Saruman section.

A statement of the Threat of Mordor is not presented on the CR, the Third Age game has this statement.

Three Is Company
The CR has the film version, The OST has the TE version.
The LOTR symphony version has singing instead of humming.

The Passing of the Elves

This cue is by Plan 9 and seems to be complete

Saruman The White

1:00 has low male choir in the film, but the CR has this mixed low.

Choir is dialed out at 3:09 (the intended choir can be found in the OST track "The Treason of Isengard").

A Shortcut To Mushrooms

A portion at 1:44 is microedited down, the OST has the unmicroedited section.

A bar is microedited out at 1:59, the TTT Video Game file 02G2GAL1 has this missing bar.

The Live to Projection version of this track has an extra horn line

There is an unreleased alternate to this cue, which was a shorter, more subdued take, parts of it can be found in the Previz of Gandalf riding to Isengard. and in the Middle-earth atlas (as a transition to The Trollshaws), the missing bar mentioned above could theoretically be part of this early version.

Early Version (Partial): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9eWRFdHJGWHU4VWc/edit?usp=sharing

Strider

0:19-0:34 is tracked from later in the cue, this section was originally silent.

The string sustain as the Hobbits try to decide what to do next is artificially extended.

The Nazgul

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9R1A2UGZWTzhHMU0/edit?usp=sharing
Music for the Ringwraiths trashing the Hobbit's beds is dialed out, this music can be found at 2:15 on the OST track 'At The Sign of the Prancing Pony'
.
1:44 to 2:14 is tracked from Saruman The White, the actual composition can be found on the Rarities track 'To Rivendell'
 
The CR ending (replacing the Isengard material heard in the aforementioned Rarities track) at 5:09 seems to be tracked from The Sword that was Broken as recorded for the TE
 
End of Disc One

Disc Two

Weathertop

The CR track has muted brass counterpoint mixed out, and choir is removed at 1:22.

The Caverns of Isengard

0:44 has music tracked from earlier in the track, the choir is mixed low at 1:57 on the CR (the OST can be used for this portion)

The music at 3:57 is the EE version, could be looped to fit the new EE footage, the waveforms do not provide any clues. The TE version is unreleased,

The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes, including the original mix of the Nature theme statement

Give Up The Halfling

Complete, the OST and Rarities have alternates.

The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes

Orthanc

Seems complete..

Rivendell

Complete, OST contains an alternate.

The Sword That Was Broken

The ending on the CR is either edited down and pitch shifted, or a new recording done for the EE, the full original ending can be recreated from the TE DVD Special Features menu music and the end of The Nazgul from the CR

The Live to Projection version has various changes

The Council of Elrond Assembles

Aniron is microedited, a small section could be looped..

The EE DVD Appendices Menus and documentaries have music dialed out in the TE and replaced in the EE

The Great Eye

1:29 sounds like it might be tracked from the original A Shortcut to Mushrooms and slowed down.

4:32 might be a loop, The OST has an alternate for 4:39.

Gilraen's Memorial

The CR has the EE version, The OST has the TE version edited down, the Fellowship leaving Rivendell has the choir mixed low.

The Live to Projection version has additional bell tree

The Pass of Caradhras

4:53 to 4:57 is a loop made to fit the EE footage.

The TTT game files have a brassier version of the Evil Times statement

The Live to Projection version of this track has extra or louder choir

The Doors of Durin

Complete, contains the EE insert, the TE version is partially available via the TTT Video Game files 02G2IGC3 and 02G2IGC4, the rest is in the EE documentaries.

Moria

CR includes the EE inserts, the OST has the theatrical version.

The end is microedited.

The symphony version has extra instruments, extra singing, and a brassier ending.

Gollum

Complete?

Balin's Tomb

There are three microedits around 4:43, 4:47, and 5:10, these can be undone using the TTT or ROTK Video Game files.

The Fan Club Credits have a clean opening for 7:34 of the track.

The music after the Fellowship theme statement is the film edit, the OST track the full composition.

The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes

End of Disc Two

Disc Three

Khazad-Dum

There are three microedits in the track:

One at 2:01

The second at 3:33

The third at 4:07

These can be undone using the OST, and the TTT Game Files.

Caras Galadhon

CR has the EE version, OST has an edited down version of the TE version

The Mirror of Galadriel

The first phrase of the Lothlorien theme was edited out in order to condense the music to start at a later point in the footage, the microedited section can be found in the Scene Selection menus

It is unclear if the music for Galadriel's reveal of Nenya was a edit, or a new recording. (this section is shorter on the OST though...)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9VU9yekstRUNxYzg/edit?usp=sharing

The Fighting Uruk-Hai

The opening of the cue was edited out, and can be found on the Rarities.

A brass statement of the Fellowship theme was dialed out and can be found on the OST
 
The Symphony version of the Fellowship leaving Lorien uses the Choir over the Fellowship theme from the OST version, and an extra few seconds of choir later

The Symphony version has a few extra seconds of music after the Ring Theme statement.

The CR has the EE film version, The Rarities and OST have the TE original version

Parth Galen

Choir has been mixed out at 3:25.

A second statement of the Seduction of the Ring was mixed out at 4:39.

The music for Boromir's death is the EE version, the TE version can be found on the OST and in the TTT game files.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9LUZmVmNqa1prTWM/edit?usp=sharing

The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes

The Departure of Boromir

The first few seconds of the track are edited out, the missing section can be found on the OST.

The music for Aragorn's fight with Lurtz is the film edit, the Game files has the full composition (with some sections looped for Game purposes)

The Live to Projection version of this track has extra choir

The Road Goes Ever On.. Part 1

Complete. The Fan Club credits has an alternate, the OST has a slightly edited down version of the film version composition, but without the final humming coda.

May It Be

Might be complete, might be microedited, I have no idea, on the OST, May It Be comes after In Dreams.

The Road Goes Ever On.. Part 2

The CR has the film edit, the OST has the full composition

Comparing the Lord of the Rings Symphony CD to the OST/CR


DISC I MOVEMENT I


The Prophecy/Prologue: One Ring to Rule Them All (Original Version)

Pretty much the same content as the OST track, however 1:02 of the LOTR Symphony combines the Cor Anglais from 3:58 of the version of the Prologue on the Rarities disc and the horn from 0:58 of The Prophecy on the OST.

The rest of the prologue portion of the movement uses the CR/film version.

Concerning Hobbits/The Shire and Bag End

The Symphony uses a slightly shortened version of the OST track.

The Treason of Isengard/Three Is Company

The Seduction of the Ring is sung instead of hummed.

The Journey There section is omitted, instead the music segues to....

The Black Rider/A Shortcut to Mushrooms

The brass at 0:40 of the OST track is not in the Symphony version.

There is music not in the OST track at 9:03 of the Symphony version.

At 10:22 there is an additional descending horn line, however it is mixed very low, it can be heard more easily in these videos:

At 9:52:
 
 

At 1:47
 
 
 
 
 


Instead of resolving with the last note, the music instead segues into....

The Treason of Isengard/Saruman The White

The Symphony uses the OST version.

END OF DISC I MOVEMENT I

DISC I MOVEMENT II

Many Meetings/Rivendell

The Symphony uses the OST Version with an extra or more prominent humming, and segues to...

The Ring Goes South/Gilraen's Memorial

The Symphony uses the EE Version, and segues to...

A Journey In The Dark/Moria

More prominent (extra?) Khuzdul singing, and harsh instrumentation, the Live to Projection version is similar, but less harsh.

The Bridge of Khazad-Dum/Balin's Tomb

The Symphony uses the OST track, with 5 seconds of percussion hits (similar to the clean opening of the film cue The Second Hall).

Lothlorien/Caras Galadhon

Seems to be TE and EE version hybrid, contains clean ending of "Lament for Gandalf"

The Great River/The Fighting Uruk-Hai

EE/OST Version Hybrid, contains extra music at 21:54.

Amon Hen/Parth Galen

EE Version

The Breaking of the Fellowship/May It Be and The Road Goes Ever On Parts 1 and 2

OST version

END OF DISC I MOVEMENT II

Unsolved Mysteries

What does the original version of A Shortcut to Mushrooms sound like?

Is the bit of the Threat of Mordor for Gimli trying to destroy the One Ring in The Great Eye tracked?

How much choral material are we missing?

The End?
 

Y’all may find this useful:
 
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1xQEjKlZn7dlmmx8bhCDlt3OdbX2Q-s8z/edit?usp=docslist_api&filetype=msexcel

What you are saying doesn't make any sense
 
It was on a leak of Bourne 2, because it's a demo for Bourne 2.
 
It was never on a Bourne 1 leak.
 
The only logical reason it ended up on this release is that somebody included it in a repository of tracks to consider for this release, and the person making those decisions wasn't aware it was a demo of Bourne 2's 1m3 and not Bourne 1's 1m3.

One final observation: It appears that the final track on the album, "Got Any ID?" has been transferred at the wrong sample rate, meaning it plays back slightly slower and pitched lower, compared to what it should be. This one was an easy catch, as the track segues into Extreme Ways in the movie, which begins in B minor. In the film, "Got Any ID?" is in B minor, to allow for a smooth transition between pieces. Check it out (around 1:20 in the video): 
 
To confirm this was the case, I dragged my 44.1kHz file of this track into Logic and converted the project to 48kHz and, voila: The track plays back at the correct speed and pitch, so it's not too much trouble to fix on your own. Even if you don't have the album, you can listen to the sample of this track on the Varèse website to compare with the film (if you can be bothered). This is the exactly the same thing that happened with the Prologue in John Williams' Hook soundtrack release (even down to the same key!). I do wonder how this got past whoever checks these things before albums release...

I have not seen Obi-Wan and while I am not a big Star Wars Fan, I think JW's score (especially ROTS & TFA) are very good (though definitively not his best work). I can understand if fans want the SW shows to sound like JW's Star Wars. However, the general negative discussion in this thread against Holt and in other threads against composers that do not sound a certain way or are not "approved by JWFAN" is a bit much sometimes. Of course on a JW forum it makes sense but the discussion is often just based on stuff like "we dislike this composer, or this style" and a more open discussion, which is not based on thrashing things one doesn't like, seems like a healthier climate for discussion.
 
I myself am a fan of multiple types of film music, dating back to golden age scores, all the way to scores written in 2022 so I just don't get the tribalism. If I don't like a score then that is fine, I'll just listen to something else that I do like.

From Holt's comment on the twitter post, to be it sounds like The Force Theme will be used. Maybe later. When Obi-Wan has gained more strength

Some of Mark Griskey's action tracks for KOTOR 2 do the Star Wars sound so well that I'm almost tricked into thinking they were unused action cues for the Prequels. Clearly I'm not the only one that thinks this, because they ended up intermingling a few of them along with Williams music in the Revenge of the Sith PS2 game:
 

Amazing, innit?
 
This means John Williams gave us new Star Wars music in his 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s!
 
 
The man is 90 years old, and Star Wars was released 45 years ago earlier this week, so he's now life longer since Star Wars was released than he did before it

So, there’s now John Williams Star Wars music from the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, 2010s, and 2020s: six different decades!

I think it's a little more nuanced than that in this particular case due to the nature of the film and its connection to past Japanese/Chinese conflict.
 
The Wikipedia page on it has a nice summary of the concerns people had

Here's a clean presentation of just the music, no audience noise before or after
 
 

Same guy who did the trailer

As much as I love the score for The Patriot (and crave its C&C edition), I still think the movie is quite terrible. Anyway, JW's music at least make the movie slightly less awful. 
 
On the other hand, not even JW himself could save the abomination called Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, as much as he tried.

I think it's a little more nuanced than that in this particular case due to the nature of the film and its connection to past Japanese/Chinese conflict.
 
The Wikipedia page on it has a nice summary of the concerns people had

I think it's a little more nuanced than that in this particular case due to the nature of the film and its connection to past Japanese/Chinese conflict.
 
The Wikipedia page on it has a nice summary of the concerns people had

Maybe someone should ask Powell on social media about the missing cues? He's usually very open with his fans.

Thank goodness Kingdom of the Crystal Skull wasn't the last movie he scored.

That's so sad! Many of his scores will truly carry his legacy, but one I'm really fond of is Blade Runner, especially the Tears in the Rain theme. Such a beautiful theme.
 
May he rest in peace.

For me The Rise of Skywalker is the worst of them all. It just never clicked for me. Never even had a real engaging sequence. At least Attack of the Clones has fun action sequences and interesting things that happen (often visually). But TROS... it all looked like everything we've seen before. And don't get me started on all the other issues that movie had. And people like to hate on Last Jedi... to me that one at least felt like a movie.

Agreed. While they often felt wooden and odd (like George himself), they were always strangely watchable. OTOH, I can't stomach The Rise Of Skywalker.