Pat_S

The event in question: https://www.juilliard.edu/event/182056/john-williams-composers-life-night-stories-and-music
 
Currently streaming here: https://www.juilliard.edu/live
 
Discuss that event (outside of this news) here.
 
Full quote:
 

Wasn't quite sure where to put this so I started a new topic. 
 
John Williams composed a few different endings for the finale cue from War Horse (starting at about 2:08 in all these videos), each using different themes. Only the final version has been released, so I decided to quickly make mockups of the others. I'm not sure if this has been done before, so apologies if it has, this is one of my first times doing this so I make no promises of quality. 
 
I only have Williams' sketches for this, so note that I had to "orchestrate" the endings myself, though that required very little thought as essentially all the detail is there.
 
Version 1 
This version ends with a lovely string arrangement of the Dartmoor/Albert Theme that defined the score in the opening act, returning here for the first time since "Plowing", marked "nostalgically" in the score. It is somewhat shorter than the others (by about 6 seconds according to the timestamps in the sketch), so probably scored a slightly altered version of the final scene, but I've attached it to the picture anyway with a rather awkward fade out waiting on Joey. 

Version 2 
This version also uses primarily the strings (briefly coloured by flute/bass clarinet) on the Reunion Theme used elsewhere in the cue. Williams writes on the score "Ramiro, I think the 2 ending is much preferred". 

Version 2 - Piano Version
In the sketch, there's a cued piano part marked "solo" in the 2nd version. Based on the dynamic markings given to it (much softer than the strings), I can only assume that this was intended to be another alternate idea where the piano played the final theme on its own. It wasn't completely clear how the rest of the orchestra would segue into this, so I just added a fade out on the overlapping chord. It is entirely possible that I'm interpreting this wrong and the cued part would accompany the rest of the strings, however I feel this is unlikely. Anyhow, it's nice to have the cue start and end similarly. 

I think I still prefer the final version, but all 3 of the above are still very lovely. 
 
 

Thank you for these! Always fascinating and lovely to hear these alternate approaches. I love the score and it is interesting to see Williams actually tried so many different approaches for the movie's ending but I agree that they made the right decision to go with the Warhorse theme in the end. 

Wasn't quite sure where to put this so I started a new topic. 
 
John Williams composed a few different endings for the finale cue from War Horse (starting at about 2:08 in all these videos), each using different themes. Only the final version has been released, so I decided to quickly make mockups of the others. I'm not sure if this has been done before, so apologies if it has, this is one of my first times doing this so I make no promises of quality. 
 
I only have Williams' sketches for this, so note that I had to "orchestrate" the endings myself, though that required very little thought as essentially all the detail is there.
 
Version 1 
This version ends with a lovely string arrangement of the Dartmoor/Albert Theme that defined the score in the opening act, returning here for the first time since "Plowing", marked "nostalgically" in the score. It is somewhat shorter than the others (by about 6 seconds according to the timestamps in the sketch), so probably scored a slightly altered version of the final scene, but I've attached it to the picture anyway with a rather awkward fade out waiting on Joey. 

Version 2 
This version also uses primarily the strings (briefly coloured by flute/bass clarinet) on the Reunion Theme used elsewhere in the cue. Williams writes on the score "Ramiro, I think the 2 ending is much preferred". 

Version 2 - Piano Version
In the sketch, there's a cued piano part marked "solo" in the 2nd version. Based on the dynamic markings given to it (much softer than the strings), I can only assume that this was intended to be another alternate idea where the piano played the final theme on its own. It wasn't completely clear how the rest of the orchestra would segue into this, so I just added a fade out on the overlapping chord. It is entirely possible that I'm interpreting this wrong and the cued part would accompany the rest of the strings, however I feel this is unlikely. Anyhow, it's nice to have the cue start and end similarly. 

I think I still prefer the final version, but all 3 of the above are still very lovely. 
 
 

Wasn't quite sure where to put this so I started a new topic. 
 
John Williams composed a few different endings for the finale cue from War Horse (starting at about 2:08 in all these videos), each using different themes. Only the final version has been released, so I decided to quickly make mockups of the others. I'm not sure if this has been done before, so apologies if it has, this is one of my first times doing this so I make no promises of quality. 
 
I only have Williams' sketches for this, so note that I had to "orchestrate" the endings myself, though that required very little thought as essentially all the detail is there.
 
Version 1 
This version ends with a lovely string arrangement of the Dartmoor/Albert Theme that defined the score in the opening act, returning here for the first time since "Plowing", marked "nostalgically" in the score. It is somewhat shorter than the others (by about 6 seconds according to the timestamps in the sketch), so probably scored a slightly altered version of the final scene, but I've attached it to the picture anyway with a rather awkward fade out waiting on Joey. 

Version 2 
This version also uses primarily the strings (briefly coloured by flute/bass clarinet) on the Reunion Theme used elsewhere in the cue. Williams writes on the score "Ramiro, I think the 2 ending is much preferred". 

Version 2 - Piano Version
In the sketch, there's a cued piano part marked "solo" in the 2nd version. Based on the dynamic markings given to it (much softer than the strings), I can only assume that this was intended to be another alternate idea where the piano played the final theme on its own. It wasn't completely clear how the rest of the orchestra would segue into this, so I just added a fade out on the overlapping chord. It is entirely possible that I'm interpreting this wrong and the cued part would accompany the rest of the strings, however I feel this is unlikely. Anyhow, it's nice to have the cue start and end similarly. 

I think I still prefer the final version, but all 3 of the above are still very lovely. 
 
 

Wasn't quite sure where to put this so I started a new topic. 
 
John Williams composed a few different endings for the finale cue from War Horse (starting at about 2:08 in all these videos), each using different themes. Only the final version has been released, so I decided to quickly make mockups of the others. I'm not sure if this has been done before, so apologies if it has, this is one of my first times doing this so I make no promises of quality. 
 
I only have Williams' sketches for this, so note that I had to "orchestrate" the endings myself, though that required very little thought as essentially all the detail is there.
 
Version 1 
This version ends with a lovely string arrangement of the Dartmoor/Albert Theme that defined the score in the opening act, returning here for the first time since "Plowing", marked "nostalgically" in the score. It is somewhat shorter than the others (by about 6 seconds according to the timestamps in the sketch), so probably scored a slightly altered version of the final scene, but I've attached it to the picture anyway with a rather awkward fade out waiting on Joey. 

Version 2 
This version also uses primarily the strings (briefly coloured by flute/bass clarinet) on the Reunion Theme used elsewhere in the cue. Williams writes on the score "Ramiro, I think the 2 ending is much preferred". 

Version 2 - Piano Version
In the sketch, there's a cued piano part marked "solo" in the 2nd version. Based on the dynamic markings given to it (much softer than the strings), I can only assume that this was intended to be another alternate idea where the piano played the final theme on its own. It wasn't completely clear how the rest of the orchestra would segue into this, so I just added a fade out on the overlapping chord. It is entirely possible that I'm interpreting this wrong and the cued part would accompany the rest of the strings, however I feel this is unlikely. Anyhow, it's nice to have the cue start and end similarly. 

I think I still prefer the final version, but all 3 of the above are still very lovely. 
 
 

Wasn't quite sure where to put this so I started a new topic. 
 
John Williams composed a few different endings for the finale cue from War Horse (starting at about 2:08 in all these videos), each using different themes. Only the final version has been released, so I decided to quickly make mockups of the others. I'm not sure if this has been done before, so apologies if it has, this is one of my first times doing this so I make no promises of quality. 
 
I only have Williams' sketches for this, so note that I had to "orchestrate" the endings myself, though that required very little thought as essentially all the detail is there.
 
Version 1 
This version ends with a lovely string arrangement of the Dartmoor/Albert Theme that defined the score in the opening act, returning here for the first time since "Plowing", marked "nostalgically" in the score. It is somewhat shorter than the others (by about 6 seconds according to the timestamps in the sketch), so probably scored a slightly altered version of the final scene, but I've attached it to the picture anyway with a rather awkward fade out waiting on Joey. 

Version 2 
This version also uses primarily the strings (briefly coloured by flute/bass clarinet) on the Reunion Theme used elsewhere in the cue. Williams writes on the score "Ramiro, I think the 2 ending is much preferred". 

Version 2 - Piano Version
In the sketch, there's a cued piano part marked "solo" in the 2nd version. Based on the dynamic markings given to it (much softer than the strings), I can only assume that this was intended to be another alternate idea where the piano played the final theme on its own. It wasn't completely clear how the rest of the orchestra would segue into this, so I just added a fade out on the overlapping chord. It is entirely possible that I'm interpreting this wrong and the cued part would accompany the rest of the strings, however I feel this is unlikely. Anyhow, it's nice to have the cue start and end similarly. 

I think I still prefer the final version, but all 3 of the above are still very lovely. 
 
 

Wasn't quite sure where to put this so I started a new topic. 
 
John Williams composed a few different endings for the finale cue from War Horse (starting at about 2:08 in all these videos), each using different themes. Only the final version has been released, so I decided to quickly make mockups of the others. I'm not sure if this has been done before, so apologies if it has, this is one of my first times doing this so I make no promises of quality. 
 
I only have Williams' sketches for this, so note that I had to "orchestrate" the endings myself, though that required very little thought as essentially all the detail is there.
 
Version 1 
This version ends with a lovely string arrangement of the Dartmoor/Albert Theme that defined the score in the opening act, returning here for the first time since "Plowing", marked "nostalgically" in the score. It is somewhat shorter than the others (by about 6 seconds according to the timestamps in the sketch), so probably scored a slightly altered version of the final scene, but I've attached it to the picture anyway with a rather awkward fade out waiting on Joey. 

Version 2 
This version also uses primarily the strings (briefly coloured by flute/bass clarinet) on the Reunion Theme used elsewhere in the cue. Williams writes on the score "Ramiro, I think the 2 ending is much preferred". 

Version 2 - Piano Version
In the sketch, there's a cued piano part marked "solo" in the 2nd version. Based on the dynamic markings given to it (much softer than the strings), I can only assume that this was intended to be another alternate idea where the piano played the final theme on its own. It wasn't completely clear how the rest of the orchestra would segue into this, so I just added a fade out on the overlapping chord. It is entirely possible that I'm interpreting this wrong and the cued part would accompany the rest of the strings, however I feel this is unlikely. Anyhow, it's nice to have the cue start and end similarly. 

I think I still prefer the final version, but all 3 of the above are still very lovely. 
 
 

Wasn't quite sure where to put this so I started a new topic. 
 
John Williams composed a few different endings for the finale cue from War Horse (starting at about 2:08 in all these videos), each using different themes. Only the final version has been released, so I decided to quickly make mockups of the others. I'm not sure if this has been done before, so apologies if it has, this is one of my first times doing this so I make no promises of quality. 
 
I only have Williams' sketches for this, so note that I had to "orchestrate" the endings myself, though that required very little thought as essentially all the detail is there.
 
Version 1 
This version ends with a lovely string arrangement of the Dartmoor/Albert Theme that defined the score in the opening act, returning here for the first time since "Plowing", marked "nostalgically" in the score. It is somewhat shorter than the others (by about 6 seconds according to the timestamps in the sketch), so probably scored a slightly altered version of the final scene, but I've attached it to the picture anyway with a rather awkward fade out waiting on Joey. 

Version 2 
This version also uses primarily the strings (briefly coloured by flute/bass clarinet) on the Reunion Theme used elsewhere in the cue. Williams writes on the score "Ramiro, I think the 2 ending is much preferred". 

Version 2 - Piano Version
In the sketch, there's a cued piano part marked "solo" in the 2nd version. Based on the dynamic markings given to it (much softer than the strings), I can only assume that this was intended to be another alternate idea where the piano played the final theme on its own. It wasn't completely clear how the rest of the orchestra would segue into this, so I just added a fade out on the overlapping chord. It is entirely possible that I'm interpreting this wrong and the cued part would accompany the rest of the strings, however I feel this is unlikely. Anyhow, it's nice to have the cue start and end similarly. 

I think I still prefer the final version, but all 3 of the above are still very lovely. 
 
 

Wasn't quite sure where to put this so I started a new topic. 
 
John Williams composed a few different endings for the finale cue from War Horse (starting at about 2:08 in all these videos), each using different themes. Only the final version has been released, so I decided to quickly make mockups of the others. I'm not sure if this has been done before, so apologies if it has, this is one of my first times doing this so I make no promises of quality. 
 
I only have Williams' sketches for this, so note that I had to "orchestrate" the endings myself, though that required very little thought as essentially all the detail is there.
 
Version 1 
This version ends with a lovely string arrangement of the Dartmoor/Albert Theme that defined the score in the opening act, returning here for the first time since "Plowing", marked "nostalgically" in the score. It is somewhat shorter than the others (by about 6 seconds according to the timestamps in the sketch), so probably scored a slightly altered version of the final scene, but I've attached it to the picture anyway with a rather awkward fade out waiting on Joey. 

Version 2 
This version also uses primarily the strings (briefly coloured by flute/bass clarinet) on the Reunion Theme used elsewhere in the cue. Williams writes on the score "Ramiro, I think the 2 ending is much preferred". 

Version 2 - Piano Version
In the sketch, there's a cued piano part marked "solo" in the 2nd version. Based on the dynamic markings given to it (much softer than the strings), I can only assume that this was intended to be another alternate idea where the piano played the final theme on its own. It wasn't completely clear how the rest of the orchestra would segue into this, so I just added a fade out on the overlapping chord. It is entirely possible that I'm interpreting this wrong and the cued part would accompany the rest of the strings, however I feel this is unlikely. Anyhow, it's nice to have the cue start and end similarly. 

I think I still prefer the final version, but all 3 of the above are still very lovely. 
 
 

Wasn't quite sure where to put this so I started a new topic. 
 
John Williams composed a few different endings for the finale cue from War Horse (starting at about 2:08 in all these videos), each using different themes. Only the final version has been released, so I decided to quickly make mockups of the others. I'm not sure if this has been done before, so apologies if it has, this is one of my first times doing this so I make no promises of quality. 
 
I only have Williams' sketches for this, so note that I had to "orchestrate" the endings myself, though that required very little thought as essentially all the detail is there.
 
Version 1 
This version ends with a lovely string arrangement of the Dartmoor/Albert Theme that defined the score in the opening act, returning here for the first time since "Plowing", marked "nostalgically" in the score. It is somewhat shorter than the others (by about 6 seconds according to the timestamps in the sketch), so probably scored a slightly altered version of the final scene, but I've attached it to the picture anyway with a rather awkward fade out waiting on Joey. 

Version 2 
This version also uses primarily the strings (briefly coloured by flute/bass clarinet) on the Reunion Theme used elsewhere in the cue. Williams writes on the score "Ramiro, I think the 2 ending is much preferred". 

Version 2 - Piano Version
In the sketch, there's a cued piano part marked "solo" in the 2nd version. Based on the dynamic markings given to it (much softer than the strings), I can only assume that this was intended to be another alternate idea where the piano played the final theme on its own. It wasn't completely clear how the rest of the orchestra would segue into this, so I just added a fade out on the overlapping chord. It is entirely possible that I'm interpreting this wrong and the cued part would accompany the rest of the strings, however I feel this is unlikely. Anyhow, it's nice to have the cue start and end similarly. 

I think I still prefer the final version, but all 3 of the above are still very lovely. 
 
 

Wasn't quite sure where to put this so I started a new topic. 
 
John Williams composed a few different endings for the finale cue from War Horse (starting at about 2:08 in all these videos), each using different themes. Only the final version has been released, so I decided to quickly make mockups of the others. I'm not sure if this has been done before, so apologies if it has, this is one of my first times doing this so I make no promises of quality. 
 
I only have Williams' sketches for this, so note that I had to "orchestrate" the endings myself, though that required very little thought as essentially all the detail is there.
 
Version 1 
This version ends with a lovely string arrangement of the Dartmoor/Albert Theme that defined the score in the opening act, returning here for the first time since "Plowing", marked "nostalgically" in the score. It is somewhat shorter than the others (by about 6 seconds according to the timestamps in the sketch), so probably scored a slightly altered version of the final scene, but I've attached it to the picture anyway with a rather awkward fade out waiting on Joey. 

Version 2 
This version also uses primarily the strings (briefly coloured by flute/bass clarinet) on the Reunion Theme used elsewhere in the cue. Williams writes on the score "Ramiro, I think the 2 ending is much preferred". 

Version 2 - Piano Version
In the sketch, there's a cued piano part marked "solo" in the 2nd version. Based on the dynamic markings given to it (much softer than the strings), I can only assume that this was intended to be another alternate idea where the piano played the final theme on its own. It wasn't completely clear how the rest of the orchestra would segue into this, so I just added a fade out on the overlapping chord. It is entirely possible that I'm interpreting this wrong and the cued part would accompany the rest of the strings, however I feel this is unlikely. Anyhow, it's nice to have the cue start and end similarly. 

I think I still prefer the final version, but all 3 of the above are still very lovely. 
 
 

You click the 3 vertical dots at the top of each of your links, click "Embed item...", copy the HTML code they provide you in the text box, go over to JWfan and go into "Source" mode in the text editor of your poste, paste in the HTML code in place of the line that currently has the link, go back out of Source mode into regular mode, and you'll see it in your post

Amazing stuff. I'm a huge fan of this cue, and I was silently hoping you'd cover it. I hope I can do a reduction of it one day. 

I know this thread is quite old - but I decided to test this out to see what it was like, and this is the result if anyone else is curious. I think with no overlap the cars rolling over the hill works better with no music, and there are some convincing sync points, but the way the music starts is admittedly a bit awkward. I think the music is great for connecting with the film's message, but sacrifices some of the intensity of the scene, so I can understand why it had to go.
 

The handwriting is quite poor, but I think it's just the grainy scan that makes it really hard to read. 
I'm sure yours will be great! I hardly knew anything when I started, I just have an affinity for waffling.. lol Thanks for the kind words

The MSO is performing TFA (again) in May next year, so I think there's a chance they'll do TLJ next. The WASO did TFA this past April.

The Killing of Marcel Snowbank Sweetener Medley: Always/Dracula The Knight Bus Training Montage Baby Got Back Star Wars Theme/Cantina Band The Rope Bridge (soloist: Anne-Sophie Mutter)  
INTERMISSION
 
We Don't Wanna Grow Up 1941 Trailer The Rolling Boulder (Insert) Forward to Time Past He's a Pirate Medley: "The ______ Scene" Record Intro and Wompi Ending Sanskrit Sacrifice First encore: Augie's Great Municipal Band
 
Second encore: Wild Shark Theme (live to picture)
 
Third encore: Aunt Marge Points the Finger

Nice work! 

Not sure about 1 or 3 - I'm too tired to think lol. 3 seems so familiar but I can't quite place it. 
 
 
 

Aaagh I was afraid someone would bring that up. We discussed that back and forth with Jay and didn't have a definitive answer.
 
So, what do we have officially released?
 
- OST version: fanfare, Peter Pan 1 with a wind twirl, Peter Pan 2
- LLL version: fanfare, quiet section with another fanfare, Peter Pan 1 with a wind twirl, Peter Pan 2
 
The OST version lines up to the final film pretty perfectly as you can see in my alternate video. So: fanfare for Peter arriving, Peter Pan 1 for Hook's lines, wind twirl for Peter jumping down, Peter Pan 2 for him on deck.
 
What if I ignore the LLL version and follow the film, which joins the insert back into before Peter Pan 2 instead of Peter Pan 1? That also lines up perfectly to the final cut as you can see in my "main program" video, fanfare for Peter arriving, quiet section for Hook's lines, another fanfare for Peter jumping down, Peter Pan 2 for him on deck.
 
So what if we assume the LLL is correct?
In this case there are two possibilities:
- Between the two versions, they added something more, which JW scored with the insert, then they removed it again, but JW's insert happened to fit perfectly over the footage right after it so they still used it, replacing Peter Pan 1. This is not very likely IMO.
- The original scene JW scored was different: arrives, X, jumps down, on deck. X was scored with Peter Pan 1. Then Hook's dialogue was added before X, which JW scored with the insert, ending up with the LLL version. Then they removed X, leaving the insert to be joined into Peter Pan 2. This is a bit more likely and Peter Pan 1 is a bit too loud for Hook's lines, but I can't imagine not having them in there.
 
My main problem with both is that it seems a little too coincidentally convenient that both Peter Pan 1 and the insert end with a bit that's perfectly scoring Peter jumping down, and that the times and tempos all still lined up.
 
So what if we assume the LLL is "incorrect"?
In this case the insert is simply supposed to replace Peter Pan 1. Jay brought up the idea that maybe in the rush of the late sessions, JW or someone else responsible just simply made a mistake and looked up the wrong Peter Pan statement's key when looking for the key the insert should end on. I don't think this is that insanely implausible when you look at some of the other late session music: the Cornucopia insert drops its tempo very quickly and sharply as opposed to the original segment which ramps down more gradually and naturally; The Sword Fight's start is impossible to satisfyingly join with The Death of Rufio's final note that it's supposed to overlap, it's a complete mismatch of note, instruments, volume, energy etc; Kensington Extension also joins in kind of awkwardly as a result of not rerecording the final notes with the intended new transition but just jumping off of the already done satisfying final held note. In this case the LLL of To War!! is just Mike deciding to join the insert in in the way that actually makes more sense musically, before Peter Pan 1 in the right key.
 
But in the end, we have no definitive proof either way. The script isn't helpful with this bit, and of course the sketch for the insert didn't leak, that with sync point marker text would be the ideal case.
 
I also attempted a joining of the two released fragments, and only after it was done did I see that we both made some similar choices!

Amazing work here, this is great to go through. 
I just wanted to mention with this one, that the Insert ends solidly on a G major chord, and the bar that it is joined to on the LLL also begins on a G major chord, so we can be fairly certain that the LLL presentation is what was originally intended. But that means there's about 5 seconds of unused music - so what would that have been for? The large orchestral gesture with the WW runs (1:40 of LLL) was meant to accompany Peter's flip/landing, which is confirmed by the sketches (we have "Peter" just before, and lands after the run is completed). We also see 'Cut Sails' (I think) for 1:35 of the LLL. My suggestion is since it's Peter's Theme here, perhaps Peter had an additional line of dialogue while hovering on the top of the sails that was cut, which was followed by the runs accompanying his descent to the ship, then it matches with your edit after that? I don't have access to the script you've used, so perhaps there's some clarifying info in there. Sorry for the waffle, I hope this is useful info.
 

 
According to the sheets, the one you've labelled as 'without insert' uses the 'Alternate Insert'. The version without the insert hasn't released (afaik) - I think someone would have to mock it up. It uses the theme from 1:55 of the LLL presentation of the final cue. 
Anyway, I don't mean to be critical, this is fabulous stuff, thanks for putting all the time in to share it with us. :))

Maybe Buc is booked elsewhere - he seems to go all around the world conducting these concerts. Northey previously conducted the 2018/2019 MSO performances of ANH and ROTJ.