.jpg.2458fca6d51a83fc69819435124c5723.jpg)
-
Posts
288 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by bored
-
-
-
Been recently re-playing Transformers: The Game based on the 2007 movie, and I'm always struck by how much fun that game's score is. It's certainly better than the movie's music on a technical level, and is probably one of the best scores Steve Jablonsky has ever done (with co-composer Jonathon Flood).
-
- Popular Post
- Popular Post
@Permanent WavesI did! I finished mine a week ago and I forgot to mention it here. I like your melding of electronics, sound design, and the orchestra. It sounds almost alien and distinctive.
I did mine in a more traditional superhero style:
- Muad'Dib, Jurassic Shark, MrJosh and 1 other
-
4
-
Quality work again. Love cue 13 in particular! It's so satisfying to hear the Fawkes theme in a fuller statement again! The use of Chamber of Secrets' music is wonderful as well. For all of the talk of the later Potter films being so dark, the music never hit the darkness and suspense that Chamber's score was able to achieve for me.
I have a quick question, however about the 3-note motif. Are you eventually planning to use it to represent Harry in his darker moments like it was used in the second film? I always found one of the most haunting moments in that score to be when Harry lies to Dumbledore, and Tom Riddle doing the same being connected by that theme.
-
What style changes happen in LOTR 2 and 3? It all seems pretty cohesive and on point to me. Now you want to say The Hobbit and LOTR have significant differences, that I understand.
-
5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:
2. I just LOVE the emotional moment at 5:06 in The Face of Voldemort. No idea why this passage suddenly got to me the way it did.
Same here. I think that's actually a variant on the ending of the family theme (0:23 of Leaving Hogwarts) which is partially why it's so emotional. The John Williams trilogy of HP scores are so close to being my favorite trilogy from him. If Prisoner of Azkaban had just one reference each to themes like family, friendship, and the 3-note motif, and if Chamber of Secrets had a little less temp tracking, it would be the best, easily for me.
-
Giacchino's too dry and generic at times. I almost always recognize Powell and his style, at least since the 2010s. Desplat's good but not even close to those two.
-
2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:
Okay, I finished HP5 and here are my (probably recurring) thoughts.
Some pieces are absolutely brilliant, like the cue when they return to Hogwarts after Christmas and the arrival of the Order at the Ministry, but what annoyed me more than ever this time is this obsession to force HP1-3 material to fit the story even when it’s blatantly obvious it just won’t work, the worst example of which was without a doubt the opening of the end credits. I understand the reasoning behind this approach for this project even if I don't like it,
But it is rather flawed when you then also go and invent your own themes which Williams never heard, approved or conceived. Yes, they sound a bit like other Williams material, but nothing more.
That then begs the question: why not just try and insert previous themes at appropriate points and keep the rest of the scores by the other composers intact? I realise you wouldn't have a project like this if you did that, but just saying. I tried to fit HP1-2 themes into HP3 and was surprised to discover it almost never worked. Yes, I don’t like the complete discontinuity between those three scores, but I do understand why they did it now.
Or you could take another approach I would be very interested in: paste random Williams cues from random scores over Potter scenes that have no regard for themes, but only for the mood of the scenes in question. At least that would be more consistent with JW's original approach to HP3 where he dropped all but two themes, or even one if you choose to use the alternate Firebolt, and you would have a full score ‘composed by John Williams’.
I really don't want to discard and dismiss this project, but the mixture of somewhat average samples (I fully realise better ones might be unaffordable) and the obsessive imitation of Williams trademarks, namely the incessant piccolo bursts in action scenes, just stood out for me a little too often this time. It sometimes sounds as if you’re forcing John Williams to write a Chris Columbus score for David Yates. (Let the record show I still think he’s a BAD director.) I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the experience, though, and certainly found some moments truly delightful and inspiring. They make for very interesting 'what if' thinking, but my counter arguments sadly outweighed the benefits for me this time.
Yeah, I pretty much disagree on a fundamental level. I agree that the samples could be better (they've already improved greatly in Half-Blood Prince), and some themes seem somewhat forced, but most of the time, the Order's score is a dramatic upgrade from the one we got.
I'm getting very sick of this argument that this project doesn't change the tone at all from the Chris Columbus scores. This score has parts that sound that way, but it also has elements of the Prisoner of Azkaban score everywhere, and even some of the dark scoring that the post-Williams composers like Desplat and Hooper employed (see The Sacking of Trelawney where the string section of the first half is very similar in tone to Hooper's version, with some sections resembling the Desplat trio theme). If this project is just imitating a Columbus score, then so is Prisoner, just because it has medieval instruments, some of the action music is similar to the first 2 films, and Window to The Past has a similar development to the Family theme.
The thematic argument you're making about Prisoner is just baffling to me. I roll my eyes when Harry goes upstairs at the Dursley's house to sit besides his family portrait, and Window to The Past plays instead of the Family theme. It so obviously would have worked there, but no this film has to have edgy, minor thematic material.
It almost comes across more childish to get rid of the "happy" themes for "darker" ones without any regard for what came before. Like a child saying, "This is a new year of school, I don't have to think about what I learned last year, just learn new stuff now!" not understanding that what came before informs what you learn later. While this project, at least tries to reincorporate what came before in new creative ways. Such as in the scenes with Kreacher, where we get a demented version of Wondrous World. Not to mention the wonderful use of Wand of the Phoenix in this project, which turned an atmospheric, mysterious, but not completely noticeable theme that was only used in 2 cues from the first 2 films, and turns it into one of the most resonant, and impactful themes in the series for me.
I get where you're coming from with the frequent use of piccolo and certain Williams tropes, and how repetitive it can get but for someone who isn't Williams' age, without his scoring experience, this is an extremely impressive imitation.
However, I have no clue why you have an issue with this project creating original themes that Williams "didn't approve." None of us are psychic or know exactly what Williams would have done, that's not the point. This project is both a guess as to where Williams could have gone, and an attempt to make the music of the HP films a cohesive unit a-la Star Wars or LOTR, rather than the jarring, tonal whiplash we got with how it actually turned out.
In this respect, I think this project accomplishes that goal almost perfectly. Umbridge's theme is memorable and suitably menacing, while still being tonally distinct from Voldemort and the Death Eaters, Luna's theme is one of my favorites, having a bit of the Hooper-like bounce while still being very Williams-esque. Order of the Phoenix I was a bit disappointed with at first, as I personally thought Desplat's was better, but it really grew on me. It might be my favorite example of how this composer is trying to make the music mature, turning from the noble, happy music of Hogwarts Forever, to the more stoic sound of The Fellowship theme or Desplat's Order theme.
As for the question of only inserting themes here and there into the films' original scores... no. For one it wouldn't fit tonally as those scores are constantly different to the point of annoyance, so inserting old material suddenly would have tonal whiplash, whereas remaking the scores from the ground up to have more of a Williams feel would not only fix this problem, but fix the lack of those scores' continuity with the new themes as well.
If you just inserted non HP Williams temp-tracks to make the scores feel cohesive, first those movies' tones wouldn't necessarily work in HP since it has its own unique, distinct sound. Second, then there's no new themes and that leaves the score feeling even more repetitive, dull, and lifeless, and finally, it's just lazy. At that point you're only worried about replicating Williams' tone for similar scenes with no respect to originality. Besides, I remember the assembling of Dumbledore's army scenes being purposefully similar to Williams' work on The Post as a way of maintaining Williams' style, while giving a new sound to HP. Not really sure what more you can ask of the composer of this project at this point.
You're free to dislike it and have issues with it. I do as well. I agree on your critique for the end credits opening, and I would have preferred if the composer put more of his original suites in the end credits rather than relying so heavily on Williams' Prisoner themes. I just don't see how your counter-arguments make this project invalid in any way.
-
3 hours ago, Muad'Dib said:
The clip they chose is absolutely dreadful.
Yeah, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring for this competition, just because I think it'll be fun to score in a superhero style, but man that clip makes that show look like badly acted, cheesy, wannabe dramatic horseshit.
- MaxTheHouseelf and TSMefford
-
2
-
- Popular Post
- Popular Post
1 hour ago, Drew said:This is a great effort. But I just don't see it working. JW would have kept re-inventing the sound with each new director. He would have dropped themes and made new ones. He surely would not have used William Ross's Lucius Malfoy theme for the Death Eaters...
I hope Deathly Hallows has some exciting JW-style action music.I agree on the fact that he wouldn't have kept the Chamber of Secrets Malfoy theme, and that he might have had a unique sound for the latter 2 directors, but I don't think he would have dropped thematic material every time. I think Prisoner of Azkaban had more to do with the director's efforts to innovate rather than Williams' personal preference.
Besides, I think this project is more focused on the ideal situation Williams' work could have been throughout the series. Not necessarily a 100% accurate depiction of what the reality of the music would have been. That's why I adore the project. It basically turns the series' music into a Lord of the Rings or Star Wars-type, continuous, satisfying journey, rather than Marvel-like erratic, disjointed, mess. (Yes I'm aware that Marvel has thematic continuity but not as much as it should for my taste).
- Cerebral Cortex, TSMefford, rpvee and 2 others
-
5
-
-
- Popular Post
- Popular Post
I love the first 2, but I can't call them part of the greats. There's still some generic-sounding moments, and you can still feel the modern Hollywood / Zimmer influence here and there.
I legitimately think the 3rd film's music is one of the greats however. The choral work is gorgeous, the new themes are better than ever with the most elaborate harmonies of the series, to my knowledge, and the old ones are used so well and so precisely. When "The Vikings Have Their Tea" comes in by "Once There Were Dragons" after being absent for the whole film, I got the same feeling of warm nostalgia as when The Shire theme came in, in its fuller statements in "The Fellowship Reunited". You can really tell that working with Williams affected Powell's composition style in that film.
- Bofur01, Tom Guernsey and Yavar Moradi
-
3
-
I always think of Solo, Hubris Choral Works, and HTTYD 3 as examples that show that Powell could be one of the greats. Unfortunately, his best scores are frequently mixed way too low for most audiences to recognize their quality, and much of Powell's filmography is filled with a lot of generic, forgettable blandness, or music that's well made but not unique.
His career has highlights, but his best work is either associated with a specific franchise, or is a collab with another composer (John Williams, Zimmer, Harry Gregson-Williams). Solo is a great score to me, but not on the level of the first 6 Star Wars scores. It's probably 8th best after The Force Awakens.
-
"Music is like sentences. A question and response. People who want free Erhus don't understand this." - Hans Zimmer, probably
-
45 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:
Hans is not happy.
He's busy calling the FBI to hunt down which employees used cracked versions of his libraries and software.
-
4 minutes ago, Holko said:
A lot of the dropped themes feel pretty childish, which fit with the first 2 films but would have been more and more out of place as the series went darker and darker.
I don't know. Potter Scoring Project is doing a pretty good job of it. Plus he could always do what he did with The Force theme in Revenge of the Sith and distort the themes in different situations. Hell if you really think some of the themes wouldn't work in the form they're in now, he could always turn them into a minor key.
-
4 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:
What?!
Source:
-
- Popular Post
- Popular Post
Honestly, when it comes to JW sequel scores, I'll take a Chamber of Secrets over a Prisoner of Azkaban any day. Sure Prisoner of Azkaban is technically better, more inspired, and more original, but Chamber of Secrets at least feels like it belongs in the same musical landscape as the first film. Plus I'll take thematic development over technical achievement any day.
I would have agreed and liked Prisoner of Azkaban better, if Williams hadn't dropped virtually every theme that had been developed in the first 2 films. The new themes are great and all, but the loss of the friendship, family, and Voldemort themes especially, really cripple a lot of my investment in that score. I also have to retroactively blame Williams, or the director for starting that trend in the Potter films of abandoning most of the pre-established material, which is partially what led to such emotionally devoid and mostly lame sequel scores.
Plus there's a lot of inspired original material and development that is often ignored in Chamber. I love Williams cementing the Ron / Weasley theme, especially in "Letters from Hogwarts", there's a great new theme for the flying car, which also hosts several well-placed friendship theme reprises. The 3-note motif becomes more distinct and thoroughly developed (besides the temp-tracks which I admit are disappointing), which I always loved, since I always thought of that theme as representing Harry and Voldemort's rivalry more than anything anyway, especially considering its first appearance is when Harry gets his fortune left by his murdered parents, before the Stone is shown. Plus there's that wonderful allusion to the Hogwarts Forever theme when Gryffindor's sword appears.
Yes the Attack of the Clones references are disappointing, but then there's little touches like the Wand of Phoenix theme being used when Hermione is petrified, subtly hinting at Voldemort being the culprit, or Gilderoy Lockhart's theme being a spin-off of Hedwig's / Magic theme, as a way of characterizing an arrogant wizard. Plus I love the one-off themes like Hermione's in "Hermione and The Mudbloods" (which has elements of the family theme), that are great set-ups to be used in future films.
A lot of this might seems unimportant, but all of these details helped build the world of the series, as well as the sound of the music. Disregarding all of this for new and creative music, that only has a few tangential relations to the first films' music always rubbed me the wrong way. It's like if in Return of the Jedi, Williams or the director just said: "Ah fuck it. Let's just have a completely different sound to the music in this one, and only keep Luke's theme and the Rebellion theme." I know Double Trouble and Pettigrew's theme have ties to the Nimbus 2000 / Mischief theme, and that's great, but there's not much else in the score like this, that ties it into the last 2 films smoothly.
I agree that it would have been nice to see the themes that got concert suites developed and used more often, but I do like the way they are developed already as well. I like that Dobby's theme is more subtle and unsettling in the score until his freedom where it gets a grander, and heartwarming treatment. Fawkes isn't in much of the movie so I think the more obvious, and straightforward uses make sense to make it more memorable. I also don't personally see the dislike of the use of Myrtle and Lockhart's themes. They were used in traditional Williams fashion in their relevant scenes, (Lockhart's theme doesn't really fit when he's being forced into the Chamber to me), and Myrtle's theme is especially well developed considering her low screen time. It even has a wonderful hybrid variation with Hedwig's theme in "Myrtle's Tale".
I agree that the Chamber theme was used well, but I don't know if I think it should have been used with the Basilisk. Sure it would have been great to get the bombastic rendition heard in the suite, but I also like the idea that it's used as an ever looming threat of what could be, and when it's revealed that Voldemort is the cause, it's only Voldemort material used for the Chamber onwards. Yes, I count the temp tracking of "The Face of Voldemort" because the theme is still in the movie, and Voldemort therefore still has his original thematic material. I think if Williams had more time, he probably would have composed new variations of Voldemort's main 2 themes anyway for those scenes.
Don't get me wrong, I love Prisoner of Azkaban's score, but I do think its originality is a detriment as much as it is a benefit. It keeps some elements of the sound of the first 2 scores, but the lack of retained themes, and building on what came before really makes it feel more like a black sheep that doesn't belong more than anything. A very smart, and a fine specimen of a black sheep, but a black sheep nonetheless. P.S. Apologies for the essay, I might have gone too far in a few places.
- darkspine10, Manakin Skywalker, Jay and 1 other
-
3
-
1
-
I love Spider-Man 2, and agree it's a wonderful maturation of the themes, but Spider-Man 1 has always been a classic for me. I imagine this isn't a popular opinion around here, but I think every note, and every track in the film, is perfect in Spider-Man (2002). Each for completely different reasons.
My example is always the film version of the track "The Fire". It could have just been another epic / heroic track with slight suspense, but how it starts off right out the gate, as suspenseful and terrifying, building up perfectly to what seem to be dissonant resolution in the trombones, and suddenly the Spider-Man "B" theme springs from the trumpets. Then the uncertainty in the strings and woodwinds, to the eventual buildup to a new variant of the main Spider-Man theme. Not to mention the pure tension onwards after Spider-Man re-enters the building. Every note of that track adds so much to that scene's tone and atmosphere.
Still have to listen to Batman Returns as well, but I have my doubts on whether it can really beat the first film's score.
-
Finished a 9-minute track for my sci-fi album. Decided to throw in some sci-fi ambience and Halo 3 ODST references, in addition to the more traditional Goldsmith / Williams / Holst style.
-
Loved the mixing on this one! Might be the most realistic-sounding track yet!
-
Found another instance of the first 15 seconds of Young Anakin's theme in ROTS, in its original key from TPM suite no less:
0:37
Also the cellos after the trumpet statement of Young Anakin sound like a possible variant on the B section of Anakin's theme where, instead of several notes going down, but rising back up, the melody just keeps falling, possibly to show how Anakin has fallen.
1:18
-
Haven't listened to as many as I would like, but based on what I've listened to so far, this is what I've got:
1. Spider-Man (Elfman)
2. Spider-Man 2 (Elfman)
3. Superman (Williams) - The reason I put this under the Elfman scores is basically the Krypton music, which I find dreadfully boring.
4. The Rocketeer (Horner)
5. Batman 1989 (Elfman)
6. Batman: The Animated Series (Walker)
7. Spider-Man 3 (Young)
8. Incredibles 1 (Giacchino)
9. The Amazing Spider-Man (Horner)
10. Captain America: The First Avenger (Silvestri)
11. Iron Man 3 (Tyler)
12. Batman Begins (Zimmer & Newton Howard)
13. The Dark Knight (Zimmer & Newton Howard)
14. The Dark Knight Rises (Zimmer)
15. Iron Man 1 (Djawadi)
16. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (Zimmer)
The rest I either haven't listened to, or simply don't remember any themes from them.
-
I have been slowly making my way through Herrmann's work recently, and though I love a lot of it, none of it has the emotional resonance or staying power as LOTR, or even the Hobbit scores for me.
I'm not saying Shore's music is objectively better, because it probably isn't, but I adore sci-fi and fantasy scores that not only create melodies that represent what they're meant to perfectly, but also do everything they can to be lore-friendly and assist in world building just as much as the film itself does.
The decision to get the choir to sing poems and dialogue from the books, in Tolkien's languages, and the way themes are used to expand, or build on lore that the content of the film couldn't cover, are genius ideas (yes I know the choral languages were not only Shore's work but it still improves the music's quality overall).
So to answer the thread, Herrmann is probably objectively a stronger, and more innovative composer, but I think Shore's LOTR music is more appealing overall and has stronger memorability for general audiences (with the exception of the shower string clusters from Psycho).
Video Game Music
in General Discussion
Posted
The entire score is available on YouTube through Transformers: The Game OST playlists. It's a lot of fun, but some sections are better than others. Generally I enjoy the Autobot music a lot more than the Decepticon ones.