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Posts posted by bored
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Interesting, as I'm usually the opposite when composing. I usually remember how I was thinking about constructing the piece, and my thematic intentions first, and what state of mind I was in second.
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The amount of things I'd ask composers about thematic material...
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5 hours ago, mrbellamy said:
I also have to think it's much more likely coincidence since if he had the thought to do that on purpose, why would he also write a whole other theme for Dobby. But it's good happenstance.
I would agree, but the last minute has several statements that sound almost exactly like a sad version of the initial phrase of Williams' theme.
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On 5/31/2021 at 6:58 PM, mrbellamy said:
Hopefully not stepping on your toes there @Potter Scoring Project, I trust you will come up with something more original
It'll be hard to top Desplat's blending of his theme for Ron, Harry, and Hermione with Williams' Dobby theme, but I'm sure they'll figure something out.
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Even though I really like Nick Arundel's work in Batman: Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, I still think Batman 89 is the best. Elfman nailed the quintessential Batman sound and atmosphere. Though I think The Animated Series' music and themes remain a close second.
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Just recently got the East West Hollywood Orchestra, (not Opus Edition) and I've had very little issues with those. Great muted and unmuted brass and string stuff especially. To me it's one of the most realistic sounding libraries.
I remember hearing a cover of Hedwig's theme using that set, and while there were a few issues here and there, it sounded almost entirely realistic and accurate to the original recording. My only issue with the libraries is some of the legatos for woodwinds sound kind of bad because they often have an accent no matter what the modulation or expression is set to.
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Fair enough. Good for Lurie then, being able to capture Elfman's sound so well for that unused ending.
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16 minutes ago, ddddeeee said:
There was an interview with Lurie for (I think) FilmScoreMonthly, and she spoke about writing that cue.
She also said she didn't work with Young and worked directly with Raimi.
Can you provide a link? She could have been referring to just writing the final cue of the movie, but not the specific cue credited to Elfman.
5 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:At that point in time Elfman practically resented Raimi, so there's no way he would have worked on the film, even to write just one cue. It's not like it was meant to be a sendoff or anything like that, considering a fourth film was already planned and in early development.
I'm saying it could have been Elfman's personal send-off to the series since he probably wouldn't have done the 4th film. I know he did work with Young a bit on incorporating the original themes so that's why I think it's possible he wrote one cue.
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I know she wrote a lot of cues for "Happy Ending", but the Elfman-credited one sounds way too different from those for that to be believable to me. Got any credits or confirmations of this?
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Can't say for sure, but every single expanded release that has this cue (plus the person who made the video) always credit Elfman with that. I think it makes sense since the love theme is manipulated in a completely new way, similar to how Elfman did in Spider-Man 2 with "A Really Big Web", and none of the rest of the composers' tracks for this scene use the Peter Parker theme once it transitions to the credits.
It really feels like Elfman's last "hurrah" to me and based on how the other composers used his material in SM3, I don't think they could have made that final track.
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13 hours ago, karelm said:
Elfman made it clear he wanted no part of the project so his music was used without his creative involvement.
That's not entirely true. There was one cue that Elfman (probably grudgingly) composed for the epilogue of Spider-Man 3 that even contains the final reprise of the Peter Parker theme. I guess he wanted to send off his own themes himself (this went unused of course).
20:24
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4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:
He's not right for every movie.
I don't know about that. Pretty sure he could score any movie when given the chance. Lucas didn't think an original score would be right for Star Wars until Spielberg campaigned for Williams.
I'm constantly surprised at how adaptable he is whenever I listen to a Williams score I hadn't heard before. I think the question of whether he's willing, or interested in the movie is more relevant.
- Edmilson and Yavar Moradi
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That's amazingly haunting. I don't know how that one went over my head. Guess I didn't pay enough attention to Episode 2's end credits music since I thought it was just suites.
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10 hours ago, Nick Parker said:
The interplay between Anakin's Theme, Across the Stars, and the Imperial March at the end of the AOTC credits tells the whole story of the prequel trilogy in just a single minute of music. I believe the word for that is...uhhh, checking....
Do you have the timecode for that? I didn't know about this!
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7 minutes ago, Bellosh said:
I just can't wrap my head around it. Does Indy really take a backseat for most of the action in this film to make it believable?!
Unless the filmmakers are looking to kill him (Ford or Indy), sadly yes.
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I didn't know about that statement in Scenes and Dreams, that's really subtle, and interesting that he'd include that unmodified version.
13 hours ago, Falstaft said:But even that is not at all close enough to Anakin's Theme proper for me to consider it a variant. Really, it would need to have Anakin's opening intervallic pattern of G-C-D-A or C-D-E-F#-D for me to count it -- for whatever that's worth. (People are free to make their own musical associations, that's what Williams wants anyway!)
I know it doesn't have the same start, but that's what I'm wondering. If Williams went so thematically complex to the point that he completely changed Anakin's theme to minor and gave it more similarities to The Imperial March as the film goes on. It sounds to me that's what he's doing, but it's so hard to tell because his themes are usually a lot easier to spot.
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I'm guessing most users on this forum know about Anakin's theme from The Phantom Menace, and how it's basically constructed by twisting the melody and chords of the Imperial March into an innocent theme for Anakin. The idea being that as the series goes on it will develop fully into Vader's theme.
I've seen many criticisms of the prequel scores stating that this never happened, and as a result some see this element as wasted potential.
But is this really the case? I've listened to the complete score many times for the prequel trilogy and Revenge of the Sith in particular, and always thought at least the main ideas of Anakin's theme were carried through in different forms. The main theme associated with Anakin in ROTS being the "Battle of the Heroes" theme, which is even used as his main theme in Battlefront 2 (2017). It sounds somewhat like a minor version of the first 15 seconds of Anakin's TPM theme.
0:08 - 0:22
I've also picked up motifs that sound very similar to this one in other tracks. Such as the main idea found in Anakin's Dark Deeds, and tracks like Padme's Visit, making me think it's a theme for Anakin to bridge the gap between his Phantom Menace version and The Imperial March.
(Throughout)
0:42 - 0:53
I've also heard what sound like warped versions of Anakin's theme in minor keys to show his turn to evil.
2:49 - 2:52 & 3:10 - 3:19 (and of course Vader's theme after).
4:46 - 4:57
Then there's the main melody of "The Immolation Scene" which seems to bear the most resemblance to Anakin's original theme (still in minor of course), which seems to have been done intentionally as a way of conveying how far he has fallen, and using the cluster/trill strings to put "damage" on the theme just as Anakin is being damaged.
(Also call me crazy but I think there's a sort of hybrid variation of Vader and Anakin's theme at 2:02 - end).
Apologies for the amount of links and how long this post is, but I want to know what you guys think of this since many of you understand Williams' music better than I do. Am I crazy, and these are just coincidences, or just plain inaccurate? Or do you think this is Williams' way of developing Anakin's thematic content into Vader's?
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It really is just preference. None of this is really objective. I personally think Batman Begins is a much more entertaining movie than The Dark Knight. Does this mean I think it's a better movie by my own standards? No it does not.
The Dark Knight in my opinion has great dialogue, interesting conflicts, a compelling and very well-defined villain, and character arcs that fit in perfectly with the themes set up by the movie's story. These are things I think objectively makes a movie better, but I don't have as much fun watching it as I do Batman Begins. Nor is my opinion objective fact, as many on this forum hate Nolan's Batman trilogy.
I enjoy Batman Begins more because I think Bale's Batman voice is tolerable and serviceable most of the movie. I like that Batman does more detective work on and off-screen, as well as him using stealth to terrify thugs, and seeing the Batmobile in action. I think the music was well-rounded in the balance of styles, had many themes that made it interesting to listen to, and had a satisfying development.
These were aspects lost in the other 2 Batman movies in my opinion, that make BB more fun to watch. Do I think this makes Batman Begins a better movie? No, because I think dialogue, conflicts, characters, story themes, and arcs are more important than these mostly aesthetic choices I personally enjoy more.
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11 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:
My most recent piece was again written for a fan-made audio drama based on a Star Wars book. Of course no footage exists for it, so I cobbled together some random footage I had on my hard drive to somewhat match the overall narrative and attempted to score that.
Good work! Love the use of The Old Republic theme from KOTOR 1. I definitely hear a lot of those 2 games' styles in this track which I'm guessing was to reflect the era this book takes place in. If that's the case, then well done indeed!
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1 hour ago, crumbs said:
Stop Butchering The Force Theme.
Yet another reason I love John Powell's score to Solo. Little to no pointless, ham-fisted uses of the force theme.
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3 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:
He's clever enough to follow the Millennium Falcon's stealth manoeuvre. Other than that, the most successful thing he does is make a deal with Vader that almost just yields him a worthless dead Han.
Well he did stand up to Vader in a vain attempt to stop the whole procedure. As previously mentioned, that takes some cojones. I think a lot of his popularity besides his actions in Empire is aesthetic. His suit looks unique yet rough, he's got an awesome voice (in the original version), and he's got a completely different looking ship compared to everything else in the first 2 movies.
I'm mixed on his ROTJ death. On one hand, it's kind of nice to see a character just go out in a nonchalant way without any real fanfare, as he is just a henchman that isn't given any real importance outside of Han. On the other hand he goes out in such a comical and stupid way that it makes you wonder how he had the brains to track Han in the first place.
As for ROTJ in general, upon rewatch it's definitely the most flawed, but I still enjoy it way more than any other Star Wars movie entry. The plotline on Endor (and everything with Han post-Jabba) is pretty boring and tedious, but I love everything outside of it. The second Death Star battle is thrilling, and the finale with Luke, Vader, and Palpatine is one of the most compelling final confrontations in science fiction/fantasy.
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17 minutes ago, gkgyver said:
This may also explain Jurassic Park 3, where he collaborated with Don Davis, and every subsequent Harry Potter score not using Williams themes much except for a token appearance or two.
Well, if he really is responsible for the lack of thematic continuity in Harry Potter, and not just the studio heads failing to pay for the rights to use his themes, then I'm certainly not a fan of that mindset. I get why he'd be pissed about composers plagiarizing his orchestrations, but not allowing them to just use his themes seems a bit over-protective.
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4 minutes ago, toothless said:
I voted no because the current process of film making itself inherently prevents any great score to be written (or heard).
I recently re-watched the HTTYD trilogy, and holy hell I did not realize how low in the mix the music was in those movies, especially the 2nd and 3rd ones.
I don't think they're the best film music ever made, but they're at least close to Star Wars caliber in many ways in terms of thematic continuity and satisfying development. It could have just been the particular movie files I had but man, was the mix bad on those.
New Project: John Williams Potter Scoring
in JOHN WILLIAMS
Posted
Great start to the Half-Blood Prince score! I noticed there's not a lot of reverb in these Harry Potter tracks, and I'm wondering is that done intentionally or not? I think a lot of these cues would benefit from some added reverb to give it a bigger, more realistic sound.