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Posts posted by bored
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I don't know what cut is real anymore.
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I take back everything bad I ever thought about Adam Wingard for choosing Junkie over Desplat or McCreary. This man's the most sophisticated and inspired filmmaker of this decade.
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Wait... non-Avengers Marvel movies have scores??
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I know, I was using them as an example to explain that I can enjoy RCP / Hans Zimmer influenced music.
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"I Am The Senate" is pretty fantastic. The action is energetic and terrifying, and the atmosphere and buildup to Vader's theme after Windu is killed is superb.
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I'll say this about Djawadi. I've listened to and liked the scores of Transformers 1, 2, and 5 (by Jablonsky). They're not masterpieces, they're flawed as hell, and have a lot of generic o's modern Hollywood musical clichés in them, but to me it's like the film score equivalent of rock and roll, or metal. Just fun, simple, and energizing music. Same with The Dark Knight Trilogy, and the first 2 movies actually have a lot of substance thanks mostly to James Newton Howard.
I've tried again and again to get into Djawadi. I really have. I've listened to many of his tracks from Clash of the Titans, Game of Thrones, and Pacific Rim. I've watched video essays analyzing the music in Game of Thrones. I am bored to tears every time I listen to his stuff. It's like milk-toast versions of Hans Zimmer's 2000s work, and Howard Shore's LOTR. His leitmotifs are simple to the point of frustration.
I remember being excited to listen to the dragon leitmotif, but my immediate reaction to hearing it was... that was it? 2 notes at a time as if I was listening to any post The Dark Knight Zimmer score. Compare that to the Dragonborn theme from Skyrim, Smaug's theme, or HTTYD's menacing dragon theme, and it looks even more pathetic in comparison. This example carries over to most of Djawadi's themes for me, completely underwhelming, derivative, and passionless.
I don't think Djawadi is the worst composer out there today, but ultimately as forgettable as composers like Göransson, or Balfe.
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1 hour ago, Tom said:
Possible? Of course. Probable? Absolutely not. I would put it as a 1% chance and only because Williams is still active. I think someone could surpass Williams, but not from the current group of active composers, but I suppose the decade is young.
I think John Powell has the potential to surpass Williams. Will he? Probably not, no.
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7 minutes ago, Jay said:
I just love "Entrance Of The Monsters" to death
Gotta agree, annoying that it was cut down so heavily. Though I do agree that it makes a better theme for the clones / republic than the Arena, it's just a shame that we never really got a full statement like that presented on the album.
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It's possible, but it'll likely be a hidden gem is my guess. It won't be an instant hit/classic in this age, it won't be a mainstream blockbuster most likely either. My guess is an animated film that is known but not super well known, (like HTTYD which is the closest thing we have to Star Wars nowadays), or a movie that becomes mainstream seemingly out of nowhere like a LOTR or Star Wars that ends up producing the greatest film score of all time.
I don't have high hopes for either outcome, especially after 2020 where the studios are now even less likely to take risks (unless the market collapses entirely), but it's certainly possible if not highly unlikely.
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Up, for sheer quality and emotional resonance, Shape of Water for interesting, French experimental weirdness. The rest I either haven't listened to or can go suck on a donkey stick.
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The Hobbit Songs aren't even worth mentioning in comparison to the LOTR ones. Personally I always thought Gollum's Song was the best. A beautifully haunting new theme (with great lyrics) for Gollum for his depressing reversion in The Two Tower's ending.
It even has some terrific foreshadowing when it incorporates lines of dialogue that would reappear in his transformation in Return of the King!
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Steve Jablonsky - all of his recent sound design gobbledygook
Jeremy Soule - Warhammer
Hans Zimmer- Man of Steel / BvS (same thing really)
Danny Elfman - Alice in Wonderland (can't remember a thing from it.)
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On the whole, I admire him, and he seems like a cool guy, but the prequels and his changes to the OT are worse than anything J.J. Abrams, Rian Johnson, or Kathleen Kennedy could even hope to screw up.
...Maclunkey
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21 minutes ago, Thor said:
Yes, but Newman didn't do it. R&R did. Instead of focussing on what you think the score should have sounded like in your head, or who should have been the composer, I think it's more fruitful to look at what it actually is and what they're trying to accomplish. You're free to dislike it, of course, but I disagree with your assessment. It is the very lean electronic sound that makes it so effective. Anything more "complex" would completely have defeated the purpose. I'm glad I didn't get Newman's take on ambient electronic music in this film; I'm glad I got exactly what I got - R&R's take on it.
Sure, but my point is similar to @TheUlyssesian. There's so little going on, so little to distinguish it, so little style, and so little to get out of it that the fact that R&R made it means basically nothing to me. I understand that with the film the musical style change probably works wonders, but I've never been more bored listening to a piece of music than when listening to R&R tracks. They're not just simplistic, they're barren.
I understand they're not catering to me, but it's so mind-numbingly bare that I don't understand how ANYONE gets something out of it. Good for you for being able to enjoy it, but I just don't understand what there is to like about it.
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6 minutes ago, Thor said:
I think you're misunderstanding or overlooking the purpose of the score here, superultrasomething. The point is that the afterlife (or pre-life) is a sort of tabula rasa; their story isn't written yet. So a stark, ethereal, "blank" electronic landscape perfectly mirrors that existence. Vice versa, the jazz music stands in warm contrast as full of life. It's the contrast between the two that makes the score, and the story, and the film.
I've never understand this tendency to wish scores were in a preferred musical idiom, without taking into consideration the particular purpose and theme of the film the music is accompanying.
No I get what both of you is saying. Once again, you can easily do this with orchestra and jazz, or a Thomas Newman-like approach. Composers have found many ways of conveying different worlds and moods through many different instruments. I like electronic music. I don't just like one musical idiom. I even said I thought "Pursuit/Terry's World" was very well done. The issue is the electronics never get to that level of sophistication in the writing ever again.
I think the issue is, electronic music is relatively recent, so we think the most basic progressions and sound design are more impressive than they really are. I firmly believe any amateur composer could have cranked the R&R part of this score out in a month at most. I know what my ears hear, and what they hear is barren, simplistic music.
You want to say the barren, forgettable music is the point and made for artistic reasons? Fine, I get that, that makes sense. To praise this score however as anything but serviceable to the movie? I can never agree.
11 minutes ago, Thor said:I don't find it basic at all. I find the R&R cues to be very sophisticated. They were perfectly cast for this, and I'm thankful Newman was nowhere near this. I mean, I love him, but I'd rather have specialists in that particular idiom doing it.
R&R are great composers who have really pushed the envelope in recent years - especially with MID90s, MANK and SOUL. Showed a range I hadn't heard before. Good bless 'em!
Newman isn't a specialist? There are plenty of Newman ambient tracks that sound almost identical to this style.
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27 minutes ago, Mephariel said:
I disagree with this. The strength of the movie is that it doesn’t have a conventional narrative. If this movie is about a princess going on an adventure slaying a dragon, then a more traditional, melodic score would make sense. You want the music to guide to you through the action and triumph/heartache. But while watching Soul, I had no idea where the story was going other than to expect a happy ending. Everything was conceptual and abstract and there were many twists and turns. The music that Ross and Reznor did reflected that. It never gave hints as to what consequences of each action.
First, orchestral music with themes can have ambiguity and not necessarily tell you where it's going. LOTR is a quintessential example of an epic orchestral operatic score, and there are times where the music leaves the audience wondering where it's gonna go. That's almost the definition of musical tension that people like Wagner perfected in. It doesn't have to be simplistic. The Sixth Sense also succeeds in this (yes I know a lot of people say certain themes give the twist away, but the themes in that movie I think are purposefully hard to assign a label to).
Second, even if you still think it needed a more unconventional style, what is jazz often most known for? Being an often strange and unconventional musical style that often gives nothing away of where it's going to go. This is why I also think that they should have just had Jon Batiste compose the whole score if they didn't want a traditional orchestra. I think Ross and Reznor just went with the most obvious approach, with "Ooh, weird ambience that doesn't convey much! Whoo! How mysterious!"
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Well, after hearing the score in the movie, it's not good, and I don't blame anyone for skipping through it. It's just Man of Steel and BvS again. Loud, pounding drums, simplistic action writing, dull motifs classified as themes, and occasional emotional cues that are written well enough, but sound like they could come from any movie.
I will say that I hated the Superman theme in Man of Steel, but in the Snyder Cut of JL, I did find it to be surprisingly touching at times, and somewhat epic when he saves Cyclops. Part of that was the fact that it was actually used in different ways and different key signatures, whereas I can't remember a single time in Man of Steel where the theme had any power and I wasn't just rolling my eyes at how derivative and dull it was.
Of course this is all rendered moot by the awful Wonder Woman wailing which undercuts many scenes that could have been epic or emotional.
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Well, decided to listen to this score after looking through this topic and seeing many here give praise to it. Jon Batiste should have done the whole score, without a doubt. I'm sure he could have made some heartwarming orchestral / jazz pieces that would have worked brilliantly. I'm in agreement with @TheUlyssesian that Thomas Newman has danced circles around the Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross score before it was even written (if you can call loading in a bunch of Logic instruments and playing basic harmonies and looping melodies written).
"Pursuit/Terry's World" is the only Reznor/Ross cue worth a damn. Where it mixes the Jazz style, and beautifully/seamlessly mixes it into a similar sounding synth piece. The rest is the same simplistic, pleasant, ambient piano and synth that people like Hans Zimmer or RCP composers in general, Thomas Newman, and various video game composers have done again, and again, and again, often doing it better.
It's not impressive, it's not revolutionary, it's not interesting to listen to, it's not special, it's typical. It's the new generic. The fact that these type of scores that work fine in the film get awards as often as they do, is a testament to how low people's standards for music have gotten. This is a score I and many other amateur composers could have written within a month at most, if I spent a day on each cue.
"Well it worked really well in the film." Sometimes silence works really well in films. Doesn't mean we should praise the music for not existing. A more melodic score for this movie probably would have worked as well, would have had more effort and skill put into it, and would've been a more rich listening experience in film and outside of the film. These 2 composers were chosen because they're associated with a lot of really good movies, and many audiences, critics, and directors follow a very simplistic logic for film music. If the movie sucks, the music sucks because it emphasized crap writing. If the movie is great, then the music was great and fit the film perfectly.
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I just want to be an extra in the way distant background. My head just pops up in the back of the frame every now and then.
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Finally finished a classical composition for spring. I didn't have any specific form in mind, it's more or less my attempt to develop a single motif through many variations.
- SteveMc, karelm and Jurassic Shark
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That new Wonder Woman choir was the most pathetic theme I've ever heard in my life. I watched the Snyder Cut with my friends, and every time that theme came up instead of HZ's theme, we burst out laughing. We even began to reference Minnie the Moocher whenever we heard it.
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The sound is exactly the same. Yes the progression itself could have been thought of independently, but it's almost the exact same, so even that I have a hard time believing. Plus the 2 note motif is only one part of that progression, the rest sounds exactly like Jablonsky's.
Even if I give the benefit of the doubt and say the exact same chord progression is a coincidence, someone from HZ's team decided to get the exact same sound for TDKR brass from Your Highness. I think the TF3 situation is more likely overall.
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Found a shocking example of Hans Zimmer possibly stealing an idea from his own student!
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Thank god for this thread mentioning the 1954 remaster! Listening to it now, and this rerecording is beautiful! The opening titles sound almost as good as the 2019 KOTM movie's music quality.
John Powell on working with John Williams for 'Solo'
in JOHN WILLIAMS
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I wouldn't be surprised. I still don't remember anything from Rogue One's score. I even gave Jyn Erso's theme another listen and I still don't remember it.
It is pretty funny how they kept checking with Powell whether it was ok to write with the most famous film composer ever. It's the film score equivalent of "Do you want to be taught by Stephen Hawking? Are you sure that's really what you want?"