karelm

Eheheh....Williams calls movie theaters "the cineplex".   He probably calls iphones "telecommunication devices" and cars are "horseless carriages".    I will confess to not knowing any of his 60's scores but loving his 50's jazzy albums.  I know and love his tv scores like Lost in Space but there is much to discover from his early career.  

Eheheh....Williams calls movie theaters "the cineplex".   He probably calls iphones "telecommunication devices" and cars are "horseless carriages".    I will confess to not knowing any of his 60's scores but loving his 50's jazzy albums.  I know and love his tv scores like Lost in Space but there is much to discover from his early career.  

Not true.  There are many possible reasons to doubt it.  One scenario I experienced firsthand; a young woman hired by a prominent composer used that opportunity to promote her own career - a big no no.   While she was working for the composer, she presented herself and her music in secret instead of the composer she worked for just to get an in with the producers.  She was fired on the spot when it was discovered.  That isn't unusual.  Opportunities are rare and people sometimes take a risk that can get them fired.  It can be a cutthroat industry.  Your teammate could say I have your back till it benefits them not to.  Did you ever hear of her before this?  I doubt it.  I'm not saying if her allegations are true or false, just that you can't possibly claim her name and reputation were destroyed.  She had no name and Elfman was a major name.  That's the whole power imbalance.  By the way, women can be guilty of this too!  Read the massive thread by Jeremy Soule's accuser...women executives were at fault because they were part of the old boys club when they became executives.  It's way, way more complex than you make it to be.
 
I still think it's worth adding substance abuse and other topics because all of these happen at the same time and what someone might think is sexual assault might actually be something else.  It can be very unclear.  Here is another example...I dated a musician.  During that time, I hired an orchestra for a score.  I asked the contractor to hire my gf.  He said that would not work well for her.  The other musicians would banish her because she got "special treatment".  So by my hiring her as my gf, I would harm her career.  We then broke up.  She claimed I hurt her career by limiting her opportunities.  It's really tricky and your "no reason to doubt the story" is not true.  

Not true.  There are many possible reasons to doubt it.  One scenario I experienced firsthand; a young woman hired by a prominent composer used that opportunity to promote her own career - a big no no.   While she was working for the composer, she presented herself and her music in secret instead of the composer she worked for just to get an in with the producers.  She was fired on the spot when it was discovered.  That isn't unusual.  Opportunities are rare and people sometimes take a risk that can get them fired.  It can be a cutthroat industry.  Your teammate could say I have your back till it benefits them not to.  Did you ever hear of her before this?  I doubt it.  I'm not saying if her allegations are true or false, just that you can't possibly claim her name and reputation were destroyed.  She had no name and Elfman was a major name.  That's the whole power imbalance.  By the way, women can be guilty of this too!  Read the massive thread by Jeremy Soule's accuser...women executives were at fault because they were part of the old boys club when they became executives.  It's way, way more complex than you make it to be.
 
I still think it's worth adding substance abuse and other topics because all of these happen at the same time and what someone might think is sexual assault might actually be something else.  It can be very unclear.  Here is another example...I dated a musician.  During that time, I hired an orchestra for a score.  I asked the contractor to hire my gf.  He said that would not work well for her.  The other musicians would banish her because she got "special treatment".  So by my hiring her as my gf, I would harm her career.  We then broke up.  She claimed I hurt her career by limiting her opportunities.  It's really tricky and your "no reason to doubt the story" is not true.  

Not true.  There are many possible reasons to doubt it.  One scenario I experienced firsthand; a young woman hired by a prominent composer used that opportunity to promote her own career - a big no no.   While she was working for the composer, she presented herself and her music in secret instead of the composer she worked for just to get an in with the producers.  She was fired on the spot when it was discovered.  That isn't unusual.  Opportunities are rare and people sometimes take a risk that can get them fired.  It can be a cutthroat industry.  Your teammate could say I have your back till it benefits them not to.  Did you ever hear of her before this?  I doubt it.  I'm not saying if her allegations are true or false, just that you can't possibly claim her name and reputation were destroyed.  She had no name and Elfman was a major name.  That's the whole power imbalance.  By the way, women can be guilty of this too!  Read the massive thread by Jeremy Soule's accuser...women executives were at fault because they were part of the old boys club when they became executives.  It's way, way more complex than you make it to be.
 
I still think it's worth adding substance abuse and other topics because all of these happen at the same time and what someone might think is sexual assault might actually be something else.  It can be very unclear.  Here is another example...I dated a musician.  During that time, I hired an orchestra for a score.  I asked the contractor to hire my gf.  He said that would not work well for her.  The other musicians would banish her because she got "special treatment".  So by my hiring her as my gf, I would harm her career.  We then broke up.  She claimed I hurt her career by limiting her opportunities.  It's really tricky and your "no reason to doubt the story" is not true.  

There is nothing wrong with showing off your sex appeal. That is not a crime. Guys and ladies in the entertainment industry do it all the time. People in other field do it as well. Sexual assault on the other hand, is. I am not saying Elfman is guilty, but her sex appeal is completely irrelevant. 

I agree with you that it's a bad situation either way and I haven't fully formulated my thoughts on the topic as this is a tricky and loaded topic.  Some general thoughts I have though is the victim pretty much hates men.  She's in a music composer forum I'm in and is almost always aggressive towards any opinion that doesn't align with her points as being example of patriarchy and demonstrating further examples of industry wide abuse towards women.  The truth is this very same thing has happened to almost everyone in the industry, not just women.  On the other side, it is very, very hard to imagine any scenario where Elfman would pay nearly a billion dollars and be completely innocent as he claims.  My intuition is it is probably something in the middle like he probably did something inappropriate while under the influence, not that that excuses him, but might mean it isn't something in character and he might truly have no recollection yet did something very inappropriate too.  Clearly, it's a male dominated industry and there are very few protections in place (there is no corporate HR to complain to for example).  In my experiences, there have been near fist fights and blows during work sometimes between boss and staff and this happened to men and women.  Lots of derogatory talk (they might tell you to go jack off for a bit in a room full of mixed audiences if they need to chat privately), naked pictures or porn sitting openly around, stuff like that.  This was way before #METOO and I'll assume they've cleaned up their act quite a lot but the point is can be a generally abusive environment and sometimes that abusiveness is emotional, physical, sexual, or substance too and the lines can be blurry. 

I agree with you that it's a bad situation either way and I haven't fully formulated my thoughts on the topic as this is a tricky and loaded topic.  Some general thoughts I have though is the victim pretty much hates men.  She's in a music composer forum I'm in and is almost always aggressive towards any opinion that doesn't align with her points as being example of patriarchy and demonstrating further examples of industry wide abuse towards women.  The truth is this very same thing has happened to almost everyone in the industry, not just women.  On the other side, it is very, very hard to imagine any scenario where Elfman would pay nearly a billion dollars and be completely innocent as he claims.  My intuition is it is probably something in the middle like he probably did something inappropriate while under the influence, not that that excuses him, but might mean it isn't something in character and he might truly have no recollection yet did something very inappropriate too.  Clearly, it's a male dominated industry and there are very few protections in place (there is no corporate HR to complain to for example).  In my experiences, there have been near fist fights and blows during work sometimes between boss and staff and this happened to men and women.  Lots of derogatory talk (they might tell you to go jack off for a bit in a room full of mixed audiences if they need to chat privately), naked pictures or porn sitting openly around, stuff like that.  This was way before #METOO and I'll assume they've cleaned up their act quite a lot but the point is can be a generally abusive environment and sometimes that abusiveness is emotional, physical, sexual, or substance too and the lines can be blurry. 

I agree with you that it's a bad situation either way and I haven't fully formulated my thoughts on the topic as this is a tricky and loaded topic.  Some general thoughts I have though is the victim pretty much hates men.  She's in a music composer forum I'm in and is almost always aggressive towards any opinion that doesn't align with her points as being example of patriarchy and demonstrating further examples of industry wide abuse towards women.  The truth is this very same thing has happened to almost everyone in the industry, not just women.  On the other side, it is very, very hard to imagine any scenario where Elfman would pay nearly a billion dollars and be completely innocent as he claims.  My intuition is it is probably something in the middle like he probably did something inappropriate while under the influence, not that that excuses him, but might mean it isn't something in character and he might truly have no recollection yet did something very inappropriate too.  Clearly, it's a male dominated industry and there are very few protections in place (there is no corporate HR to complain to for example).  In my experiences, there have been near fist fights and blows during work sometimes between boss and staff and this happened to men and women.  Lots of derogatory talk (they might tell you to go jack off for a bit in a room full of mixed audiences if they need to chat privately), naked pictures or porn sitting openly around, stuff like that.  This was way before #METOO and I'll assume they've cleaned up their act quite a lot but the point is can be a generally abusive environment and sometimes that abusiveness is emotional, physical, sexual, or substance too and the lines can be blurry. 

I agree with you that it's a bad situation either way and I haven't fully formulated my thoughts on the topic as this is a tricky and loaded topic.  Some general thoughts I have though is the victim pretty much hates men.  She's in a music composer forum I'm in and is almost always aggressive towards any opinion that doesn't align with her points as being example of patriarchy and demonstrating further examples of industry wide abuse towards women.  The truth is this very same thing has happened to almost everyone in the industry, not just women.  On the other side, it is very, very hard to imagine any scenario where Elfman would pay nearly a billion dollars and be completely innocent as he claims.  My intuition is it is probably something in the middle like he probably did something inappropriate while under the influence, not that that excuses him, but might mean it isn't something in character and he might truly have no recollection yet did something very inappropriate too.  Clearly, it's a male dominated industry and there are very few protections in place (there is no corporate HR to complain to for example).  In my experiences, there have been near fist fights and blows during work sometimes between boss and staff and this happened to men and women.  Lots of derogatory talk (they might tell you to go jack off for a bit in a room full of mixed audiences if they need to chat privately), naked pictures or porn sitting openly around, stuff like that.  This was way before #METOO and I'll assume they've cleaned up their act quite a lot but the point is can be a generally abusive environment and sometimes that abusiveness is emotional, physical, sexual, or substance too and the lines can be blurry. 

I agree with you that it's a bad situation either way and I haven't fully formulated my thoughts on the topic as this is a tricky and loaded topic.  Some general thoughts I have though is the victim pretty much hates men.  She's in a music composer forum I'm in and is almost always aggressive towards any opinion that doesn't align with her points as being example of patriarchy and demonstrating further examples of industry wide abuse towards women.  The truth is this very same thing has happened to almost everyone in the industry, not just women.  On the other side, it is very, very hard to imagine any scenario where Elfman would pay nearly a billion dollars and be completely innocent as he claims.  My intuition is it is probably something in the middle like he probably did something inappropriate while under the influence, not that that excuses him, but might mean it isn't something in character and he might truly have no recollection yet did something very inappropriate too.  Clearly, it's a male dominated industry and there are very few protections in place (there is no corporate HR to complain to for example).  In my experiences, there have been near fist fights and blows during work sometimes between boss and staff and this happened to men and women.  Lots of derogatory talk (they might tell you to go jack off for a bit in a room full of mixed audiences if they need to chat privately), naked pictures or porn sitting openly around, stuff like that.  This was way before #METOO and I'll assume they've cleaned up their act quite a lot but the point is can be a generally abusive environment and sometimes that abusiveness is emotional, physical, sexual, or substance too and the lines can be blurry. 

It's a nicely curated traversal.  I heard it on NPR and thought "what the!@?@?!  But that's Falstaft!"  Great job! 

Thanks so much @Jay, that means a lot to me! I do hope this article will, in some small way, make a case for a more respectful treatment of symphonic film scoring. Judging from the comments, I think audiences are eager for a return.
 
The NPR segment I did was with Think! and should be streamable here: https://www.npr.org/podcasts/478859728/think. We cover some of the same ideas from the NYT article but also touch on Williams's career more generally (including Daddy-O!). 

Yes, welcome and this is a favorite topic of many of us here.  Basically, how did he know to do that thing he did.  This particular instance is a very famous "spacey" example and is a space cliche (time honored tradition).  He's immediately setting the location of distant, mysterious location using musical tropes of polytonality just like others did before every time they wanted to evoke the same thing.  The lesson here is that JW didn't invent this but studied this.  Many other works do this exact same thing as Loert points out.  Holst's Planets which you absolutely must study but also Vaughan Williams Sinfonia Antarctica which similarly referenced this vernacular.  Major up high and minor a half step above down below is suggestive of mysteries expansiveness.  In Holst, Neptune uses E minor in the trumpets and G# major in the trombones.  This works because it's tonally unsettling.  You have E, G, B, G#, C, D# (everything's a half step off) this minor second is unsettling but separated in tonal space just feels otherworldly.  We can even dive in to this deeper by showing that dissonances separated are more pleasing.  Of course, JW knew this.  He wasn't looking for harshness but for ambiguity...setting the stage most succinctly.  Every great artist looks to say the most with the least words.  JW did so musically in the example you are asking about. 

Yes, welcome and this is a favorite topic of many of us here.  Basically, how did he know to do that thing he did.  This particular instance is a very famous "spacey" example and is a space cliche (time honored tradition).  He's immediately setting the location of distant, mysterious location using musical tropes of polytonality just like others did before every time they wanted to evoke the same thing.  The lesson here is that JW didn't invent this but studied this.  Many other works do this exact same thing as Loert points out.  Holst's Planets which you absolutely must study but also Vaughan Williams Sinfonia Antarctica which similarly referenced this vernacular.  Major up high and minor a half step above down below is suggestive of mysteries expansiveness.  In Holst, Neptune uses E minor in the trumpets and G# major in the trombones.  This works because it's tonally unsettling.  You have E, G, B, G#, C, D# (everything's a half step off) this minor second is unsettling but separated in tonal space just feels otherworldly.  We can even dive in to this deeper by showing that dissonances separated are more pleasing.  Of course, JW knew this.  He wasn't looking for harshness but for ambiguity...setting the stage most succinctly.  Every great artist looks to say the most with the least words.  JW did so musically in the example you are asking about. 

Yes, welcome and this is a favorite topic of many of us here.  Basically, how did he know to do that thing he did.  This particular instance is a very famous "spacey" example and is a space cliche (time honored tradition).  He's immediately setting the location of distant, mysterious location using musical tropes of polytonality just like others did before every time they wanted to evoke the same thing.  The lesson here is that JW didn't invent this but studied this.  Many other works do this exact same thing as Loert points out.  Holst's Planets which you absolutely must study but also Vaughan Williams Sinfonia Antarctica which similarly referenced this vernacular.  Major up high and minor a half step above down below is suggestive of mysteries expansiveness.  In Holst, Neptune uses E minor in the trumpets and G# major in the trombones.  This works because it's tonally unsettling.  You have E, G, B, G#, C, D# (everything's a half step off) this minor second is unsettling but separated in tonal space just feels otherworldly.  We can even dive in to this deeper by showing that dissonances separated are more pleasing.  Of course, JW knew this.  He wasn't looking for harshness but for ambiguity...setting the stage most succinctly.  Every great artist looks to say the most with the least words.  JW did so musically in the example you are asking about. 

Yes, welcome and this is a favorite topic of many of us here.  Basically, how did he know to do that thing he did.  This particular instance is a very famous "spacey" example and is a space cliche (time honored tradition).  He's immediately setting the location of distant, mysterious location using musical tropes of polytonality just like others did before every time they wanted to evoke the same thing.  The lesson here is that JW didn't invent this but studied this.  Many other works do this exact same thing as Loert points out.  Holst's Planets which you absolutely must study but also Vaughan Williams Sinfonia Antarctica which similarly referenced this vernacular.  Major up high and minor a half step above down below is suggestive of mysteries expansiveness.  In Holst, Neptune uses E minor in the trumpets and G# major in the trombones.  This works because it's tonally unsettling.  You have E, G, B, G#, C, D# (everything's a half step off) this minor second is unsettling but separated in tonal space just feels otherworldly.  We can even dive in to this deeper by showing that dissonances separated are more pleasing.  Of course, JW knew this.  He wasn't looking for harshness but for ambiguity...setting the stage most succinctly.  Every great artist looks to say the most with the least words.  JW did so musically in the example you are asking about. 

Yes, welcome and this is a favorite topic of many of us here.  Basically, how did he know to do that thing he did.  This particular instance is a very famous "spacey" example and is a space cliche (time honored tradition).  He's immediately setting the location of distant, mysterious location using musical tropes of polytonality just like others did before every time they wanted to evoke the same thing.  The lesson here is that JW didn't invent this but studied this.  Many other works do this exact same thing as Loert points out.  Holst's Planets which you absolutely must study but also Vaughan Williams Sinfonia Antarctica which similarly referenced this vernacular.  Major up high and minor a half step above down below is suggestive of mysteries expansiveness.  In Holst, Neptune uses E minor in the trumpets and G# major in the trombones.  This works because it's tonally unsettling.  You have E, G, B, G#, C, D# (everything's a half step off) this minor second is unsettling but separated in tonal space just feels otherworldly.  We can even dive in to this deeper by showing that dissonances separated are more pleasing.  Of course, JW knew this.  He wasn't looking for harshness but for ambiguity...setting the stage most succinctly.  Every great artist looks to say the most with the least words.  JW did so musically in the example you are asking about. 

Yes, welcome and this is a favorite topic of many of us here.  Basically, how did he know to do that thing he did.  This particular instance is a very famous "spacey" example and is a space cliche (time honored tradition).  He's immediately setting the location of distant, mysterious location using musical tropes of polytonality just like others did before every time they wanted to evoke the same thing.  The lesson here is that JW didn't invent this but studied this.  Many other works do this exact same thing as Loert points out.  Holst's Planets which you absolutely must study but also Vaughan Williams Sinfonia Antarctica which similarly referenced this vernacular.  Major up high and minor a half step above down below is suggestive of mysteries expansiveness.  In Holst, Neptune uses E minor in the trumpets and G# major in the trombones.  This works because it's tonally unsettling.  You have E, G, B, G#, C, D# (everything's a half step off) this minor second is unsettling but separated in tonal space just feels otherworldly.  We can even dive in to this deeper by showing that dissonances separated are more pleasing.  Of course, JW knew this.  He wasn't looking for harshness but for ambiguity...setting the stage most succinctly.  Every great artist looks to say the most with the least words.  JW did so musically in the example you are asking about. 

Yes, welcome and this is a favorite topic of many of us here.  Basically, how did he know to do that thing he did.  This particular instance is a very famous "spacey" example and is a space cliche (time honored tradition).  He's immediately setting the location of distant, mysterious location using musical tropes of polytonality just like others did before every time they wanted to evoke the same thing.  The lesson here is that JW didn't invent this but studied this.  Many other works do this exact same thing as Loert points out.  Holst's Planets which you absolutely must study but also Vaughan Williams Sinfonia Antarctica which similarly referenced this vernacular.  Major up high and minor a half step above down below is suggestive of mysteries expansiveness.  In Holst, Neptune uses E minor in the trumpets and G# major in the trombones.  This works because it's tonally unsettling.  You have E, G, B, G#, C, D# (everything's a half step off) this minor second is unsettling but separated in tonal space just feels otherworldly.  We can even dive in to this deeper by showing that dissonances separated are more pleasing.  Of course, JW knew this.  He wasn't looking for harshness but for ambiguity...setting the stage most succinctly.  Every great artist looks to say the most with the least words.  JW did so musically in the example you are asking about. 

Yes, welcome and this is a favorite topic of many of us here.  Basically, how did he know to do that thing he did.  This particular instance is a very famous "spacey" example and is a space cliche (time honored tradition).  He's immediately setting the location of distant, mysterious location using musical tropes of polytonality just like others did before every time they wanted to evoke the same thing.  The lesson here is that JW didn't invent this but studied this.  Many other works do this exact same thing as Loert points out.  Holst's Planets which you absolutely must study but also Vaughan Williams Sinfonia Antarctica which similarly referenced this vernacular.  Major up high and minor a half step above down below is suggestive of mysteries expansiveness.  In Holst, Neptune uses E minor in the trumpets and G# major in the trombones.  This works because it's tonally unsettling.  You have E, G, B, G#, C, D# (everything's a half step off) this minor second is unsettling but separated in tonal space just feels otherworldly.  We can even dive in to this deeper by showing that dissonances separated are more pleasing.  Of course, JW knew this.  He wasn't looking for harshness but for ambiguity...setting the stage most succinctly.  Every great artist looks to say the most with the least words.  JW did so musically in the example you are asking about. 

Remember that John Williams used to be a jazz musician. (Read up on jazz harmony, I am sure it will blow your mind )
 
P.S. Welcome to the forums!
 
EDIT: I should also say that the Neptune movement from Holst's "The Planets" uses harmony in a very similar way, and that was likely an inspiration for the specific segment you mentioned.
 
For example, measure 3 here:
 

 
That's a G# minor chord (piano 2) over an A minor chord (piano 1), which has a very similar relationship to the C Major over Db Major chord in your example.
In the Holst example, one can explain the "clash" by saying that the G# minor chord is acting as a suspension. But what someone like John Williams would do is take that clash and make it a sonority of its own (and indeed, Holst does the same thing later in the piece).

I once hung out right next to him!  It was a rehearsal/pre-run of Cirque de Soleil's Iris a few years back.  I was invited to the dress rehearsal so experiencing the entire production in an empty theater.  My friend, who invited me, walked up to this man just standing in the empty performance hall and introduced me to an ordinary looking man he called Danny Elfman.  It was so unexpected.  I wouldn't have recognized him if not introduced!  It was surreal and mind blowing but mostly after the fact when I realized...holy shit, that was Danny Elfman I just met!  Otherwise, I probably would have walked right past him.  The most memorable thing was he seemed very nervous.  His mind was elsewhere and he was very consumed about all the musical details of the high profile production such as the balance between electronics and amplified performers who were surrounding the stage.  I stood next to him alone and he was completely consumed by the production issues.  He was friendly, professional and kind, just deeply preoccupied.