karelm

MG had an impossible task and I thought the music was serviceable but not particularly memorable.  I do have problems with MG's spotting.  One thing I didn't like is the music came in before Jyn's rescue telegraphing what was about to happen.  Sometimes the music rhythm didn't quite match the seen or dramatic rhythm the way JW would nail.  I didn't understand the use of some themes like the force theme where the characters are mobilizing.  I get that it is one of the great SW themes but it had no reason to be there.  I think it didn't really make sense to use the Force Theme at all in the film except perhaps subtly when Obi Wan is mentioned by Bail Organa and there it wasn't used at all.  I would have liked to have more extended harmonies but that would probably come across as mimicking JW.  It still would have been nice to have a few big SW chords.  In short, I wasn't disappointed or surprised by the gap between MG and JW in all aspects of music and story.

Saw the movie last night and really enjoyed it.  I thought the last act was excellent and especially enjoyed that intense last minute (from vader through to the end credit). I wonder how they got the voices of CGI Leia and Tarkin.  The fan service worked for me including some of the SW secondary characters and the CGI cast.  I liked how slowly it took Jyn to come around to the rebel and also how undisciplined the rebellion felt in act 2, like it was barely hanging together until the act 3 heroics.  Very enjoyable movie and a very good entry to the movie series.  Made me want to see A New Hope right away.

MG had an impossible task and I thought the music was serviceable but not particularly memorable.  I do have problems with MG's spotting.  One thing I didn't like is the music came in before Jyn's rescue telegraphing what was about to happen.  Sometimes the music rhythm didn't quite match the seen or dramatic rhythm the way JW would nail.  I didn't understand the use of some themes like the force theme where the characters are mobilizing.  I get that it is one of the great SW themes but it had no reason to be there.  I think it didn't really make sense to use the Force Theme at all in the film except perhaps subtly when Obi Wan is mentioned by Bail Organa and there it wasn't used at all.  I would have liked to have more extended harmonies but that would probably come across as mimicking JW.  It still would have been nice to have a few big SW chords.  In short, I wasn't disappointed or surprised by the gap between MG and JW in all aspects of music and story.

MG had an impossible task and I thought the music was serviceable but not particularly memorable.  I do have problems with MG's spotting.  One thing I didn't like is the music came in before Jyn's rescue telegraphing what was about to happen.  Sometimes the music rhythm didn't quite match the seen or dramatic rhythm the way JW would nail.  I didn't understand the use of some themes like the force theme where the characters are mobilizing.  I get that it is one of the great SW themes but it had no reason to be there.  I think it didn't really make sense to use the Force Theme at all in the film except perhaps subtly when Obi Wan is mentioned by Bail Organa and there it wasn't used at all.  I would have liked to have more extended harmonies but that would probably come across as mimicking JW.  It still would have been nice to have a few big SW chords.  In short, I wasn't disappointed or surprised by the gap between MG and JW in all aspects of music and story.

As for me, I would want my tombstone to have a motion sensor device that triggers "the miracle of the ark". That way when my ghost escapes the coffin, I will be accompanied with a musically appropriate theme.

As for me, I would want my tombstone to have a motion sensor device that triggers "the miracle of the ark". That way when my ghost escapes the coffin, I will be accompanied with a musically appropriate theme.

You should think of it somewhat differently.  Technically orchestration is a specific job but with the intent to be a good service to your composer/client, you might have to do other jobs as well such as score prep (part creation), arranging, and sometimes ghosting (and all of it with a positive attitude - you'll need to find other avenues to vent).  Each professional needs to know where they draw the line of requiring an additional fee and valuing their own self worth.  Those who consider themselves irreplaceable and act live divas are usually not called back.  So there is an art to how and when you push for more respect, recognition, payments, official credits, cue sheet credits, etc.  These entrepreneurial skills are not taught to most musicians so there is a steep learning curve based mostly from mistakes and failures, mentors, and advice from trusted colleagues. 
 
Conrad's story is not so unusual.  I know one situation where the hired composer never heard the music he was supposed to have written until the recording sessions.  That is a far extreme and very unusual but it happens.  I do not blame the ghosts, arrangers, and orchestrators.  They were trying their best to salvage a very tough business situation for their client who shall remain nameless.  Most composers fall in to a general category of proficient, perhaps not experts nor specialists, they give credit where credit is due, and very grateful for the services of a skilled orchestrator and musical partner.  Orchestration is a craft and good orchestrators are nuanced and quite fond of their specialty.  If you are also a pro at score prep and arranging those are added bonuses that means you can command a higher fee.  Technological skills that you might lack would also add to your valued services.  If you are a diva and complain about it, word will get around and you'll be unemployable so will have to do even crappier gigs to make ends meet. 

Such an amazing man.  Don't forget that Chuck Yeager is still alive.  Another true pioneer.  He's the guy who first broke the sound barrier in 1947 when they thought it was impossible.

Very beautiful.  It reminds me of this gem from Vaughan Williams (here conducted by JW's mentor and fellow anglophile, Bernard Herrmann):
 

Hey, I like it.  Movie looks good and is getting great initial reviews.  Will have to catch it.  Music sounds appropriate for a SW film but clearly lacks JW's harmonic inventiveness.  I'm sure we'll get at least a few SW chords somewhere in the score but I'm glad MG isn't trying to be JW but is just trying to inhabit that soundspace. 

You should think of it somewhat differently.  Technically orchestration is a specific job but with the intent to be a good service to your composer/client, you might have to do other jobs as well such as score prep (part creation), arranging, and sometimes ghosting (and all of it with a positive attitude - you'll need to find other avenues to vent).  Each professional needs to know where they draw the line of requiring an additional fee and valuing their own self worth.  Those who consider themselves irreplaceable and act live divas are usually not called back.  So there is an art to how and when you push for more respect, recognition, payments, official credits, cue sheet credits, etc.  These entrepreneurial skills are not taught to most musicians so there is a steep learning curve based mostly from mistakes and failures, mentors, and advice from trusted colleagues. 
 
Conrad's story is not so unusual.  I know one situation where the hired composer never heard the music he was supposed to have written until the recording sessions.  That is a far extreme and very unusual but it happens.  I do not blame the ghosts, arrangers, and orchestrators.  They were trying their best to salvage a very tough business situation for their client who shall remain nameless.  Most composers fall in to a general category of proficient, perhaps not experts nor specialists, they give credit where credit is due, and very grateful for the services of a skilled orchestrator and musical partner.  Orchestration is a craft and good orchestrators are nuanced and quite fond of their specialty.  If you are also a pro at score prep and arranging those are added bonuses that means you can command a higher fee.  Technological skills that you might lack would also add to your valued services.  If you are a diva and complain about it, word will get around and you'll be unemployable so will have to do even crappier gigs to make ends meet. 

One other reason why composers might enlist orchestrators (and even orchestrators might hire orchestrators if they are composing their own film) is simply the time pressures and demands of the job.  Most high profile jobs have very high pressure and tight schedules.  Let's say the composer has to compose and complete two minutes of finished orchestral score per day to make their scoring date.  Then something they've already done has to be revised to fit a new film edit.  For example, if there is a late re-edit or re-shoot after the scoring is done, they might now have to score 3.5 minutes per day to make their scoring date and the pressure can get very intense.  They might also have written 3 or 4 (sometimes many more) versions of the same cue and it just isn't getting approved.  You are now up to 4 to 5 minutes needed per day.  This is where someone who can take a sketch and reliably flush it out to top standards is invaluable and becomes a trusted ally. As grey, err...Prerecorded Briefing mentioned, it can range from taking what was given to you and flushing it out for full orchestra to adding or changing musical material.  It is not unusual for a composer to have serious chops but need a ghost or someone to embellish their idea just to make their schedule.  For example, the composer received late changes requested to their cue but they don't have time for it because maybe they are in the session.  So you could be asked to arrange the idea to fit the directors latest notes while preparing the orchestration.  The orchestrator is in effect a service to the composer and the composers success on their project is your success.

Very beautiful.  It reminds me of this gem from Vaughan Williams (here conducted by JW's mentor and fellow anglophile, Bernard Herrmann):
 

In 1941, RVW was a big deal and putting his name on your marquee was a badge of honor.  Oh how times have changed.  Definitely get this series...gorgeous and dramatic music very well performed and recorded:
 
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN 10007
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN 10244
 
How could you not like a cue like this called "Doom"?!
 

Very beautiful.  It reminds me of this gem from Vaughan Williams (here conducted by JW's mentor and fellow anglophile, Bernard Herrmann):
 

One other reason why composers might enlist orchestrators (and even orchestrators might hire orchestrators if they are composing their own film) is simply the time pressures and demands of the job.  Most high profile jobs have very high pressure and tight schedules.  Let's say the composer has to compose and complete two minutes of finished orchestral score per day to make their scoring date.  Then something they've already done has to be revised to fit a new film edit.  For example, if there is a late re-edit or re-shoot after the scoring is done, they might now have to score 3.5 minutes per day to make their scoring date and the pressure can get very intense.  They might also have written 3 or 4 (sometimes many more) versions of the same cue and it just isn't getting approved.  You are now up to 4 to 5 minutes needed per day.  This is where someone who can take a sketch and reliably flush it out to top standards is invaluable and becomes a trusted ally. As grey, err...Prerecorded Briefing mentioned, it can range from taking what was given to you and flushing it out for full orchestra to adding or changing musical material.  It is not unusual for a composer to have serious chops but need a ghost or someone to embellish their idea just to make their schedule.  For example, the composer received late changes requested to their cue but they don't have time for it because maybe they are in the session.  So you could be asked to arrange the idea to fit the directors latest notes while preparing the orchestration.  The orchestrator is in effect a service to the composer and the composers success on their project is your success.

Very beautiful.  It reminds me of this gem from Vaughan Williams (here conducted by JW's mentor and fellow anglophile, Bernard Herrmann):
 

Very beautiful.  It reminds me of this gem from Vaughan Williams (here conducted by JW's mentor and fellow anglophile, Bernard Herrmann):
 

It's not terribly close, but the harp accompaniment reminds me a little of this piano etude:
 
 
I too would quite like to know where he might have gotten the texture and harmony from. It sounds quite jazzy to me.

#all miss John Glenn #
He had the right stuff.
R.I.P.
 
 
 
"Loan me a stick of gum, will ya? I'll pay you back, later".
"Fair enough".

Such an amazing man.  Don't forget that Chuck Yeager is still alive.  Another true pioneer.  He's the guy who first broke the sound barrier in 1947 when they thought it was impossible.

The man is going to be 85 years old in two months.  Hasn't he earned the right to sleep in his own bed after a long day of work?  By that of course I mean they should ship his bed to London while he records with the LSO.

Oh dear god, not this again...

The man is going to be 85 years old in two months.  Hasn't he earned the right to sleep in his own bed after a long day of work?  By that of course I mean they should ship his bed to London while he records with the LSO.

The man is going to be 85 years old in two months.  Hasn't he earned the right to sleep in his own bed after a long day of work?  By that of course I mean they should ship his bed to London while he records with the LSO.