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karelm

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  1. Like
    karelm got a reaction from Michael G. in New Williams Concert Arrangement: "Adagio from The Force Awakens" premiering August 7th 2018 at Tanglewood [UPDATE: World premiere was March 2018 in Mexico City - video on page 1]   
    That's cool.  So there is now an Adagio and the pre-existing fugato from The Force Awakens (March of the Resistance).  If this trend continues, Ep. IX soundtrack will be:
     
    1. Overture
    2. Passacaglia and fugue
    3. Theme and Variations
    4. Rondo
    5. Scherzo Trio
    6. Sonata Allegro
    ...
  2. Like
    karelm reacted to Loert in The Classical Music Recommendation Thread   
    @Marian Schedenig Wow, that Sunrise really does sound stunning. I'm going to have to listen to the whole thing later tonight! Thanks for posting.
    EDIT: Finally a convincing wind machine LOL
     
    ---
     
    Now this is a cello concerto:
     
     
    On a side note, the middle movement sounds uncannily like Williams...
  3. Like
    karelm reacted to Yavar Moradi in Michael Giacchino & Nami Melumad's STAR TREK: PRODIGY (2021)   
    Yes, they did. On TNG it was much more common during the first couple seasons before the music got Bermanized (he didn't like recognizable themes). You can go through FSM's online liner notes for their amazing Ron Jones box here, and look at the tracklistings episode by episode to see just how often he used the Goldsmith theme -- just going through his season 1 scores I see he used it in eight out of eleven episode scores he wrote (often more than once in a single episode score):
    https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/notes/box05_disc01.html
    For season two he used the theme in six out of ten episode scores he wrote:
    https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/notes/box05_disc05.html
     
    On Voyager I think the Goldsmith theme was incorporated less often into the episode underscore (alas!) but it was definitely used in the pilot score at the very least -- Track 35 of Disc 4 on this set is one of the most prominent examples (inexplicably omitted from the original GNP Crescendo album of the "Caretaker" score):
    https://lalalandrecords.com/star-trek-50th-anniversary-collection-musical-rarities-from-across-the-star-trek-universe-limited-edtion-4-cd-set/
    I see a couple end-of-episode cues on their Voyager Vol. 1 set use it too:
    https://lalalandrecords.com/star-trek-voyager-collection-limited-edition-4-cd-set/
     
    Yavar
  4. Like
    karelm got a reaction from Yavar Moradi in Star Trek is better than everything   
    Though this has nothing directly to do with Star Trek, Some of you might enjoy this 1973 and 1978 clip of Patrick Stewart talking about Shakespeare.  It's hard to imagine that the 73 clip places him just 4 years after TOS which feels so ancient. 
     
     
  5. Like
    karelm reacted to Trumpeteer in John Williams Returns to the Hollywood Bowl, Sept. 3, 4 & 5, 2021   
    I was at the Sunday concert and it was a lot of fun. Of course, since I have finished my podcast, I knew there would be no new film music for me to hear, but that was fine. The Overture to the Oscars was new, I think? I have to look it up, but it sounded like the music that opened the 2002 Oscars when he was co-musical director. 
     
    I enjoyed seeing JW looking so lively at 89 years old. I spoke with a woman after the show, and after I told her John Williams was five months away from turning 90, she said, "He looked like he was in his 70s!"
     
    But the highlight of the show was meeting Eduardo Victoria, who was a cohost on my podcast for the "War of the Worlds" episode. It was the first time meeting one of my cohosts in person, and we had a wonderful pre-show conversation.
     
     

  6. Like
    karelm reacted to Sandor in Your stories of how you met John Williams   
    I've told this story before, but back in the Summer of 2010 my wife and I spent several weeks in the US. We started of in San Francisco, went to LA, Vegas, the Grand Canyon and we drove as much as we could of the historic Route 66 to Chicago. From there we flew to Florida and after a week or so took a plane to New York. Just before heading out to Washington DC, we -on August 3- drove to Tanglewood for my first -and only- John Williams concert. 
     

     
    Now I knew it is quite rare to get an autograph at Tanglewood, let alone have the chance to share a few words with John Williams, so therefore I was very content with the prospect of 'just' seeing the maestro conduct. 
     
    Upon arrival, I got my first chance to see the program of the evening. To my slight disappointment, I saw that Williams would only conduct the second half of the concert and that Keith Lockhart would conduct until intermission. 
     
    Just before the concert started, my wife whispered: 'Isn't that John Williams?' I wanted to respond with something like: 'No, that is Keith Lockhart...', but I noticed she was pointing at someone in the audience.
     

     
    And there he was, sitting about 20 meters away from where we were seated: John Williams (can you spot him?) He wasn't backstage waiting for his moment to shine, no: he was sitting enjoying the concert like anyone else attending that day. 
     
    At the start of intermission, I expected Williams to make his way to the dressing room or whatever, but I noticed he stood up and amicably talked to some people around him. With my heart pounding I slowly approached John Williams and from there things start to get blurry. I know I got to shake his hand and he signed the program booklet I got at the entry point. I know John Williams was the one who suggested signing it on the upper left corner since there is would be most visible. And I know I said I came all the way from The Netherlands and he said: 'Oh, that's wonderful! Enjoy the rest of the concert my friend!'
     
    'My friend.' Wow.
     

     
    Williams conducted the rest of the program, but I was in a completely different world at that time. In a way, I still am. It was a true highlight in my life and a memory I will cherish forever. 
     

  7. Like
    karelm reacted to Marian Schedenig in The Official Bernard Herrmann Thread   
    It's not composed as a joke. It is of course written to overwhelm the singer unless she is very strong, but it's still well written. The Gerhardt recording with Te Kanawa is stunning.
  8. Like
    karelm reacted to AC1 in The Classical Music Recommendation Thread   
    Dark, gloomy and heavy. It's Heaven And Hell but then a la Goldenthal.
  9. Like
    karelm reacted to Disco Stu in The Classical Music Recommendation Thread   
    I think I've posted about Poulenc's Mass a few times over the last couple of years, but I really just never get enough.  It's become one of those pieces that is incredibly important to me, that I return to regularly for spiritual succor.  It's truly perfect from start to finish.
     
     
  10. Like
    karelm reacted to Pellaeon in Who do you think is most responsible for the musical sound of Star Trek?   
    Fred Steiner. His first two scores, “Charlie X” and “Mudd’s Women,” define the Star Trek sound.
  11. Like
    karelm reacted to Naïve Old Fart in Who do you think is most responsible for the musical sound of Star Trek?   
    I've been working my through the Star Trek universe, chronologically.
    While I can't make any particular comments about the music for TOS - except, of course, that a) I like it, and b) there seems to be a lot of repetition (heck, I even like the music for TAS) - when it comes to the films, TNG, DS9, and Voyager (I can't comment on Enterprise, and what I've heard from Picard, and Discovery is, frankly, not worth listening to), it's clear to me that Jerry's influence extends far, far beyond five films and a new theme.
    The series' composers' attempts to sound like Jerry, or JW, or even Horner sometimes, are at once, flattering, fanciful, and jarring.
    Ron Jones seems to have the most original voice of the composers, but even this gets a little tiresome, after a while.
    I have no wish to criticise these guys out of hand, and I'm sure that it's not their fault. I'm sure some director or other said "We need a bit of Jerry here, a touch of JW there, and a sliver of Horner, somewhere else", and they do their best to interpret these requests, while trying to retain their own musical identity.
    It's not easy.
    They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and, if that is so, then it's a pleasure to listen to their scores and to pick out bits of personal favourites (there's a scene near the end of the TNG episode "Disaster", which contains - purposefully, I'm sure - a reference to "Planting The Charges", and I've lost count of quotes from Star Trek: V).
    I don't begrudge these composers wanting to sound like other composers, especially those who are an influence on their work. If I composed music, I'd want it to sound like my musical mentors.
    When it comes to the STU, however, Jerry's music and his spirit reigns supreme. He is to Star Trek what JW is to Star Wars, and Elfman is to Batman: the source, from which all other music flows.
     
     
  12. Like
    karelm reacted to Nick1Ø66 in Who do you think is most responsible for the musical sound of Star Trek?   
    Mostly Courage, partially Goldsmith.
     
    There's a reason why, when the Abrams movies and Kurtzman abominations want to evoke nostalgia, they always go straight for the TOS themes.
     
    But Goldsmith's TMP score is still strongly associated with the franchise. It's that good, incredibly influential on the TNG-era music, and easily the best of the film scores.
     
     
  13. Like
    karelm reacted to GerateWohl in Who do you think is most responsible for the musical sound of Star Trek?   
    I think, that's not completely wrong. I think, Star Wars had a lot of influence on Jerry Goldsmith's decision to chose a march as the main title theme for Star Trek The Motion Picture. Like for so many other movies at that time.
  14. Like
    karelm reacted to Tom Guernsey in Who do you think is most responsible for the musical sound of Star Trek?   
    There’s a really good FSM podcast (shame they still don’t do then as they are all really interesting) about this from the time of the first Giacchino score (so 2009) that goes through the sounds of the various shows and movies.
     
    Their view was that Gerald Fried more strongly defined the tone of the original series with such scores as Amok Time etc which had a heavier sound than Courage (notwithstanding that he defined the show in other ways with the opening fanfare and theme). For the movies both Jerry and James Horner were influenced by Holst and other romantic era composers, not necessarily in terms of thematic material but more the harmonic tropes that define operatic space music. They noted that Eidelman’s thematic material for The Undiscovered Country was based on intervals of a fourth like the original Courage theme. There wasn’t so much on the later movie scores (aside from the lovely First Contact theme) or the tv music. The conclusion on Giacchino’s music was that it was very much standard noisy blockbuster scoring to cut through noisy sound effects and action sequences. 
  15. Like
  16. Like
    karelm reacted to Thor in Who do you think is most responsible for the musical sound of Star Trek?   
    Part Courage, part Goldsmith.
  17. Like
    karelm reacted to Tallguy in Who do you think is most responsible for the musical sound of Star Trek?   
    Steiner. I'm trying to think of an analogy, but Courage created the framework (and some damn good scores) but Steiner really filled it in.
     
    Then you have to ask, who had more of an effect on Trek music? Justman or Berman? I tend to ignore most of the music post TOS on TV.
     
    The TNG composers copied both Goldsmith and Horner.
     
    I'm sticking with Steiner, but it's certainly not a definitive answer.
  18. Like
    karelm reacted to NL197 in Who do you think is most responsible for the musical sound of Star Trek?   
    I'd want to say Courage, really because of the Star Trek fanfare which is like the opening of the 007 theme. Those few notes are a signature. 

    It hasn't really provided the entirety of the franchise with an established sound, though. 

    For numbers it's easily Dennis McCarthy, but when I think Star Trek music in general, I associate it with Goldsmith more than anyone else but I'm not familiar with the original series music to form any opinion on that aspect of the franchise. 

     
  19. Angry
  20. Like
    karelm got a reaction from Cerebral Cortex in James Horner's STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN (1982) - NEW! 2021 2-CD La-La Land Records Remastered Edition   
    I got my copy today and am listening now.  Such a fantastic score.  It takes me back to being a very young boy seeing this in theaters and being introduced to Horner but also being amazed at how very different it was from Goldsmith's score but fantastic in its own way.  I wonder why they didn't want him to reuse any of Goldsmith's fantastic work which I felt was odd at the time.  I hadn't yet seen the "Space Seed" original but felt it did a great job of making it clear to me as a kid without knowing the original tv episode.  I was deeply heartbroken at the death of spock sequence though I hadn't fully grasped the depth of their relationship.  At the time, cable tv and HBO didn't yet even exist so we had very limited exposure to this material.  I don't even think VHS existed yet (or my family didn't have it) so I only knew of Star Trek and Twilight Zone from CBS tv Saturday night episodes which aired very late...maybe 10:30 pm till midnight and as a young kid, mom wouldn't let me stay up to watch.  I eventually waited till she was asleep so I could watch. 
     
    I'm actually surprised the sound isn't better.  It's great to relive these cues but for a "remastered edition", I think these should sound better.  I prefer the sound on the previous "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (expanded soundtrack)".  Compare to earlier Star Wars which stands up far better sound wise.  According to the booklet, this was recorded at Warner Brothers which I know well and have recorded at myself (see picture) but the sound stage is close mic'ed and tight.  This was the early days of digital but analog seemed to record a great acoustic sound more accurately. I assume audio engineers weren't looking for accuracy at that time but what would sound best in a large theater since theatrical experience was our only experience up to that point.   Warner Brothers (Eastwood Scoring Stage) is on the smaller size and doesn't do great with larger orchestras (over 80 players) as you start getting players stacked up and no real room for the sound to travel or isolate the mic from louder instruments.  In contrast, Sony/MGM/Streisand could accommodate 120 piece orchestra but would probably suffer with chamber or intimate sounds.  These are generalizations and lots of other factors impact this as well such as who is the recording engineer, their approach, the style of the music, etc.
     
    I was also surprised by some nods to Bernard Herrmann I hadn't previously noticed until this release.  He cast a long shadow on the genre and those composers coming up like Horner, Elfman, etc.  I'm specifically referring to the slow passages with muted brass recalling "Day the Earth Stood Still" which must have musically influenced both Goldsmith and Horner.

  21. Like
    karelm got a reaction from Tom Guernsey in James Horner's STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN (1982) - NEW! 2021 2-CD La-La Land Records Remastered Edition   
    I got my copy today and am listening now.  Such a fantastic score.  It takes me back to being a very young boy seeing this in theaters and being introduced to Horner but also being amazed at how very different it was from Goldsmith's score but fantastic in its own way.  I wonder why they didn't want him to reuse any of Goldsmith's fantastic work which I felt was odd at the time.  I hadn't yet seen the "Space Seed" original but felt it did a great job of making it clear to me as a kid without knowing the original tv episode.  I was deeply heartbroken at the death of spock sequence though I hadn't fully grasped the depth of their relationship.  At the time, cable tv and HBO didn't yet even exist so we had very limited exposure to this material.  I don't even think VHS existed yet (or my family didn't have it) so I only knew of Star Trek and Twilight Zone from CBS tv Saturday night episodes which aired very late...maybe 10:30 pm till midnight and as a young kid, mom wouldn't let me stay up to watch.  I eventually waited till she was asleep so I could watch. 
     
    I'm actually surprised the sound isn't better.  It's great to relive these cues but for a "remastered edition", I think these should sound better.  I prefer the sound on the previous "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (expanded soundtrack)".  Compare to earlier Star Wars which stands up far better sound wise.  According to the booklet, this was recorded at Warner Brothers which I know well and have recorded at myself (see picture) but the sound stage is close mic'ed and tight.  This was the early days of digital but analog seemed to record a great acoustic sound more accurately. I assume audio engineers weren't looking for accuracy at that time but what would sound best in a large theater since theatrical experience was our only experience up to that point.   Warner Brothers (Eastwood Scoring Stage) is on the smaller size and doesn't do great with larger orchestras (over 80 players) as you start getting players stacked up and no real room for the sound to travel or isolate the mic from louder instruments.  In contrast, Sony/MGM/Streisand could accommodate 120 piece orchestra but would probably suffer with chamber or intimate sounds.  These are generalizations and lots of other factors impact this as well such as who is the recording engineer, their approach, the style of the music, etc.
     
    I was also surprised by some nods to Bernard Herrmann I hadn't previously noticed until this release.  He cast a long shadow on the genre and those composers coming up like Horner, Elfman, etc.  I'm specifically referring to the slow passages with muted brass recalling "Day the Earth Stood Still" which must have musically influenced both Goldsmith and Horner.

  22. Like
    karelm got a reaction from Smeltington in James Horner's STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN (1982) - NEW! 2021 2-CD La-La Land Records Remastered Edition   
    I got my copy today and am listening now.  Such a fantastic score.  It takes me back to being a very young boy seeing this in theaters and being introduced to Horner but also being amazed at how very different it was from Goldsmith's score but fantastic in its own way.  I wonder why they didn't want him to reuse any of Goldsmith's fantastic work which I felt was odd at the time.  I hadn't yet seen the "Space Seed" original but felt it did a great job of making it clear to me as a kid without knowing the original tv episode.  I was deeply heartbroken at the death of spock sequence though I hadn't fully grasped the depth of their relationship.  At the time, cable tv and HBO didn't yet even exist so we had very limited exposure to this material.  I don't even think VHS existed yet (or my family didn't have it) so I only knew of Star Trek and Twilight Zone from CBS tv Saturday night episodes which aired very late...maybe 10:30 pm till midnight and as a young kid, mom wouldn't let me stay up to watch.  I eventually waited till she was asleep so I could watch. 
     
    I'm actually surprised the sound isn't better.  It's great to relive these cues but for a "remastered edition", I think these should sound better.  I prefer the sound on the previous "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (expanded soundtrack)".  Compare to earlier Star Wars which stands up far better sound wise.  According to the booklet, this was recorded at Warner Brothers which I know well and have recorded at myself (see picture) but the sound stage is close mic'ed and tight.  This was the early days of digital but analog seemed to record a great acoustic sound more accurately. I assume audio engineers weren't looking for accuracy at that time but what would sound best in a large theater since theatrical experience was our only experience up to that point.   Warner Brothers (Eastwood Scoring Stage) is on the smaller size and doesn't do great with larger orchestras (over 80 players) as you start getting players stacked up and no real room for the sound to travel or isolate the mic from louder instruments.  In contrast, Sony/MGM/Streisand could accommodate 120 piece orchestra but would probably suffer with chamber or intimate sounds.  These are generalizations and lots of other factors impact this as well such as who is the recording engineer, their approach, the style of the music, etc.
     
    I was also surprised by some nods to Bernard Herrmann I hadn't previously noticed until this release.  He cast a long shadow on the genre and those composers coming up like Horner, Elfman, etc.  I'm specifically referring to the slow passages with muted brass recalling "Day the Earth Stood Still" which must have musically influenced both Goldsmith and Horner.

  23. Like
    karelm got a reaction from Jay in James Horner's STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN (1982) - NEW! 2021 2-CD La-La Land Records Remastered Edition   
    I got my copy today and am listening now.  Such a fantastic score.  It takes me back to being a very young boy seeing this in theaters and being introduced to Horner but also being amazed at how very different it was from Goldsmith's score but fantastic in its own way.  I wonder why they didn't want him to reuse any of Goldsmith's fantastic work which I felt was odd at the time.  I hadn't yet seen the "Space Seed" original but felt it did a great job of making it clear to me as a kid without knowing the original tv episode.  I was deeply heartbroken at the death of spock sequence though I hadn't fully grasped the depth of their relationship.  At the time, cable tv and HBO didn't yet even exist so we had very limited exposure to this material.  I don't even think VHS existed yet (or my family didn't have it) so I only knew of Star Trek and Twilight Zone from CBS tv Saturday night episodes which aired very late...maybe 10:30 pm till midnight and as a young kid, mom wouldn't let me stay up to watch.  I eventually waited till she was asleep so I could watch. 
     
    I'm actually surprised the sound isn't better.  It's great to relive these cues but for a "remastered edition", I think these should sound better.  I prefer the sound on the previous "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (expanded soundtrack)".  Compare to earlier Star Wars which stands up far better sound wise.  According to the booklet, this was recorded at Warner Brothers which I know well and have recorded at myself (see picture) but the sound stage is close mic'ed and tight.  This was the early days of digital but analog seemed to record a great acoustic sound more accurately. I assume audio engineers weren't looking for accuracy at that time but what would sound best in a large theater since theatrical experience was our only experience up to that point.   Warner Brothers (Eastwood Scoring Stage) is on the smaller size and doesn't do great with larger orchestras (over 80 players) as you start getting players stacked up and no real room for the sound to travel or isolate the mic from louder instruments.  In contrast, Sony/MGM/Streisand could accommodate 120 piece orchestra but would probably suffer with chamber or intimate sounds.  These are generalizations and lots of other factors impact this as well such as who is the recording engineer, their approach, the style of the music, etc.
     
    I was also surprised by some nods to Bernard Herrmann I hadn't previously noticed until this release.  He cast a long shadow on the genre and those composers coming up like Horner, Elfman, etc.  I'm specifically referring to the slow passages with muted brass recalling "Day the Earth Stood Still" which must have musically influenced both Goldsmith and Horner.

  24. Like
    karelm reacted to Kühni in The Classical Music Recommendation Thread   
    Some choral Rachmaninov, anyone?
     
     
  25. Like
    karelm reacted to Loert in The Classical Music Recommendation Thread   
    A fine performance of a difficult piece:
     
     
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