Whill
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Posts posted by Whill
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Now, here's my own question: In Star Trek II, the promotional video for the Genesis device says that it reorganizes matter on a subatomic level into life-supporting matter of equal mass. In other words, it doesn't create any new matter, just shifts around what's there to make life feasible where it wasn't before.
So where did the Genesis planet come from, anyway? Khan's ship didn't just inflate to planet size. I suppose the "wave" could've expanded out of the region of the nebula and reached Regula 1, but in the FX shots it didn't look like much more than a planetoid, an oversized asteroid, hardly big enough to turn into a habitable world. And I'm nt sure I see how the edge of a wave detonated several thousand kilometers away could've made enough of an impact to have that sort of effect.
So what's the deal?
Yeah, I'll agree that the nebula had lots of gas matter that could be reorganized into a star and Genesis planet. In real life, nebualae are the building blocks of stars and planets.
I don't think the audience would buy it if McCoy and Kirk just turned up on Vulcan for Spock's Katra to be given a shiny new body/host. The existence of such a thing would either throw open more questions regarding Vulcan lore (do they have a factory line of clones in case they die?) or moral quandaries (i.e. if they had pulled out some poor guy to have his memories wiped and replaced with Spock's, which wouldn't have been satisfactory as he would have to look like Nimoy). I suppose it's possible the Katra Ritual could regenerate the body as well, I'm not sure, I guess it would have to. As for the issues with Spock's knowledge of the Katra, given that this is - to my knowledge - the one and only time we've seen a Vulcan go through it, it may not be open to some members of Vulcan society (for example the half-Romulan Saavik), and if he did have the key to immortality, it's not the kind of thing that he would want to tell Starfleet about, especially with how the Vulcans are about outsiders and Spock's initial defection to Starfleet in the first place.
No. I wasn't suggesting that Spock's katra be entered into someone else. I think you misunderstand Vulcan mysticism. Forget about ST:III for a moment. When all Vulcans are about to die, they put their katra into someone else if possible. Then what normally happens is that person goes to the Mt. Seleya temple on Vulcan and the usual ritual puts the katra into an katric ark: an artifact that can somehow store katras of dead Vulcans. Vulcans leaders have the privelige of going to the temple and mind-melding with arks posessing the souls of dead Vulcans to gain some of their wisdom.
That being said, with the discovery that McCoy posessed Spock's katra and no knowledge that Spock's body survived, they had no reason to go to Genesis and no hope of putting Spock's katra back into any living body. Spock's katra (through McCoy) told Kirk to take him to Vulcan. This was so Spock's katra could join the ranks of all the other dead Vulcans that were there (in katric form). That is the normal "afterlife" of Vulcans, which is all that Spock's katra expected. Spock's katra also didn't seem to know that his body had regenerated on Genesis.
The torpedo tube is not so much an issue. From reading the movie novelizations, I remember that Saavik was supposed to program Spock's tube for a trajectory that would make it burn up in Genesis's atmosphere, but there was still some background Genesis wave raditation putting the final touches on the planet's biosphere and at the last minute she programmed the tube to instead intercept the Genesis wave, so that the dead matter of Spock's body would be reorganized into new life. She thought it was a fitting way to destroy Spock's dead body, but she didn't tell anyone that she had done that. She succeeded in shooting spock's tube into the Genesis wave, but of course no one including Saavik expected the tube to soft-land on the planet, and I'm ok with that little detail going unexplained.
Oh, Kirk going to get Spock's body:
They sent the Casket there, and they were expecting to take Spock's corpse back to Vulcan, with Dr. McCoy so they could help both find peace.
But if Spock's body was supposed to go to Vulcan, then why was it launched into space at all? I still think if Vulcans have a burial or cremation ritual for dead Vulcan bodies, that someone should have known about Vulcan death culture on the Enterprise (like Kirk or Saavik), or Spock would have had a Will with final wishes. Afterall, Kirk knew that Mt. Seleya was on Vulcan. As I stated above, McCoy only needed to go to Vulcan to for both he and Spock's katra to find peace. The body of the deceased Vulcan is not required for that ritual, or they wouldn't have jettisoned it in the first place.
When they showed up with Spock's body still alive, instead of the normal everyday ritual of transmitting the katra from the person carrying it and to the katric temple (Vulcan afterlife), they had the option of performing the rare ritual of ages past where someone thought they were going to die but didn't, so the katra could be put back into the original body.
Star Trek III's chronology was shuffled around in post-production. The shooting script started with the Grissom arriving at Genesis (which is why it's the only sequence in the movie with an on-screen stardate). They find Spock's coffin and report back to Starfleet. That's how everyone knows that Spock is on Genesis. In the final edit, Kirk asks to go back to Genesis before the coffin is discovered!
Neil
Thanks for that info, Neil! That makes more sense than anything I have heard, except for one thing... Why did they change it?! It makes more sense for Kirk to discover McCoy had Spock's katra, prepare to take him to Vulcan so Spock's katra could achieve Vulcan afterlife, but then discover that Spock's body may have been regenerated on Genesis, so then they went there on a hope and a prayer that they could somehow restore Spock's katra to his body and bring Spock back to life. But being that it was dangerous territory near the Klingon Neutral Zone, they had to disobey orders and steal the Enterprise as portrayed in the final edit of the film to do so. Damn that would have made so much more sense. Why didn't they keep that? Why?
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For everyone who's interested, here's a complete cue list including the songs and source cues:
*01. Back to the Future (Overture) 8:19
02. Logo :23 (Unused Cue)
*03. "The Power of Love" 3:58 - Huey Lewis and the News
*04. "Time Bomb Town" 2:44 - Lindsey Buckingham
05. DeLorean Reveal 0:49
06. Einstein Disintegrated 1:25
07. ’85 Twin Pines Mall 4:45
08. Peabody Barn; Marty Ditches DeLorean 3:12
09. "Mister Sandman" 2:38 - The Four Aces
10. ’55 Town Square 1:20 (Plays During "Mister Sandman")
11. "The Ballad of Davey Crocket" 1:43 - Fess Parker
12. Lorraine’s Bedroom 0:49
13. Retrieve DeLorean 1:17
14. 1.21 Jigowatts 1:39
15. The Picture 1:08
16. Picture Fades 0:20
*17. "The Wallflower (Dance with Me Henry)" 2:44 - Etta James
18. Skateboard Chase 1:41
19. Marty’s Letter 1:21
*20. "Night Train" 2:17 - Marvin Berry and the Starlighters
21. "Pledging My Love" 2:28 - Johnny Ace
22. George to the Rescue – Pt. 1 0:53
23. Marvin Be-Bop 2:27 (Source Cue)
24. George to the Rescue – Pt. 2 2:37
*25. "Earth Angel (You Will Be Mine)" 3:01 - Marvin Berry and the Starlighters
26. Tension; The Kiss 1:35 (Plays During "Earth Angel (Will You Be Mine")
*27. "Johnny B. Goode" 3:05 - Marty McFly with the Starlighters
28. Goodnight Marty 1:31 (Source Cue)
29. It’s Been Educational; Clocktower 10:32
30. Helicopter 0:21
31. ’85 Lone Pine Mall 3:49
32. 4 x 4 0:43
*33. "Heaven Is One Step Away" 4:08 - Eric Clapton
34. Doc Returns 1:16
*35. "Back in Time 4:21" - Huey Lewis and the News
36. Back to the Future (End Credits) 3:18
*Available on the original soundtrack album
Cool! One of my all-time fave non-Williams movies and scores. It says on backorder but I just ordered it. Can't wait to get it.
I have all the songs and will probably make a version with the songs in the appropriate places. I'm not much for oldies or pop music, but these songs have somewhat grown on me from watching the movie so much. But if I listen to it and think the songs break up the flow of the score music, then I'll go back to just the score. I'll just have to try to see what I think.
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The Search For Spock is NOT a bad movie!
Oh good, big TSfS fans. I am a Star Trek fan, but a couple things don't make sense to me about TSfS, and no one so far can answer my questions. Stefan or John, maybe you can help me appreciate this movie more? I'm being serious. I want to enjoy this film. It connects TWoK and TVH, two classics in my book.
I buy that Spock's body was regenerated by the Genesis Wave. But what reason would Kirk and company on Earth have to go get Spock's body? They didn't know that Spock's body was alive on Genesis. They discovered that McCoy had Spock's katra, and why would they need Spock's dead body to transfer his katra to the katric ark or whatever on Vulcan? Why didn't Kirk just take McCoy strait to Vulcan? Why would Sarek or Spock's katra (can't remember which right now) be offended that they "left" Spock's body on Genesis? If the body was required for some ceremonial (yet illogical) purpose, then why did they just eject his dead body into space in a photon torpedo tube? Wouldn't Spock have a will with instructions for what Starfleet was supposed to do with his body if he died? If not, wouldn't Kirk know? Or wouldn't Saavik at least know about Vulcan customs dealing with death?
Everyone says plot holes, but I'm open to explainations. It does seem like they just needed to get Spock's katra reunited with his body and couldn't contrive any plot device to explain why Kirk took McCoy to Genesis in the first place. Please help me!
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Just because their level of amazingness is somewhat lower than that of their predecessors doesn't make them terrible or something. If the prequel scores were given the sort of treatment the OT scores were given in '97, I'd buy all three in an instant.
I'm sure the Prequel scores will be given the same treatment as the OT scores in due time. It's just a matter of when. Maybe when the Saga is finally released on Blu-Ray we'll get the intended editions of the Prequel scores as part of the soundtrack tie in.
Yes, I must have all complete Star Wars scores, starting with the two we have the least music on: AotC and RotS. I'm still bummed that some of the Jabba'a palace and sail barge music masters are lost or destroyed.
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I don't know if I would call it great, but Star Wars: The Clone Wars, I guess. The soundtrack was definitely much better than the movie, that's for sure. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock was a pretty bad movie. And I didn't care for Memoirs of a Geisha that much.
I don't have very many soundtracks for movies I don't like. I think of it as a way of controlling my budget on my film score hobby.
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I found other threads for this topic, but this one is the longest, has the most discussion, and was posted in most recently...
Last night my wife took me to the Columbus, Ohio concert as a birthday present. I first want to say, wow! Awesome! Being a big fan of Star Wars, film score, and Star Wars film score, I absolutely loved being at this concert.
I'm not big fan of listening to recorded live music, because it never compares to the studio recordings (here I'm referring to music in general, not just film score). But being there live, it can just be magical. You can feel the energy of the musicians. You become a part of a greater whole, the performer-audiance dynamic, whatever you want to call it. It's hard to describe. Being at a live concert is a greater experience than just listening to the music at home.
The giant screen showing the Star Wars "videos", the laser light show, Anthony Daniels narration, the costumes and such in the lobbies, etc. were all great but still just bonus, because I would have immensely enjoyed the concert with only the 82-piece orchestra and 80-member choir making the music for me. Seeing John Williams conduct my local Columbus Symphony Orchestra was an awesome experience as well, but my enjoyment of this concert was very close to that experience. During the opening Main Theme, Duel of the Fates, Battle of the Heroes, Imperial March, Ben's Death/Tie Fighter Attack, Light of the Force, and Throne Room/Finale, I couldn't hide the from my wife the fact that I got a bit teary-eyed.
All that being said, I also wanted to mention something else but I didn't want it to read like a harsh critism or anything. As the previous post states, the narration and video presentation of Star Wars in Concert was in fact almost identical to Star Wars: A Musical Journey, the bonus DVD that came with the Revenge of the Sith sountrack. It was still a nice bonus to have with the live concert experience, but I feel slightly mislead in that that the video presentation would be "new" for this concert. 2005 is four years ago and not really "new" IMO. The music selection is almost identical to the track selection of that DVD as well, in music included and order IIRC. The program says John Williams personally made the selections for this concert tour, but that is also not directly true because he would have made the selections for the Musical Journey DVD. As far as I know, this concert wasn't planned back then. Maybe John Williams really was newly consulted and said "I suggest using the DVD as a guide." That's still roundabout and misleading IMO.
All of the music from the DVD was in the show, with at least the addition of the Flag Parade. Right now I can't think of any other additions. I didn't write them down because I thought they would be in the concert program my wife went out and bought for me during the intermission, but when I got home last night and looked in it, they didn't have the list. If anyone remembers any other additions, please post them here.
I was slightly disappointed that the encore was just a repeat performance of Imperial March, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it again. And instead of the Star Wars video, the encore presentation showed the conducter and orchestra on the big screen. I was a nice final touch to emphasize the performers.
I thought the sound quality of the concert was very good, and have no problems with the venue's sound production. Being a new father, I looked around was very pleased to see a lot of families, or at least dads and sons. Since my son is still a baby, we sent him to my sister-in-law's to baby-sit. I hope they have Star Wars events like this concert, the Science of Imagination and Magic of Myth when my son is old enough so I can take him (if he is even into Star Wars). The only detrimental aspect to the show's "sound" was the little toddler that sat directly behind us. He kept fairly quiet for the first half of the show, but after the intermission the kid wouldn't shut up. The good part is that during the music, I only heard a few peeps out of him during soft parts. The rest of the time, the kid was thankfully drowned out. But the really annoying part was during Anthony Daniel's narration when the kid kept complaining that he was tired, and was it almost time to go? His mom kept shushing him to no avail. He kicked my seat a few time too. I wanted to turn around and tell his mom that she needs to take the kid to the lobby when he will stop disturbing others around him. When Anthony Daniels talks, people are supposed to shut up and listen. Get a baby-sitter for kids that young - that's got to be cheaper than the ticket price. He was up way past his bed time. Some parents are so inconsiderate and rude to others (a pet peave of mine in movie theaters too). In fact, I think the kid was too young for Star Wars films anyway, so he should be too young for this concert too. Granted, they didn't show the melty Anakin telling Obi-Wan that he hated him, but still! Leave the very young kids at home people. OK, rant over.
Despite all that, it still was an awesome experience. What a great show! And one of the nicest birthday presents I have ever recieved in 39 years.
EDIT:
I see now the tour used to be called "Star Wars: A Musical Journey" before it changed to "Star Wars: In Concert".
And now I see from here that no, it doesn't look there are any additional cues beyond the DVD performed except The Flag Parade.
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1. Star Trek (2009)
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. Shadows of the Empire (ok, not a film score, but I iike it anyway)
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I have borrowed the following soundtracks/scores from my local library, and I would like to listen to the tracks in chronological order. Can anyone help me?
Dune (1984)
Apollo 13
Independence Day
The Mummy (1999)
Troy
Batman Begins
The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (2005)
Thanks.
ID4, The Mummy and Narnia are in order. I love that. Thanks.
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ID4 is in order, no worries on that one.
For The Mummy it too is in film order.
For Batman look at this post here.
The others I dunno I'm sure someone else will post info though.
Thanks a lot for your reply about ID4 and The Mummy.
But the Batman link you posted is about Elfman's Batman. I was asking about Batman Begins (2005, by Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard).
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I have borrowed the following soundtracks/scores from my local library, and I would like to listen to the tracks in chronological order. Can anyone help me?
Dune (1984)
Apollo 13
Independence Day
The Mummy (1999)
Troy
Batman Begins
The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (2005)
Thanks.
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I'm posting from a planet where we watch the movie before we review it or decide to boycott it. It is very simple to live on this planet. If we read about a movie and we are not interested in watching it, then we don't watch it. If we want to watch it, we do. After viewing the movie, we may decide if we like the movie or not. Sometimes we tell other people our opinions, even when no one else cares.
For example, I have seen both Terminator and "T2." After veiwing each movie, I decided that they sucked. Based on my experiences, I decided to not bother with the third Terminator movie. I have no opinion on the third movie because I have never seen it.
Since I am an alien to your world, please forgive my poor command of your language. Thanks.
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I already had the 3 released BttF OST/scores, and the trilogy re-recording. Thank you Nemesis, and thank you Delorean90 for your BttF (Part I) compilation.
Delorean90, I have read your thread on the trading board. Do you mind clarifying the source of each track (bootleg, DVD rip, trilogy re-recording) if not already obvious, adding any additional commentary about the quality of any tracks?
Thanks, and Merry Christmas!
Whill
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Is this worth the money?
I realize this a bootleg, but I'd really like to have the score at the best possible quality. I only have one complete score (IJatToD) and don't know how to trade it anyway, so I didn't post anything about BttF in the trade sections.
Thanks for your advice...
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And Andy Serkis is more than a voice - there was an entire motion-capture technology that was refined to make Gollum so realistic in TTT and RotK.
It looks like someone has watched his special features.
I stand corrected. But I still think Serkis is a shoe-in, the easiest person to get to be in these movies. -
I'm optimistic! My main wishes are for Serkis, McKellen, Jackson and Shore to return. And someone good to voice Smaug.
Would also be nice for John Rhys Davies to play Gloin!
Jackson is already involved. For the sake of musical unity, I also hope they get Shore. Serkis is a shoe-in because he only has to provide a vocal performance. McKellen is a must. Even though I didn't care for the casting of Hugo Weaving as Elrond, they should get him anyway for the sake of continuity. It would be cool to see Christopher Lee as Saruman again.
And yes, I would love to see John Rhys-Davies as Gimli's father! The could make him look different enough to visually differentiate Gloin from Gimli, and I'm sure the script, direction and acting could vary the actor's performance enough to differentiate the characterizations.
But I'm sorry, Ian Holm would be all wrong for Bilbo. Septuagenarian Holm was perfect for 111-year-old Bilbo in LOTR. But Bilbo is supposed to be middle-aged in The Hobbit, and Holm will at least be 77 when they film these movies.
That would be like having a man almost 77-year-old play the Force-ghost of a recently-deceased 45-year-old Anakin Skywalker!
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Either way, B&N is way overpriced. I only browse, never buy. All my money goes to the best place to buy anything: AMAZON.com
Word. I stopped even looking at the CD/DVD section of B&N long ago.
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People, don't be so prejudice. How can you judge movies you haven't even seen, or that haven't even been made yet? It sounds like the they want to have a movie about the Hobbit, which we have all wanted all along. And then the other movie is mostly new stuff, but trying to creatively fill in the gap between the Hobbit and LOTR. This is a better idea then streching the Hobbit into two movies. It allows you to enjoy the Hobbit, and then simply disregard the "midquel" if you don't like it. It doesn't have to all or nothing. And maybe the 2nd movie will be the best of them all. Only time will tell. I'm excited about the news, and yes, I will be dissappointed if one or both of these are not good. But I won't know until I actually see them.
Movie critics, please see the movies first!
And if they were really turning into George Lucas, it would be the Hobbit Trilogy
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Whew! I have read this entire thread twice now (and took better notes the 2nd time). Like many of the topics in this glorious internet community, this thread needs an index of it's own.
After reading the input of several posters, I want to post the track sequences I have decided to go with as far as the Brosnan film chronological soundtracks, and just using the tracks on the original CDs (since that is all I have anyway). In case this helps anyone else...
GoldenEye: 2,1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16
Tomorrow Never Dies: 2,1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,13,12,14,15
The World Is Not Enough: 2,3,1,4,5,6,8,7,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19
Die Another Day: 3,4,1,5,6,7,8,10,9,11,12,13,14,15,2
I don't have the Gun Barrel mp3's for GE and TWINE. I may just use the Gun Barrels I have from other films (and I'm open to recommendations).
The Gun Barrels are so cool at the beginning of a score because they are so distinctive of Bond. They announce: You are about to hear a Bond score.
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The Flying Sequence from Superman always sounded slightly Christmassy to me.
Yeah, I can go with that too. Great theme.
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I'll listen to Die Hard and Lethal Weapon.
Sweet! I don't have those scores yet, but every Christmas season I alternate between watching Die Hard and Die Harder. I think I'll have to watch Lethal Weapon also - it's been a while for that one.
Regarding Christmas music, I'm one of those weirdos that doesn't get into most of it. Maybe it has to do with the tramatic childhood exerience of my mom over-playing the Elvis Christmas record...in July.
I want to clarify that I do love Christmas overall, just not Christmas music.I've always thought that the Star Trek IV soundtrack has a Christmas feel to it, and I still like to whip out that CD this time of year. I used to be a huge Trek fan in my childhood, and I remember I saw it in the theater that December ('86). The movie's symbolism of Kirk to Christ didn't escape me even back then, and I think the Christmasy sound was intentional.
Yes, and I think the Star Trek IV soundtrack is even better than the first time it was released (under the title of Lord of the Rings).
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The unrated version has several f-words, but I didn't notice it having a lot more blood and guts then in the theater. Action/adventure is my favorite movie genre, but I'm ok with less gore. There is a way to craftfully edit movies to suggest the gore without directly showing you a lot of it.
And regarding the profanity, the PG-13 rated version didn't bother me either. I actually have friends that refused to watch it in the theater because it didn't have the the end of his famous phrase. What a rediculous stance.
But at least we now have the movie as it was originally intended, profane like the first 3 films. I mainly just wanted to point out that the inclusion of several f-words is virtually the only difference I noticed between the two versions. Either way, a great movie.
And at least now with the unrated release, my friends don't have to deny themselves a quality action film due to absence of "f#ck@r."
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Is "The Da Vinci Code" in chrono order? If not, does anyone know the order?
Also, if anyone knows of a place I can go to get translations (or meanings) of the track titles, that would be great.
Thanks.
No, it's not chrono. In fact it's very mixed up; most of the album consists of suites that comprise short bits used at various points in the movie, and it's a bit difficult to tell were each fragment went to.
Here's a try:
Track 1 starts with the main title, and then skips to one of the last scenes were Langdon is figuring out the cryptex in Westminster Abbey. The track title refers to a writing on Newton’s tomb, which is more or less visible during this scene.
Trach 3 depicts Silas whipping himself. The title refers to the toy Silas is using.
Track 4 (and possibly track 12) underscores Langdon's and Sophie's escape from the Louvre.
Track 5 is used either in the bank when the box containing the cryptex arrives, or in the library when Teibing starts his lecture. (Arcana means Secret)
Track 6: the flashbacks of the various witch-hunts, as told by Teabing. The title is the same as the title of the book that instructed the Inquisition on how to recognise and treat witches.
Parts of track 9 and 11 are used during Sophie's recollections of her childhood and her realisation of who she really is at Rosslyn Chapel. The ‘chalice’ in the title refers to Magdalene’s womb. ‘Rose of Arimathea’ points at Magdalene herself, as she was born in Arimathea.
Track 10 underscores the scene where Silas tries to escape from police, and accidentaly kills Aringarosa. A variation on it (without the voices) is used during the Smart-chase.
Track 13 depicts Langdon finding Magdalene's tomb at the end. ‘Chevaliers’ = hunters, ‘Sangrial’ = the Grail.
Track 14 is used first when Langdon and Sophie enter Westminster, and later during the last part of the end credits.
So you can’t really program this cd chrono; you would have to chop most cues into pieces - very complicated. But I think the score works great this way. Too bad the end titles of the movie don't start with the Kyrie; it works great after Chevaliers.
Thanks for this! But what about tracks 2, 7 and 8?
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I really hope they don't pull a Narnia with this film. I love the Narnia books, and I think the film really lost the spirit once the battles began. They tried to make it too "Lord of the Rings" and in doing so lost the smaller, more magical feel of the books.
I loved the Narnia Chronicles when I was a child, but I am no longer a child. I've very glad for the "Lord of the Rings" influence on making the battle more epic. It helped me enjoy it more. In fact, I think more movies need more "Lord of the Rings" in them!
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The Three Musketeers?
Do you already have tickets for Star Wars VII?
in General Discussion
Posted
Yep. I have tickets for my first three viewings, taking different people for each of their first viewings. The first will be with my wife on Thursday evening, the second will be with my childhood friend since 1982 (who I always see Star Wars with) on Friday morning, and third will be with my son (for his first theatrical Star Wars) on Monday morning. I'll probably go back for an IMAX 3D viewing whenever my brother comes to town. I hope it's good enough to see 4 times! My least favorite Star Wars film was AotC, and I saw that 5 times in the theater. If TFA is better than AotC, I'll do cartwheels.