Whill
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Posts posted by Whill
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In general, all Star Wars and Indiana Jones music from 77-84 plus the original Superman makes me feel nostalgic (and those six JW scores are still six of my top ten favorite scores to this day).
But out of all those, the one cue that really stands out as the most nostalgic and emotional is the last segment of The Battle of Yavin (Use The Force?). It takes me back to that very magical night my Dad took my brother and me to see Star Wars in the theater. Even though I've seen the movie a hundred times by now, when hearing the music I still get swept up in the feeling of the first time I saw that scene on the edge of my seat.
After the first two trench runs result in failure, Red Leader bites it, leaving the fate of the galaxy up to the Tatooine farm boy who had never flown a starfighter before this battle. The Death Star closes in on the Rebel base. Leia begins to looks scared and moves a little closer to the Rebel general for comfort. Even though Luke had recently seen the charred remains of his adoptive parents, witnessed his new mentor get cut down by Vader, and watched his new friend Han abandon the doomed rebel cause for the sake of his mercenary ways, Luke focused his resolve onto the task at hand. Biggs and Wedge express their skepticism and R2 works to lock down that loose stabalizer. Vader and his wingmen enter the trench behind the Rebel pilots. Wedge gets shot and has to leave Biggs and Luke. R2 tries to increase the power. Vader closes in.
Then Luke's buddy from back home gets blown away by Vader! The clock is ticking as the Death Star is less than 30 seconds away from being able to destroy Princess Leia, 3PO and the Rebel base, just like Alderaan! Vader announces that he is on the leader, our lone hero in an X-wing! 3PO worries. Luke activates his targeting computer. Then Luke hears Obi-Wan's voice, distracting him from his preparation for the shot. "Use the Force, Luke. Let go, Luke. Luke, trust me." Then Luke turns off his targeting computer! No, Luke! Are you crazy?! Then Vader fries R2! Oh No! The Death Star clears the planet! Tarkin orders the super-weapon to fire as they commence primary ignition! Vader locks Luke's X-wing into his sights and announces his impending triumph over the Rebels as Luke is about to die...
Then suddenly blaster-fire rains down from above and one of Vader's wingmen explodes, fouling Vader's shot at Luke! Ya-hoo! Han came back, just in the knick of time! The Millenium Falcon flies towards them out of the sun! Vader's remaining wingman over-reacts, bumping into Vader! The wingman hits the trench wall and explodes, while Vader spins away out of control! "You're all clear kid! Now let's blow this thing and go home." Luke lets the torpedoes go as he let's out the breathe he had been holding. They find their mark, but will it be in time? The Rebel ships zoom away as the Death Star prepares to fire... BOOM!!! The dreaded Death Star explodes into a zillion atoms! "Great shot, kid! That was one in a million!" "Remember, the Force will be with you, always."
Just typing this brought tears to my eyes. This is the greatest climax in cinematic history, and I will never forget the vivid feelings I felt when seeing (and hearing) this the first time in the theater as a child in the 70's.
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Attack of the Clones
I'd go farther and say all three Prequels. Heck, while I'm at it, I'll just go ahead and say any Star Wars score that anyone here doesn't like.
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Despite its flaws and not being what Sony said it was, TPM: UE is still a very cool release with WAY more music available then the OST. I know this won't make me more popular here, but I think that AOTC and ROTS did not have complete scores because of all the flack that a large portion of the film score community gave Sony/Lucasfilm after TPM: UE. It's their revenge. We complain and they say screw you, no more expanded/complete releases then. What kind of logic is it to hate on people to get them to do what you want?
As far as the last two Star Wars and last two Indy films, I'd be thrilled with even expanded versions like with Raiders. 12 minutes missing? Wah, wah, cry about it. Even a little more is better than nothing! Not all of us know how to rip music from DVDs, and some of us like the sound and even inserts of a quality official release.
I try to be grateful of what I've been given, instead of negative about what I don't have. Sure, I would love absolutely complete and un-edited Star Wars and Indy scores, but I'll take whatever I can get. Thank you very much.
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I can't get into opera vocals, but some of the music is ok.
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Done, all three.
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Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, anyone?
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Nicholas Hooper is doing Half-Blood Prince.
Yes, I just discovered that on IMDb. Oh well, we can still hope for DH!
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All that aside, who do you think is going to do the next one?
Nicholas Hooper! Duh!
Ow, harsh. I don't think it was an obvious question, but IMDb does state Hooper...
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Williams has also expressed interest in scoring Half-Blood Prince.
I hope that he does HBP and DH, but at least DH. I think the HP series of books get steadily better as they go, climaxing with DH. It has so much action that they could easily make this a three hour movie and it would not be boring.
However I think that the movies (so far) pinnacled with PoA, but DH could still easily become the best movie of the series as well. Since JW started the movie series, I hope he gets to finish it off.
And I completely agree that any movie-maker would be an utter idiot to turn down JW if he expressed interest, regardless of his price. They should bend over backwards and work around his schedule to score the film.
I can't imagine that any movie-maker would intentionally not want JW to score their film, except for maybe The Lord of the Rings.
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I try not to watch much TV, but I've been getting into The Big Bang Theory. It's pretty good for a sit com.
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4) As a clumbsy teenager in the late 80's, I accidentally backhanded David Crosby (of Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young) in the back of his head in the VIP section of a Bruce Springsteen concert. I stuttered a few words while he looked at me angrily. I guess that doesn't really count as meeting and interacting with someone, but I still consider it one of my claims to fame. I still feel pretty bad about it to this day.
3) Slash (of Guns N' Roses fame) - I actually strummed his guitar live in concert while he was playing a solo on speaker right beside me. Surprisingly, he didn't kick me in the head like I expected. He just kept on playing with a huge grin on his face. I'm sure he was wasted.
2) I've shaken hands and had brief interchanges with members from the band 311.
1) I shook hands and had a 5 minute conversation with Ray Manzarek, keyboardist for The Doors.
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I'd not be surprised if there was a pop song in the main titles, like that Quantum Leap meets Star Trek Christmas Special.
Ugh, I hope not.
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WHY would anyone pay for it?! You can just copy the track list off of Amazon, and then compile it at home.
Exactly. Also I could make a better compilation than this.
Exactly, exactly. I have already made few compilaions way better than this.
But the track list wasn't on Amazon for some reason and the update product info function didn't allow for track list updating, so I just submited a review of the item with the track list and a warning that there is nothing new here.
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I think it is likely that the new TV series will have a new main title theme instead of just using Luke's theme like in the 6 movies. I also think it's likely that Williams will create the new main theme. After all, Williams made the "theme" to Monday Night Football, so why couldn't he do one theme for a Star Wars TV show? And I feel it's likely Willaims will only make this new main theme. I think McNeely would be a good choice to score the series.
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If you're analyzing themes totally ignore any tracked cues, they mean nothing outside the scene they were originally written for.
This brings up my old philosphy class debate about the meaning of art. Is the meaning only what the artist intended it to mean, or is meaning relative to the viewer? I think the same question can be applied specifically to music (an art form) and films (another art form).
John, your absolute statement puts you in the camp of the artist's intention. We know that JW, our artist, intended on creating a theme for the Arena action. We may like the theme. We may even agree that it fits the originally intended scene well.
But the film editing process hacked it up into little pieces and only put a few bits of it in the final movie product. Yes, those tiny bits still appear in the film's arena scene.
Even though I value your imput, I have to respectfully disagree that tracked queues don't have any meaning beyond what they were orignally written for. IMO the arena queue didn't really end up getting used in AOTC for what it was originally intended to be. Watch the movie - it's barely in there at all. Using it in ROTS was a way for it to not go to waste.
To me, the march feels right for the march on the Jedi Temple. It has meaning for me, one viewer of the art. I love Star Wars, and the track having meaning in the march on the temple helps me enjoy it more. I'm ok if my point of view doesn't help others, because it works for me.
I think your statement may also imply your opinion about the use of tracked music at all. I'm sure a lot of people on here feel that no movies soundtracks should ever track music. In an idea world, I feel the same way.
But something like Star Wars is such a massive and complex undertaking, even for JW. I feel sorry for the guy having to work with Lucas, who edits up to the very last day before going to print. I'm so happy that the Star Wars movie saga is complete and JW won't have to score any more Star Wars (unless he is somehow involved with the TV series). I'm thankful for all that we did get from him.
I really don't mind this particular use of tracked music one movie later because the original creation didn't ever get realized in anywhere close to it's originally intended form. If all snippits of the arena march had been completely removed from AOTC and it wasn't on the soundtrack or any bootleg and you never even knew of it's existence before hearing it for the first time in ROTS, I think it's possible you would call it the temple march and enjoy it.
And I love the Escape from Naboo track, so a few subsequent uses of it are ok with me. And the Tie Fighter Attack music appearing in ROTJ is cool to me too.
This doesn't mean I like all uses of tracked music, but these are a few I dig.
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And I do realize that use of tracked music doesn't mean it's a leitmotif. I have read that some fans were upset by the use of the tracked Arena march in ROTS when the new Sith Lord Vader is leading the stormtroopers on the siege of the Jedi Temple because it is thematically inappropriate. Last night I listened to the Arena part of the AOTC OST and then watched that part of the DVD. The Arena march hardly appears in the final cut of the movie at all. And what is there is totally hacked to pieces. But from a movie perspective, the so-called Arena motif doesn't really serve that purpose in the movie. So I now feel that it is not really the Arena motif, and I don't have a problem with it being used for that march to the Temple. It is just cool music that was re-used. In my opinion, It actually serves a better purpose in ROTS. So now I call it the Temple March.
And of course I understand that the Tie Fighter battle music when the Falcon is escaping from the Death Star isn't really a leitmotif because the music was tracked for ROTJ. But it is really cool music, and I'm glad they re-used some of it in the Battle of Endor.
By the way, that fun TPM action cue that first appears in Escape From Naboo is also used on Geonosis. Do you remember which part of ROTS that was used in? I now simply refer to it as the "Prequel Action Cue." If I can fit them on my CD, I'll still use that and a phrase of the Tie Fighter music - not because they are leitmotifs - but just because they are very cool action cues which also happen to appear more than once in Star Wars movies.
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Thanks for all the detail!
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Thanks for this discussion guys. Being a long-time listener but new and amaturer thematic analyst, I truly appreicate it.
I do understand that you can't always trust Wikipedia, because anyone can submit anything until it is challenged by someone else. And even though I love to use it overall, I have discovered many factual errors on Wookieepedia. When I get around to registering I will get on there to correct a few things...
Datameister, I think Anakin's "second" motif is in fact the b section of the Theme you referred to, but yeah I don't have any reason to believe there is something that could be considered Anakin's 3rd motif. And yeah the lost author of that quote I posted is definitely mis-using the word "leitmotif" because the definition of leitmotif includes that it's a reacurring motif. Something that appears once is not a lietmotif, but may (depending on our point of view) still be considered a motif.
Thanks for your responses to the so-called action ostinato as well. It just bothered me that the lost author said that it is heard often in ANH, but I had no idea what he was talking about.
Oh, and I haven't listened to it yet, but I think it is possible that a brief musical phrase (probably percussion) may have been used in AOTC that was meant to be reminicient of when Luke got attacked by the Tusken Raiders in ANH. But does that make it a leitmotif, or even a motif? Maybe not. I see your point. Thanks again.
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I reckon Anakin's Heroic Motif is the fanfare heard when he wins the Pod Race.
Hail to the Winner, Anakin Skywalker? Is that music also "prominent during the Battle for Naboo scenes"?
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Now, I purposely didn't post times for "Anakin's heroic motif" and "Tusken Raider motif" because I don't believe these exist. The former might be referring to the beautiful beginning of "The Podracer Roars to Life"; this melody is also heard starting around 3:00 in "Anakin is Free." I really wouldn't classify this as a motif, though, seeing as how it only has two appearances. And then there's certainly music for the Tusken Raiders--quite possibly the best drum break ever, actually--but it's not a motif. There isn't any musical element that gets repeated from scene to scene or movie to movie for the sand people.
Now, the "action ostinato" from ANH....hmmmm. That could be referring to the repeated figure at the start of "Imperial Attack." I dunno. This is another one that's not usually referred to...
Thanks for posting on these too. I got some of my information on the classic trilogy and TPM motifs from an old web page that I can't find anymore. I had copied the info and saved it in a word document. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'll share what I have. Perhaps what actually constitutes a motif depends greatly on "our own point of view..."
Anakin's ThemeAnakin actually has three leitmotifs. The first represents his most common underscore, while the second represents a compliment to the first. Both of these themes feature prominently in the Tatooine scenes. The third is Anakin's heroic motif, which is prominent during the Battle for Naboo scenes.
Action OstinatoThe action ostinato is heard often throughout Star Wars. It usually appears as bassline on top of which the Rebel Fanfare is heard. However, it is often heard without the Rebel Fanfare, designating it as a leitmotif in its own right.
And the Tusken Raider motif is listed on Wikipedia as a Minor Motif appearing in ANH and AOTC. It may be a short semi-musical phrase but I can probably listen to the soundtracks and movies at the parts it should appear and figure it out.
But I'm clueless about Anakin's Heroic Motif and the Action Ostinato. Anyone else have any ideas or do these really even exist?
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Thank you, Datameister. You replied to so many and even gave me multiple examples for some. You're my new hero!
Does anyone else have any suggestions, especially for the following four motifs?
Anakin's Heroic Motif
Tusken Raiders Motif
Imperial Motif (from ANH)
Action Ostinato (from ANH, motif sometimes appears without the Rebel Fanfare)
I think I can probably figure these out...
The Throne Room (from III:T15?)
Jawa Theme (IV:D1:T4 starting at 0:57?)
Tie Fighter Battle Theme
Han Solo And The Princess (V:D2:T12 starting at 4:48?)
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I've always enjoyed making compilations, and I recently acquired software that allows me to edit tracks. After seeing John Williams in concert, I'm inspired to make a new Star Wars compilation of concert suites and themes from the CDs I have: TPM Ultimate Edition (EU), the three one-disc prequel soundtracks (I, II, III), the three two-disc Special Edition soundtracks (IV, V, VI), the original ROTJ CD (OVI) and John Williams Greatest Hits 1969-1999 (GH). The following tracks showcase themes and were easy to come up with:
I:T2 Duel Of The Fates
UE:D1:T7 The Droid Invasion
UE:D1:T31 The Flag Parade
I:T3 Anakin's Theme
II:T2 Across The Stars (Love Theme from AOTC)
III:T5 General Grievous
III:T3 Battle Of The Heroes (including a segment of The Force/Obi-Wan's Theme)
GH:D1:T1 Star Wars Main Title (Main/Luke's Theme, Rebel Fanfare)
IV:D2:T1 Princess Leia's Theme
V:D2:T1 The Imperial March (Darth Vader's Theme)
V:D2:T2 Yoda's Theme
VI:D2:T2 Luke And Leia
VI:D2:T1 Parade Of The Ewoks
VI:D2:T12 The Forest Battle
I have no music education and never even studied one instrument, but I am passionate about music. I have read several Star Wars theme analyses and educated myself to the point of being able to hum the above themes from memory. I have heard and read about many other motifs that don't have concert suites or entire tracks devoted to them. There are even a couple motifs that I haven't been able to figure out when listening to the music. The following are the themes I would also like to include quotations of in my compilation:
Anakin's Heroic Motif?
Shmi's Theme
Jar Jar's Theme
Qui-Gon's Theme
Funeral Theme
Kamino Motif
Arena March
The Force/Obi-Wan's Theme
The Throne Room
Jawa Theme
Tusken Raiders Motif
Action Ostinato? (from ANH, motif sometimes appears without the Rebel Fanfare)
Tie Fighter Battle Theme
Death Star Motif
Imperial Motif (from ANH)
Han Solo And The Princess (Love Theme from ESB)
Boba Fett Motif
Cloud City March
Droid Motif
Jabba's Theme (from OVI:T5?)
Sidious/The Emperor's Theme
I was really hoping that some of you John Williams pros would be able to suggest tracks (with start and end times) that serve as good quotes of the above themes. If possible I would like to use quotes from the movie that the theme first appears in, but if a better quote comes from another movie then I may use that instead. I thought of using the short quotes as segues and interludes to the longer pieces. I would also appreciate any sequencing suggestions as well (but I'd like to keep it roughly chronological, at least keeping the quotes lumped together by movie quoted from. And as silly as it may sound, I thought of using the inferior Imperial motif from ANH as an introduction to Imperial March.
And btw, what is that action music theme that appears in "Escape From Naboo", "Anakin Defeats Sebulba" and perhaps elsewhere?
Thank you all!
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I was at this show as well. It was everything I dreamed of for a non-choral concert (I'm still fantasizing about seeing "Duel of the Fates" performed live someday).
"Star Wars Main Title," "Imperial March," "Radiers March," "Superman," and more! But I think the my personal favorite part of the show was the live synchronization of "Indy's Very First Adventure" to the scene from the Last Crusade on the big movie screen. And I really liked how JW talked to the audience between songs. He was very witty.
This concert was possibly a once in a lifetime event for me. I feel so blessed that I finally got a chance to see the Maestro and I will always cherish these special memories.
Bravo!
Sequencing Bond
in General Discussion
Posted
At the David Arnold website ( http://davidarnold.com/ ) I still cannot see how I can dowload the Bond tracks. I use IE, and my temporary internet folder is empty while I am playing them. Please help!