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Trope

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    Trope reacted to chrissiddall in James Horner - LEGENDS OF THE FALL in full score (Chris Siddall Publishing)   
    Most composers use orchestrators to "fill out" their music.  Due to the volume of music required and the often-short deadlines, it's necessary to delegate some of the work.  You may have seen some 4- or 8-stave sketches from the likes of John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith, which are usually very precise and prescriptive about which instruments or sections should take each line or note.  James usually sketched on full score paper.  The amount of information on them varied depending on how precisely he wanted a scene or beat to be handled.  Some parts were essentially fully scored out and orchestrated, others very basically sketched, leaving it to the orchestrator (who would doubtless also have received a verbal briefing).
    Some cues were not written down, but dictated to the "soloist" players, such as "12m2 Revenge".  This was fairly common for James, and features in several scores such as Field of Dreams, and Clear and Present Danger.
  2. Haha
    Trope reacted to The Great Gonzales in New Project: John Williams Potter Scoring   
    "thank you, you'll be hearing from my lawyers." ~ JW
  3. Like
    Trope reacted to Jay in James Horner's STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN (1982) - 2021 2-CD La-La Land Records Remastered Edition   
    OK so now that I listened to both discs all the way through as-is in my car with no distractions as my first listen, today I did more detailed comparisons between different versions of tracks
     
     
    1-04 The Eels of Ceti Alpha V / Kirk In Space Shuttle vs 2-11 The Eels of Ceti Alpha V (Discrete) & 2-12 Kirk In Space Shuttle (Discrete)
     
    Basically, we already had the full ending of "The Eels of Ceti Alpha V".  The beginning of "Kirk In Space Shuttle" only overlaps the very very end of it.  It comes completely down to personal choice if you prefer this overlap for your custom playlist, or a bit of space in between.  I think I have no strong opinion either way.
     
     
    1-08 Kirk Takes Command / He Tasks Me vs 2-13 Kirk Takes Command (Proposed Album Take)
     
    I can see why Horner selected a different take than the one in the film to potentially going on the album; It isn't drastically different by any stretch of the imagination, but the performance has a bit more urgency to it, and just overall is a better one.  "He Tasks Me" does not overlap the end of the film take at all, so you can completely separate them if you wish.  So that's why no "He Tasks Me (Discrete)" track was needed for the bonus track section.
     
     
    1-14 Buried Alive vs 2-14 Buried Alive (Alternate)
     
    So the difference here is very similar to the difference between "Petrified Colin" and "Petrified Colin (Alternate)" from Harry Potter 2: they're exactly the same until the very end, where the Alternate has a cool little extra ditty that was taceted out for the take that went into the film.  (Of course in this case, each is a completely different take from the other while the Harry Potter track is the same assembly of takes until the very end).  So my personal preference would be to replace the main program version with this version for my custom playlist.  The cue is just more interesting with the extra music (the string pattern from "Khan's Pets" and "Brainwashed") left in!
     
     
    1-16 Battle In The Mutara Nebula (Film Version) vs 2-07 Battle In The Mutara Nebula & 2-17 Wild Orchestra
     
    So we all know that the OST version on disc 2 contains the base cue as-recorded from 7:14-7:31, basically just a held note fading down to total silence before the full orchestra comes back as the Reliant appears on the viewscreen... and the Film Version mixes in Wild Orchestra take 168 over that timestamp, adding a sense of mystery to this passage.  Some people prefer the track with this overlay, some prefer the silence.  I think my ultimate preference is that it works better without; The total silence really makes the return of the orchestra that much more impactful.
     
    Well the "Wild Orchestra" track contains two different cues, the first from 0:00-0:46 I have no idea what it was intended for or where a good spot would be for it in a custom playlist.
     
    BUT! The second cue in the track, from 0:46-end, is another idea that could have been mixed over that "Battle In The Mutara Nebula" 7:14-7:31 spot (Take 169).  I did just that, mixed it over that timestamp of the OST track, and it sounded awesome!!!  In fact, I'd say it's by far my preferred version of the track; the low thumping bass sounds perfectly enhance the dread and uncertainty of the scene, and lead into the return of the full orchestra better than the film take does, and in my opinion better than the full silence version does.  Very cool!

    The only problem is that the OST track of course comes from the 3M output rather than the pure analog output, so to actually create this mix in the best quality, you have to take the main program track, then replace the portion where take 168 is heard and carefully replace it with the OST track to get the overlay-free version, the mix take 169 over that.  That might be beyond my skill level...
     
     
    1-18 Genesis Countdown (Film Version) vs 2-08 Genesis Countdown
     
    I was curious what part of this album version used take 10 to cover up the noise heard on take 12, but even doing the trick of panning one version to the left and the other to the right and playing them in sync, I couldn't figure it out.  Since the OST version comes from the 3M output and the main program the analog, there are numerous mixing differences that make it harder to find the performance difference.  Maybe somebody else will figure it out, but I think it's clear the difference is negligible at best.
     
     
    1-20 Amazing Grace vs 2-15 Amazing Grace (Alternate) & 2-18 Amazing Grace (Alternate Bagpipes)
     
    So the main program "Amazing Grace" and the "Alternate Bagpipes" are identical presentations of the D versions of the intro (take 166) and outro (take 162) cues, but the middle uses the film performance of the bagpipes (take 172) in the main program, and the bonus track version uses the same bagpipe performance, but digitally manipulated to be in tune with the orchestra.  The interesting thing is that this manipulation causes the performance to take longer, so the outro cue starts later in the track.  
     
    "Amazing Grace (Alternate)" however uses the E-Flat version of the intro (take 167) and outro (take 164) cues.... and the bagpipe performance in the middle is a completely different performance than the one used in the film, it's take 171 here.  This is a slower performance than the used version, so the outro cue starts even later in the track.
     
    I think my preference is to just stick with the main program version.
     
     
    1-21 Epilogue / End Title (Film Version) vs 2-09 Epilogue / End Title
     
    Of course the only difference with the "Epilogue" is the Spock narration. 
     
    For the "End Title", the film version is take 145 all the way through while the album version briefly uses take 141 towards the end; Doing the panning trick, you can hear the difference starts around 8:27 or so; the album take is faster than the film take, causing the cue to end very slightly earlier there compared to the film version.  The performance is so minorly different, no reason not to just stick with the main program version.
  4. Like
    Trope reacted to Jay in Close Encounters of the Third Kind - 45th Anniversary Edition La-La Land Records   
    Some interesting information posted by Mike Matessino to the FSM thread for the reissue:
     
    "
    Here's the rundown of what happened and my thoughts on it.
     
    The originally intended end credits music was the Williams arrangement of "When You Wish Upon A Star," recorded on the second day of scoring, June 3, 1977.
    By the time it came to preview the film, Spielberg decided to take it a step further, pulling out the Williams arrangement and adding in the actual song as heard in Disney's Pinocchio. The 2-LP assembly of the soundtrack even included it and the rights to do so were cleared.
     
    The movie previewed in Dallas on October 13, 1977, and a lot of the reaction cards contained strong negative comments about the song. The knee-jerk response was to not just go back to Williams' arrangement, but to quickly edit together other music to cover the credits. As pointed out, it was parts of "TV Reveals," "Roy and Jillian on the Road," and then circling back to the final part of "Resolution."
     
    Another takeaway from the preview was that Arista reps determined that the soundtrack album did not have the same sales potential as Star Wars and so the assembled 2-LP album was cut down to one, and the work was done so fast that for the end credits they simply mixed down what had just been edited for the picture -- the actual film dubbing elements -- and stuck it onto the new album master. That is why "Resolution and End Title" has always sounded of inferior quality on the album.
     
    The disco piece was commissioned as part of this, based on how well Meco's Star Wars had done and seeing Saturday Night Fever on the horizon. It was recorded in early November, and the track "Nocturnal Pursuits," created for the newly shortened album, was selected for the B-side of the 45 rpm release. The 7-inch 33 rpm was made for the soundtrack album, but there was nothing on the B-side.
     
    Also cut after the preview was the introduction to the Nearys, replaced with a Jiminy Cricket music box playing "When You Wish." This was the solution to the deletion of all the dialogue about taking the kids to see Pinocchio but needing to motivate Ronnie calling Roy "Jiminy Cricket." The music box plays through the whole scene in the 1977 version because they had a certain length of allowable time to use the song once it was cut from the end credits. (The later appearance of the music box was also an insert filmed after the main scene.)
     
    By 1980, distanced from the preview reactions and with the film having been embraced, Spielberg put back in the original Neary introduction that had been previewed and went back to his original intention to use "When You Wish." Williams' original ending arrangement was reinstated and he was also able to quote it in his new "Inside" music, recorded in Boston (Spielberg stopping there for the sessions on his way to France to begin filming Raiders).
     
    Personally, I like the use of the song and Williams' arrangement, especially with the extra black at the end over which it plays. It's a gentle, tonal bookend to the opening dark screen with the building dissonant chord. It has meaning to this story that connects music with transcendence. The edited music that they changed it to is just tracked music to run over credits, entirely utilitarian. The Williams arrangement is only heard on the 1980 version of the film, but to me it belongs there and is my preferred ending. That's just my opinion about it.
     
    For those who want the crossover from "Contact" to "End Title," the re-creation of the album track is at the end of La-La Land's CD2. The only reason they were combined together initially, even on the scrapped 2-LP album, is because the first cue also uses "When You Wish" and therefore the song could be cleared for one track rather than two. But things are a bit different now with these limited editions when it comes to derivative tracks - it was easier to clear the song for an extra track than it was to create a derivative track that exceeded 5 minutes and pushed it into the next mechanical rate tier. Plus the clean ending to "Contact" would not have otherwise been heard on the first disc.
    "
     
    https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=148453&forumID=1&archive=0
  5. Like
    Trope reacted to Remco in Alan Rickman Thought Williams’ Potter Score Was “Hideous”   
    It’s interesting to read this from a guy like Rickman and I remember also Norman Lebrecht’s comment that it ‘completely failed to match a kids movie about wizards’ or something like that.
     
    Actually  the kids that grew up with it all love the score and it’s a huge part of the nostalgia for these films. Williams knows all too well what to do for this kind of film…
  6. Like
    Trope reacted to Jay in Close Encounters of the Third Kind - La-La Land MUSIC Discussion   
    No.
     
    But you can come very close with this:
     
    2-01    Main Title    1:16
    1-10    TV Reveals / Across Country    2:52
    2-14    Across The Fields    1:20
    2-15    Stars And Trucks    0:49
    2-09    The Abduction Of Barry    4:36
    2-13    I Can't Believe It's Real    3:24
    2-18    Climbing Devils Tower    2:11
    1-18    The Mothership    4:36        
    2-21    Night Siege    6:26
    2-22    The Conversation    2:23
    1-21    The Appearance Of The Visitors    4:55 
    2-31    Resolution and End Title    6:54      
  7. Like
    Trope reacted to Jay in Close Encounters of the Third Kind - La-La Land MUSIC Discussion   
    He's the best in the business!
  8. Like
    Trope reacted to Mr. Who in Simon Franglen's AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER (2022)   
    Yeah hopefully he can use sketches and maybe even unused ideas from the first score.
  9. Like
    Trope reacted to Not Mr. Big in Nicholas Britell - ANDOR (2022)   
    I feel like this and Mandolorian are good examples of when to deviate from the established sound.  The problem is, all the other D+ shows are doing it too.
     
    Had they gone the full traditional route for Obi Wan (in a perfect world where it wasn't a low budget sci fi channel original) I don't think anyone would have cared that Andor doesn't sound like SW.  
    As is, it's just another step into the generic modernizing of SW music
  10. Like
    Trope reacted to LSH in Simon Franglen's AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER (2022)   
    MUSIC BY SIMON FRANGLEN
     
     
    I thought I'd create a new thread for discussion of the score since, in time, it will become a huge talking point. Couple of things to start off with...
     
    According to Vanity Fair, the music heard in the teaser is Simon Franglen's. Thoughts? I rather like it. I like that it just outlines the chords of Horner's theme in what is quite a dreamy (in synth, processed voices and organ from what I can hear) piece.  
    I have no doubt that there will be another end credits song since that was one of Franglen's production tasks on the first score. I can't personally think of anybody (relevant at least) that I would like to be involved but then I am amazingly out of touch. So much time has passed since Avatar that hardly anybody remembers Leona Lewis; she hasn't released a record in seven years.  
    Anyway I, for one, am holding out a lot of faith for this. I expect Franglen to honour Horner faithfully; I just hope that he provides enough new and arresting material to propel - what is expected to be a loooonngg franchise - forward. I care far more about Avatar music than Avatar films.
     
    Discuss and argue about stuff now.
  11. Like
    Trope reacted to Jay in Close Encounters of the Third Kind - La-La Land MUSIC Discussion   
    OK, here's how to create a Complete & Chronological playlist from this set, either with source music integrated or without.
     
    I do encourage all who haven't received their copies to listen to disc 1 and disc 2 as-is before trying this out.
     
    Chronological Order - Score Only
    2-01 Main Title (1:16) 1-02 Navy Planes (2:13) 1-03 Lost Squadron (2:33) 1-04 Trucking (2:08) 2-02 Roy's First Encounter (2:43) 2-03 Encounter at Crescendo Summit (1:24) 2-04 Chasing UFOs (1:21) 2-05 Watching The Skies (1:20) 2-07 Another Vision (0:42) 2-06 Vision Takes Shape (0:41) 2-08 False Alarm (1:44) 1-08 Barry's Kidnapping (6:23) 2-10 The Cover-Up (2:31) 2-15 Stars And Trucks (0:49) 1-09 Forming The Mountain (1:56) 2-11 TV Reveals (1:52) 2-12 Roy And Jillian On The Road (1:20) 1-11 The Mountain (3:37) 2-16 Who Are You People (1:38) 1-13 The Escape (2:19) 1-14 Climbing The Mountain (2:35) 1-15 Outstretched Hands (2:51) 2-19 Dark Side Of The Moon (1:34) 1-16 The Light Show (3:46) 1-17 Barnstorming (4:31) 1-18 The Mothership (4:36) 1-19 The Dialogue (4:28) 1-20 The Returnees (3:56) 1-21 The Appearance Of The Visitors (4:55) 1-22 Contact (3:21) 1-23 End Titles (4:26) TOTAL TIME - 1:21:29
     
     
    Chronological Order - with Source Music
    2-01 Main Title (1:16) 1-02 Navy Planes (2:13) 1-03 Lost Squadron (2:33) 2-25 Eleventh Commandment (1:58) 1-04 Trucking (2:08) 2-02 Roy's First Encounter (2:43) 2-03 Encounter at Crescendo Summit (1:24) 2-04 Chasing UFOs (1:21) 2-05 Watching The Skies (1:20) 2-07 Another Vision (0:42) 2-06 Vision Takes Shape (0:41) 2-08 False Alarm (1:44) 2-28 The Five Tones (2:24) 1-08 Barry's Kidnapping (6:23) 2-26 TV Western (1:06) 2-10 The Cover-Up (2:31) 2-15 Stars And Trucks (0:49) 1-09 Forming The Mountain (1:56) 2-27 Lava Flow (1:48) 2-11 TV Reveals (1:52) 2-12 Roy And Jillian On The Road (1:20) 1-11 The Mountain (3:37) 2-16 Who Are You People (1:38) 1-13 The Escape (2:19) 1-14 Climbing The Mountain (2:35) 1-15 Outstretched Hands (2:51) 2-19 Dark Side Of The Moon (1:34) 1-16 The Light Show (3:46) 2-29 Advance Scout Greeting (2:58) 1-17 Barnstorming (4:31) 1-18 The Mothership (4:36) 1-19 The Dialogue (4:28) 1-20 The Returnees (3:56) 1-21 The Appearance Of The Visitors (4:55) 1-22 Contact (3:21) 1-23 End Titles (4:26) TOTAL TIME - 1:31:43
     
     
    The only remaining music not covered in the above lists is:
     
    1-01A [0:45-end] The Vision (0:43) {Wild recording of the vision motif, unused in the film} 2-14 Across The Fields (1:20) {Earlier version of "Roy and Jillian On The Road"} 2-17 The Escape (Alternate) (2:41) {Earlier version of "The Escape"} 2-20 The Approach (4:31) {Earlier version of "Barnstorming"} 2-30 The Dialogue (Early Version) (3:10) {Early version of "The Dialogue"} 2-24 Contact (Alternate) (2:52) {Shorter version of "Contact"} 2-23 Inside (2:34) {1980 Special Edition cue, inserted into "Contact" in the 1980 cut of the film}  
     
    For those wondering about just what is on the second disc, well, the second disc is made up of 6 kinds of tracks:
      Cues from the complete score that didn't fit on disc 1 2-05 Watching The Skies (1:20) 2-06 Vision Takes Shape (0:41) 2-07 Another Vision (0:42) 2-15 Stars And Trucks (0:49) 2-19 Dark Side Of The Moon (1:34)   Cues in their own track that are combined with something else on disc 1 2-01 Main Title (1:16) 2-02 Roy's First Encounter (2:43) 2-03 Encounter at Crescendo Summit (1:24) 2-04 Chasing UFOs (1:21) 2-08 False Alarm (1:44) 2-10 The Cover-Up (2:31) 2-11 TV Reveals (1:52) 2-12 Roy And Jillian On The Road (1:20) 2-16 Who Are You People (1:38)   Alternate versions of cues on disc 1 2-14 Across The Fields (1:20) {Early version of "Roy and Jillian On The Road"} 2-17 The Escape (Alternate) (2:41) 2-20 The Approach (4:31) {Early version of "Barnstorming"} 2-24 Contact (Alternate) (2:52) 2-30 The Dialogue (Early Version) (3:10)   Recorded in 1980 for the Special Edition 2-23 Inside (2:34)   Source music 2-25 Eleventh Commandment (1:58) 2-26 TV Western (1:06) 2-27 Lava Flow (1:48) 2-28 The Five Tones (2:24) 2-29 Advance Scout Greeting (2:58)   Tracks from the 1977 OST album 2-09 The Abduction Of Barry (4:36) 2-13 I Can't Believe It's Real (3:24) 2-18 Climbing Devils Tower (2:11) 2-21 Night Siege (6:26) 2-22 The Conversation (2:23) 2-31 Resolution and End Title (6:54)
  12. Like
    Trope reacted to publicist in Nicholas Britell - ANDOR (2022)   
    Britell's talent is rather that he can write chamber-sized music well. Ask any pro about that: before you can run you need to walk. You don't need much musical talent to make music sound BIG the way RCP does it. To do it good, you better learn how to write effectively for 10 instruments, the rest will follow naturally (Goldsmith and Williams repeatedly mentioned how helpful their salad years were in developing their craft).
  13. Haha
    Trope reacted to A. A. Ron in The Official La-La Land Records Thread   
    My wife is going to buy this for me when it comes out. We'll listen to it nonstop for a few days, laugh at how the Prologue still plays at the wrong speed and she'll say, "The members of that old JWFan forum would have loved this release."
     
    I'll turn toward her my voice filled with sadness and reply "I know, but they're all dead."
  14. Sad
    Trope reacted to Jay in James Horner's FIELD OF DREAMS (1989) - 2-CD La La Land edition (2022)   
    MV confirmed in this thread that Field of Dreams won't be back in stock until 2023
  15. Like
    Trope reacted to bollemanneke in The Official La-La Land Records Thread   
    Give us the Goblet! HP4 has to happen this year, right, with HP1-3 back in stock around that time?
  16. Like
    Trope got a reaction from Yavar Moradi in James Horner's WILLOW (1988) - NEW! 2022 2-CD Intrada Records   
    The one track I have an issue with is the opening of "The Island", where I feel the synthetic chimes are mixed WAY too loudly compared to the surrounding material. But the orchestral writing and thematic interplay is top notch.
     
    I'm amazed it took so long to get a complete (or NEAR complete) release of a score which is so highly regarded among film music fans and collectors. This music makes me want to continue exploring much more of 80s Horner - I have just started listening through his Trek scores, and like Willow I'm super impressed with how he handles the orchestra with such ease (considering how young he was at the time), and the level of detail in the writing. Perhaps it was the fantasy/sci-fi genre that allowed for such complex and bombastic music, but as someone more familiar with his 90s-2000s output, no scores jump to mind that have the same level of orchestral flair and freneticism as the ones I am discovering right now.
  17. Like
    Trope reacted to Jay in James Horner's WILLOW (1988) - NEW! 2022 2-CD Intrada Records   
    I took the shrinkwrap off my copy this morning and am listening now.  Holy hell what a goddamn great score this is, I love it!!
     
    ...But man, I can't get behind integrating "The Newlyns" into the score program where they are.  Just completely stops everything dead in its tracks for 5 minutes after the perfect 10 minute opener, then the score finally resumes.  Not a fan of having the Willow's Theme track in the middle either, especially since its just an edit of the end credits music.

    But other than those minor issues, what a great, great, great release this is!  I'm loving the entire score here, every single track.
     
    Will finally dig into the liner notes later!
  18. Like
    Trope reacted to Jay in James Newton Howard & Xander Rodzinski - WILLOW (2022)   
    EH: What do you have coming up next? I know you’ve got some orchestration projects.
    PK: Yeah, Willow.
    EH: Yeah.
    PK: So, Willow is incredible; James [Newton Howard] did a great job. We’re almost done. I think we’ve done seven episodes and we have one more to do. Then Xander Rodzinski took over for the last few. He used to be one of James’ assistants and now is off on his own and is doing an incredible job. It’s such a fun score. It’s just big lovely fantasy music and a lot of nods to Horner. The danger motif definitely comes in a few times, and all his thematic ideas from Willow are in there too. It’s been really surreal sometimes because it’s a score that I grew up on as a child, and to suddenly be hearing the “Madmartigan Theme” over everything, it’s pretty neat.
     
    https://filmscoremonthly.com/fsmonline/story.cfm?maID=8380&issueID=214&page=3
  19. Like
  20. Like
    Trope reacted to JNHFan2000 in 2022 FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION studio sites (featuring music)   
    I wasn't home the last 2 days, but it's surprising to see that no one is talking about the Emmy wins for Severance & The White Lotus.
     
    I thought the win for Severance was especially deseverved!
  21. Haha
    Trope reacted to Giftheck in 2022 FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION studio sites (featuring music)   
    Since Sony's sites always 503, do we ever know what they submit for consideration?
    If they submit Morbius they're guaranteed a morbillion nominations because it is definitely one of the movies of 2022
  22. Haha
  23. Haha
    Trope reacted to Edmilson in The Official La-La Land Records Thread   
    LLL doing expanded editions of all 5 Indy scores confirmed by Mangold! 
  24. Like
    Trope reacted to DangerMotif in The Official La-La Land Records Thread   
    Pretty cool for a big director to talk about LLL
  25. Like
    Trope reacted to DangerMotif in The official Alexandre Desplat thread   
    https://filmmusicreporter.com/2022/09/05/alexandre-desplat-to-reteam-with-greta-gerwig-on-barbie/
    Really great news, his Little Women score was one of his best
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