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oierem

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  1. Like
    oierem reacted to Chen G. in Star Wars Prequel VS. Sequel scores   
    I do get that feeling about a theme in the sequel trilogy, but a different one: the theme associated with the Force and the way its used in The Last Jedi... Really cheapens Binary Sunset.
  2. Like
    oierem reacted to Datameister in The Official Star Wars Expanded Score Petition Thread   
    That's an extraordinary generalization. The reality is that Lucasfilm comprises people who live and breathe Star Wars, people with a casual appreciation for Star Wars, people who want to interrogate or deconstruct or reshape Star Wars, people who are in it to grow their existing wealth, people who are in it for fame and prestige, people who are just trying to put food on the table, etc., etc.—and people with multiple reasons for being there.
     
    Similar things could be said for the other groups you mentioned. People are complicated. The likelihood of a group of 10 people having identical motivations is low. For groups of hundreds or thousands, the likelihood is effectively zero, particularly when different people within the group were chosen for different reasons in the first place.
  3. Like
    oierem reacted to BrotherSound in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    It was part of the original (unrecorded) version of 5M5 Show Us Your Hook, but was replaced with ‘Stick With Me’ when revised.
     
    Here’s a mockup from @ragoz350:
     
     
     
  4. Like
    oierem reacted to Jay in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    I called it the "Stick With Me Supporting Ostinato" in my list of themes.
     
    John Takis' liner notes describe it as "A mincing humoresque motif [...] derived from the harmonies and intervals of “Stick With Me,”" and later "A disarming comical motif derived from “Stick With Me”"
  5. Like
    oierem reacted to Jay in The Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Enchantment Thread   
    But Star Wars hasn't been done properly either, not the modern standards of catalog restoration set by Mike and Neil and the like.
     
    The old SW and Indy expansions from 1993, 1995, 1997, and 2008 were remarkable for their times but nowhere near up to modern standards.  I'm sure they would have been revisited by now if Disney hadn't bought Lucasfilm.  John Williams isn't the roadblock for these scores, Disney is.
  6. Like
    oierem got a reaction from Jay in The Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Enchantment Thread   
    The structure of Crusade is, at least on paper, perfectly balanced.
    Each 20-minute segment has a beginning, middle and a chase at the end. 
    Part 1: Double prologue.
    Part 2: Venice and the boat chase.
    Part 3: Nazi castle and the motocycle chase.
    Part 4: Berlin and the aereal chase.
    Part 5: Desert and the tank chase.
    Part 6: Emotional climax.
     
    It's way more "perfect" than any of the other two films.
    Which is why it feels almost "too" neat.
  7. Like
    oierem got a reaction from Bellosh in The Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Enchantment Thread   
    The structure of Crusade is, at least on paper, perfectly balanced.
    Each 20-minute segment has a beginning, middle and a chase at the end. 
    Part 1: Double prologue.
    Part 2: Venice and the boat chase.
    Part 3: Nazi castle and the motocycle chase.
    Part 4: Berlin and the aereal chase.
    Part 5: Desert and the tank chase.
    Part 6: Emotional climax.
     
    It's way more "perfect" than any of the other two films.
    Which is why it feels almost "too" neat.
  8. Like
    oierem reacted to Jay in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    It's not "The End of Hook", it's "My Lost Boys" (the first cue in "Farewell Neverland"). The majority of that cue is replaced by "The Face of Pan (Choral Version)" in the film.
     
    What happened was, "The Face of Pan" was always intended to have choir, so it was recorded on the day the choir was present. After two complete takes with the choir performing at the end, it was decided to do a pickup take of just the ending part, but without the choir performing. The final performance edit for the film was then made up of parts of both full takes, with the choir-free pickup ending used. This performance edit was re-created for the album as well, and again for The Ultimate Edition's main program.
     
    When it was decided to replace part of "My Lost Boys" with "The Face of Pan" in the film, what got tracked in wasn't the performance edit that used multiple takes; it was one of the chosen takes exclusively. So, when constructing the bonus section of The Ultimate Edition, Mike could have easily taken the main program performance edit and just swapped in the choral ending from one of the two takes. But because he wanted to be thorough and include every correct performance heard in the film, he made the entire track be the take that got tracked into the end of the movie. 
     
    So that's why it is completely true that every bit of music you hear in the film is on this set: that kind of attention to detail.
  9. Like
    oierem got a reaction from MrJosh in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    Having listened to all 3 Discs as presented (in three consecutive evenings), I've changed the placement of a few tracks, and I've just listened to the complete film score (without all the extras) for the second time, from beginning to end. It's now impossible to listen to all the themes without thinking about the lyrics, which creates a very different listening experience indeed!
     
    I've made three small changes:
    -I've removed the prologue (it's a musical spoiler and it's not part of the film score, so I've moved the first track to the very end of the additional music section.)
    -I've incorporated both non-Williams source cues to the main score presentation. (I always include the source music if it's composed or arranged by Williams. For me, it's part of the score, the same way When You're Alone or the Pirate Town music is).
    -I've swaped the Lost Boy Chase tracks, to include the film version on the main programme. 
     
    Awesome set and awesome score.
  10. Like
    oierem reacted to Jay in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    I completely agree, but I would say those other examples all came about through the normal discourse of creating a film score, hearing one thing and then trying another idea, still during the main scoring sessions.

    The revised Banning Back Home is different, because it was recorded 4 days after they had already thought they finished everything, and it isn't really that much of a different idea, just a kind of a shorter and differently arranged and performed version of the same idea.
     
    But obviously, everyone should feel absolutely comfortable doing absolutely anything they want with their own personal edits, without question!
  11. Like
    oierem got a reaction from bollemanneke in HOOK: Complete Cue List and Chronological Editing Guide   
    Well, logically, Williams' main goal should be to match the film, right? After all, this is not supposed to be a concert suite!
  12. Like
    oierem reacted to Jay in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    May I also humbly recommend trying the original, first version of Banning Back Home to be what's in your new main playlist instead of the revised film version?  I personally find it to be a superior composition and performance, and it's really what John Williams always intended, until the revision was done at the VERY last minute purely because Spielberg carved a minute out of the sequence.
     
    We actually discussed having that original version be the one in the main program, but the CD length limitations were so tight, they couldn't be swapped!
  13. Love
    oierem got a reaction from Brando in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    Having listened to all 3 Discs as presented (in three consecutive evenings), I've changed the placement of a few tracks, and I've just listened to the complete film score (without all the extras) for the second time, from beginning to end. It's now impossible to listen to all the themes without thinking about the lyrics, which creates a very different listening experience indeed!
     
    I've made three small changes:
    -I've removed the prologue (it's a musical spoiler and it's not part of the film score, so I've moved the first track to the very end of the additional music section.)
    -I've incorporated both non-Williams source cues to the main score presentation. (I always include the source music if it's composed or arranged by Williams. For me, it's part of the score, the same way When You're Alone or the Pirate Town music is).
    -I've swaped the Lost Boy Chase tracks, to include the film version on the main programme. 
     
    Awesome set and awesome score.
  14. Love
    oierem got a reaction from Jay in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    Having listened to all 3 Discs as presented (in three consecutive evenings), I've changed the placement of a few tracks, and I've just listened to the complete film score (without all the extras) for the second time, from beginning to end. It's now impossible to listen to all the themes without thinking about the lyrics, which creates a very different listening experience indeed!
     
    I've made three small changes:
    -I've removed the prologue (it's a musical spoiler and it's not part of the film score, so I've moved the first track to the very end of the additional music section.)
    -I've incorporated both non-Williams source cues to the main score presentation. (I always include the source music if it's composed or arranged by Williams. For me, it's part of the score, the same way When You're Alone or the Pirate Town music is).
    -I've swaped the Lost Boy Chase tracks, to include the film version on the main programme. 
     
    Awesome set and awesome score.
  15. Like
    oierem reacted to Jay in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
  16. Like
    oierem got a reaction from Yavar Moradi in John Williams’ First and Last Great Score   
    Jane Eyre and The Force Awakens, I would say. 
     
    I don't think TLJ and ROS are great as a whole (though they have great highlights of course).
    The Post and The Fabelmans are too small to be considered great (although I love the simplicity and the beauty of the two themes from the Fablemans). 
    And Indy 5 has great themes, but is a very uneven score because of the copy-pasting. 
  17. Thanks
    oierem got a reaction from JTN in John Williams’ First and Last Great Score   
    Jane Eyre and The Force Awakens, I would say. 
     
    I don't think TLJ and ROS are great as a whole (though they have great highlights of course).
    The Post and The Fabelmans are too small to be considered great (although I love the simplicity and the beauty of the two themes from the Fablemans). 
    And Indy 5 has great themes, but is a very uneven score because of the copy-pasting. 
  18. Like
    oierem reacted to Jay in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    That's correct, the recording dates for Childhood and Believe are not known.  I can't even recall now if it was ever figured out if they were 2001 or 2002!
     
    At one point we had this info in the liners, but maybe some of it got cut for the final version:
     
    Armin Steiner recorded all the songs (and the Smee Concertina pieces) in March & April at Fox (Newman). 
     
    Then the trailer cue was recorded in June by Shawn Murphy at Sony (Streisand). 
     
    Then the bulk of the score was recorded by Shawn Murphy at Sony in October.  October 26th was the final day of the main scoring sessions, and after a double-day of recording the score, Williams went over to Fox to record an evening session (back with Steiner) for the solo piano pieces that lead into We Don't Wanna Grow Up, as well as the first version of Banning Back Home.
     
    The OST album was assembled and mastered at this point.
     
    On November 2nd, Williams was was back at Fox with Steiner, to record God Rest Ye, Merry Gentlemen.
     
    November 9th was another double-day of recording the rest of the score with Murphy (all the cues that hadn't been recorded at all yet, as well as the final set of inserts/revisions).
     
    On November 13th, the revised version of Banning Back Home was recorded by Murphy at Sony.
     
     
    So two fun trivia bits are that each version of Banning Back Home was recorded in a completely different room by a completely different recording engineer from one another, and music from two separate rooms is combined in the track "Pick 'Em Up"
  19. Like
    oierem reacted to mrbellamy in John Williams’ First and Last Great Score   
    I think the earliest I would personally go is Jane Eyre and the latest is The Force Awakens.
     
    I don't know the 60s stuff well enough to really argue their greatness though I have heard a bunch and have my favorites. I dig Checkmate most, I can appreciate there are consensus picks like How to Steal a Million or The Reivers, but Jane Eyre is the earliest to really hit me in the John Williams. 
     
    2001 with AI or Harry Potter feels like the furthest back anybody could go for their latest pick before I'd give them the stink eye. Prisoner of Azkaban still feels like my most recent benchmark for everything I want from a Williams score, at least on that scale, while I would say Force Awakens is the latest to compel me as an overall piece, rather than just enjoying the many highlights. 
  20. Like
    oierem reacted to Schilkeman in Rank The Indiana Jones Films   
    Some ageist nonsense going on in this thread, but anyway, here are some things I like about KotCS:
     
    The Cold War setting - this time period of American history is fascinating to me. The dial is cranked up a bit on the Rockwell device, but he captures the vibe well
     
    Mutt Williams - whatever his personal failings, I’ve always liked Shia the actor. He plays the wannabe punk kid well, and I like the reverse dynamic of Indy now being the dad.
     
    Marion Ravenwood - There may have been a lot of Marys, but Indy only has one true love. He finally chooses wisely, and goes off to enjoy the rest of his life. 
     
    The Structure - we start in a warehouse and end in the jungles of South America. A nice reverse of the first film.
     
    The Cinematography - I know this one’s divisive , but I’ve always loved Kaminski’s work. I think this movie looks great.
     
    The Music - I really don’t know why everyone seems so down on this score. The Skull motif and Irina’s Theme are great, Mutt’s theme is clever, and the action writing is as good as ever. 
     
    Irina Spalko - she’s a Bond villain, and they didn’t resort to making her a femme fatal. 

    The McGuffin - this includes the aliens. I like when they can weave mythology into actual history, which I find lacking in ToD. Where Star Wars is mythology acting as history, Indiana Jones is history acting as mythology. Two sides of the same coin.
     
    Is it Art? - I always found a striking similarity between the mushroom cloud and the departing ship. If knowledge is indeed a treasure, maybe we could be putting ours to better use?
     
    Action - I like the whole opening in the warehouse, the motorcycle chase (another reverse), the graveyard sequence, the water fall sequence, and most of the jungle chase. The special effects for the bomb sequence, the temple opening, and the departure of the ship are also great.
     
    The Little Things - Indy’s face when he hears the countdown start. “Rough couple of years, huh?” Dip the comb in the soda. The unnecessary viciousness of the fight in the diner. “Oh so you’re a teacher” reverse shot. Pointing during the pointing scene. “Bullshit, Pancho Villa?” “Depends on who your god is.” “Help!” “I’m ready. Don’t give these pigs a thing.” The way Marion smiles when Indy says “they weren’t you.” 
     
    A Perfect Coda - yes this is a “just one more thing” adventure, but I think it was made by people who realized life doesn’t stop when you turn 40. The adventure continues, and life does not stop giving us things.
     
     
     
  21. Like
    oierem reacted to Jay in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    Pieces of four different takes made up the final performance edit used in the actual teaser trailer, and that performance edit was re-created digitally by Armin Steiner in 1991 for the OST album's digital master.  "Prologue" on the new set is Mike re-creating the same performance edit from the 1st gen material.
     
    "Prologue (Extended Version)" is a new performance edit Mike made using just 2 of those 4 takes, with the goal of showcasing two ideas performed on some takes that didn't make it into the final performance edit: the extra viola rendition of Peter Pan's theme, and the extra boom-tzz near the end.  The entire track is 100% a different performance from "Prologue". 
     
    I think the name was chosen because technically adding in the viola passage makes it longer, and also the 2012 release already had a track called "Prologue (Alternate)".  We didn't want people to expect this track to be the same as that (that track was just the final take all on its own with no cuts to other takes).
     
    It isn't known why that viola rendition of Peter Pan's theme was only performed on the final take.  There's no reason to believe there were multiple edits of the footage or anything.
  22. Like
    oierem reacted to Yavar Moradi in Quartet Announces: HEIDI/ JANE EYRE (2CD)(John Williams) Remastered and Expanded   
    Ok, I dug through old email drafts and found the following fragmentary work. That is, I came up with timestamps for every cue based on watching the film, but at least on the version I was able to find (again this was almost half a decade ago) I didn’t have a title or description for every cue. But for those who find the breakdown useful, here’s what I can share based on watching the film:
     
    Pieces recorded for the album only which do not appear in the film: Love Theme from Jane Eyre (track 1, concert arrangement), To Thornfield (track 4, unused action scherzo), Festivity at Thornfield (track 5, unused original party source music), Meeting (track 7, chamber arrangement of love theme), Restoration (track 10, album/concert arrangement of music for St. John)
     
    0:03-4:14 1. Main Title (Overture) 4:12
    (album recording track 2, 3:58)
    Album recording seems more tightly performed at times; film recording has an ugly edit at 2:51.
    First half minute introduces the mysterious long-lined (over 20 notes!) Rochester theme on harpsichord (most prominent in the album action cue To Thornfield), followed by an even more mysterious and ominous theme for the mystery of Thornfield itself led by a 7 note motif 29 sec in (25 of album recording), as the title “Jane Eyre” appears onscreen.
    At 1:04 (0:58 of album) a strident related motif grows out of this. Pay attention to how much Williams is doing with counterpoint here.
    At 1:35 (1:28 of album) the love theme is introduced, sounds as if it were something of a love child between a couple of themes in Nino Rita’s beloved score for Franco Zefirelli’s Romeo and Juliet a couple years before
    Around 2:11 (2:06 of album) love theme transitions to a bridge melody
    At 2:30 (2:26 of album) the strident 1:04-1:35 material returns. Ugly edit/cut at 2:51, equivalent to 2:47-2:52 on album, right before return of 7 note mysterious Thornfield motif, and then back to a more subdued version of strident motif, and back to the Thornfield motif again as the cue winds down.
     
    6:28-9:04 2. Deceitful
    “Let’s see who it is...” begins cue
     
    9:56-10:54 3. Lowood
    (album recording track 3, 2:28)
    Film cue initially mixed so low you can barely tell it's there, and the cue cuts off abruptly just before a minute in.
    A new mysterious theme is introduced here, more subtle than any of the themes introduced in the Main Title.
     
    12:44-14:37 4. Relics of Satan
    Hair forcibly cut, punished
     
    17:57-19:04 5. Forever and Ever
    Childhood friend's death, and passing of time.
     
    20:14-21:01 6. Thornfield
    Thornfield theme (2nd theme from Main Title) given further development as Jane approaches the manor.
     
    24:44-25:27 7. Laughter
    Mysterious (almost horror) music with the Thornfield theme developed over threatening strings.
     
    27:23-29:55 8. The Meeting
    First different development of main theme; good candidate to mention in podcast
     
    33:16-33:56 9. Jane Plays
    The love theme played in-scene on solo piano by Jane.
     
    35:06-36:03 10. Good Night
    Further development of the main theme for Jane, and then the mysterious Thornfield theme.
     
    41:39-42:14 11. Good Night
    Threatening development of the Thornfield theme.
     
    44:11-44:36 12. The Fire
    Another horror cue with the Thornfield theme.
     
    46:17-47:42 13. Do Me Good
    Brief Thornfield mystery, then first proper appearance of the love theme on harpsichord, and then strings.
     
    48:29-50:02 14. Flowers
    Love theme on woodwind, gets more intense near end.
     
    51:14-53:29 First Dance
    53:39-53:52 Second Dance
    56:14-57:18 Youth's the Season Made for Joys (song from The Beggar's Opera)
    57:30-58:41 Piano Source
     
    59:54-62:21 15. Mason's Arrival
    63:11-66:10 16. She Bit Me
    68:58-71:08 17.
    72:26-73:30 18. The Veil
    74:30-75:50 19. 
    76:05-79:15 20. 
    82:50-85:09 21. She Still Lives
    85:45-88:17 22. Jane Leaves
     
    89:23-91:06 23. St. John
    Shorter film cue used as basis for album "Restoration"; brief interlude for Jane/Rochester love theme as Jane remembers.
     
    92:51-94:18 24. I Accept
    Second shorter film cue with St. John's theme, this time with a brief interlude with the mysterious Thornfield motive as her letter is returned, transitioning immediately afterwards to another in-film solo piano performance by Jane of her love theme with Rochester.
     
    99:37-100:59 25. God Alone
    101:15-102:37 26. The Tragedy
     
    102:37-107:58 27. Reunion (End Title)
    Longer version of album cue (which starts at 103:16 and still seems to run shorter on album).
     

     
    I’ll bet Williams also wrote and originally recorded some music that got dialed out of the film.
     
    Yavar
  23. Like
    oierem got a reaction from Brando in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    It's fascinating that Williams actually remembers and/or cares about such small details.
     
    That being said, I will probably switch those cues, as I prefer to have the actual film verion on the main program. 
  24. Like
    oierem got a reaction from Tydirium in HOOK Ultimate Edition - MUSIC Discussion   
    It's fascinating that Williams actually remembers and/or cares about such small details.
     
    That being said, I will probably switch those cues, as I prefer to have the actual film verion on the main program. 
  25. Haha
    oierem reacted to Edmilson in Will JW score the Rey Skywalker movie?   
    If JWFan existed in 1980:
     
    "This Empire Strikes Back score is so disappointing! Yoda's theme is laughable, the action music is so unfocused and chaotic compared to Star Wars! And why the hell did he write a theme for Darth Vader? He already had a theme in SW! He should retire after such a massively disappointing score."
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