oierem

If you’re preaching, I’m the choir. Kali Ma Shakti De. 
 
I fucking LOVE everything about this movie.  I love that it doesn’t try to be Raiders the way TLC does.   If you told me this is when Spielberg and Lucas were snorting a lot of coke, I’d believe you, because this movie is off the rails crazy and it just doesn’t care. 
 
Ford was at his peak here, both physically and coolness.  Short Round and Willie are us, the audience.  Shorty being the brave kid in us who would like to go on an adventure with Jones, Willie being the reality of how we’d actually react if we were there.  That’s why this dynamic never feels forced or bloated.  It’s a tight trio and we can identify with them. 
 
Happiest ending of any of them. Nice character arc for Jones, who starts off essentially as a bit of a Helena Shaw, seeking fortune and glory, but then coming around to understand the significance. He does indeed become a true believer. 
 
Love the contrast between the darkness of Pankot and the bright sunlight of the end act. The tension in the rope bridge scene… there’s just nothing like that in any of the other films. 

John Williams ended his era of perfection with this grand finale of musical fireworks. 
 
This movie is my happy place. 

Well, @Tydirium and @Falstaft, I think you've convinced me regarding "Tuk Tuk Chase." Thanks for the explanations! Based on everything said above, I guess the most likely situation has to be temp track emulation (hard for me to imagine Williams or Ross deciding on their own to quote music from, e.g., AOTC...).
 
I fully agree with @oierem that this is all incredibly perplexing -- it's so bizarre to imagine Williams and/or Ross digging through old scores to try to match the temp track, with slight alterations. I think that was part of what initially led me to assume many of the "quotes" might be unintentional: the alternative (that someone actually took the effort to look at old scores, even non-IJ ones) seemed really strange. As noted in posts above, copying bars from other scores isn't all that unusual, but the way it was apparently done here is. E.g., in Rise of Skywalker, I recall that music editor Ramiro Belgardt suggested using a Yoda and the Force excerpt in the scene with Luke's ghost, so JW asked someone to find the original TESB sheet music and they just copied it exactly. The process here must have been quite different.

Yes, but that's still baffling because it's not tracked music. It's newly recorded. Which means, once Williams / Ross is given the tempt-track, he goes through the old scores, searching for those couple of bars that the editor has chosen, which don't fit musically with anything before or after, and just copy-paste them, with slight and seemingly-random differences ("let's just add a cymbal crash for the sake of it"). The result is something almost impossible to conduct, or even play, and yet they do it. Why? Isn't is easier just to track music? 
 
Again, if those copy-pasted cues came from a single source, that would be more logical. A good example is the "Cornish Pixies" music from Chamber of Secrets. It's a copy-paste/expansion on a cue from PS. But it's musically coherent, and it works well. It's based on an existing cue, but it's adapted to the new scene. Ok, fine.
 
But a cue made up of dozens of previous cues, randomly chosen, and often just a couple of bars... I don't know, I can't imagine why they bother, because it's too complicated and the result is just not good.

Having listened to the full Isolated Score, I still find some of the copy-pasted sections hard to listen to on their own: they sound jarring, and unnatural (I don't know how Williams was able to conduct some of these), and I find myself trying to identify every small segment before it jumps to another. 
I'm OK with taking an idea from a previous score and expanding it (Spiders from MR or The Duel from Tintin). I can even accept taking a big chunk from a previous score and copy-pasting it (Belly of the Steal Beast or On The Tank). But I just can't stand the almost-random usage of a couple of bars from a previous score pasted together with another couple of bars from another score (and on and on)... It doesn't sound good, it doesn't sound musical.
 
On the other hand, the score is wonderful in many other areas: the variations on Helena's theme, the new Nazi themes and, particularly, the Dial and Archimides themes are lovely, exotic and unique.
 
It's definitely a mixed bag, this one.

It's definitely a technical mistake and not an artistic decision.  The percentage that it is too slow by, is EXACTLY the same percent difference as 44.1khz compared to 48khz.  So what seemingly happened is that a performance edit of the trailer music was saved digitally at 48khz, then half a year later when it was decided it was going on the album, that digital transfer was converted incorrectly to 44.1khz and somehow nobody noticed.
 
It was a super busy time of year (October 1991) for everyone involved.  Williams would have been thinking about the rest of the music he had to write and record for Hook, as well as the to-picture cues for JFK he had to write and record, with Sony Pictures wanting Hook in theaters by December 11th, Warner Pictures wanting JFK in theaters by December 20th, Epic Records wanting the Hook soundtrack in stores by November 26, and Elektra Records wanting the JFK album in stores by whenever that came out.  So it's no wonder there was no time to write and record Hook concert arrangements, or that a technical transferring mistake made its way onto the final product.
 
Luckily, the rebuild of the original soundtrack album that Mike did in 2021 for the film's 30th anniversary has "Prologue" at the correct speed, and it is of course correct on the Ultimate Edition as well.
 
Maybe someday Sony Music will replace the version of the OST album on streaming / digital stores with Mike's rebuild, but they haven't yet!
 
 
 
Well one reason would be that it plays at correct pitch in the actual trailer, and in-between pitches in the OST version.
 
Another reason would be that the bonus track "Prologue (Alternate)" on the 2012 set (which is one of the 4 raw takes used for the final performance edit presented on its own) plays at the correct speed, while "Prologue" on that set does not (because it was taken from the album master)
 
Another reason would that, well, I worked on the new album and can tell you when Mike got everything, of course it was at the same speed as you hear in the actual trailer and that bonus track, for all the reasons laid out above. 
 
The OST speed is a technical mistake, definitively confirmed.

I just realized HOOK wasn't in this thread
 
1 Prologue (1:31)
Hook Trailer [incorrect speed on all editions until the Mondo rebuild] 2 We Don't Wanna Grow Up (1:50)
0:00-0:48 • 1M2 Peter's Entrance [edited] 0:48-end • 1M3 We Don't Wanna Grow Up 3 Banning Back Home (2:22)
1M4 Yuppie Sounds [edited] 4 Granny Wendy (2:57)
0:00-0:46 • 4M2 Forgotten How To Fly 0:46-end • 2M1 Wendy's Entrance 5 Hook-Napped (3:56)
0:00-1:59 • 4M1 Hook Is Back 1:59-end • 3M3 Hook Returns To Kensington 6 The Arrival Of Tink And The Flight To Neverland (5:56)
0:00-3:27 • 4M4 The Arrival of Tink 3:27-end • 4M5/5M1 I Don't Believe In Fairies! 7 Presenting The Hook (2:58)
0:00-1:22 • 5M2 Arrival At Neverland 1:22-end • 5M5 Show Us Your Hook 8 From Mermaids To Lost Boys (4:24)
0:00-1:12 • 6M5/7M1 The Mermaids 1:12-3:08 • 7M2 To Neverland [no choir overlay] 3:08-end • 7M3 Lost Boys Appear 9 The Lost Boy Chase (3:32)
7M5 The Lost Boys Ballet 10 Smee's Plan (1:45)
8M3 Smee Steals The Show 11 The Banquet (3:08)
9M3 The Banquet [early fade-out] 12 The Never-Feast (4:31)
0:00-2:57 • 9M4 Cornucopia 2:57-end • 9M5 Cutting The Coconut 13 Remembering Childhood (11:02)
0:00-2:44 • 11M1 The Home Run 2:44-8:24 • 12M2 I Remember [alternate take from 6:15-7:42] 8:24-end • 12M3 The Flying Sequence 14 You Are The Pan (4:00)
0:00-1:21 • 12M4 You Are The Pan 1:21-end • 7M6/8M1 The Face Of Pan 15 When You Are Alone (3:14)
10M1 When You’re Alone 16 The Ultimate War (7:53)
0:00-2:23 • 13M2 To War!!
2:23-4:40 • 13M3 Crossed Swords
4:40-end • 13M4/14M1 Form Rank
17 Farewell Neverland (10:17)
0:00-2:19 • 15M3 My Lost Boys
2:19-5:57 • 15M4 The Next Morning
5:57-end • 15M5/16M1 Kensington Gardens

The original OST album wasn't a masterpiece of album programming though.  It's a mostly chronological, mostly unedited assembly of cues that happened to have been recorded already when they had to lock a program in order for the album to be in stores the same week as the film, with no concert arrangements or anything specially recorded just for it, and one entire track playing at the wrong speed. 
 
It's very clear to me that if schedules had been different, some of the arrangements we eventually got on the Williams/Spielberg CD probably would have been recorded at the film's scoring sessions, and the OST album would have come out different than it is, certainly including some of the music that hadn't been recorded yet like the climax of the score.
 
The new LLL main program and Disc 3 program are assembled with love and care and are approved by John Williams.

It’s such a random situation, because they have the “On the Conveyer Belt” type music which then goes into a lovely quote of Helena’s Theme in that same style. They’ve basically copied and pasted a cue from another film, but then they’ve taken the time to adapt a cue from a film into it… which seems far more complicated.

I agree with that. I don't like to "spoil" the score by placing the final/concert/end-credits version of the main theme at the beginning. 
 
That being said, what's your opinion about the "Prologue" from Hook? In a way, it's a spoilery track, and it doesn't belong to the opening of the film. On the other hand, it was composed for the teaser, and the beginning is just magical. So I don't know about my playlist yet.

Having listened to the full Isolated Score, I still find some of the copy-pasted sections hard to listen to on their own: they sound jarring, and unnatural (I don't know how Williams was able to conduct some of these), and I find myself trying to identify every small segment before it jumps to another. 
I'm OK with taking an idea from a previous score and expanding it (Spiders from MR or The Duel from Tintin). I can even accept taking a big chunk from a previous score and copy-pasting it (Belly of the Steal Beast or On The Tank). But I just can't stand the almost-random usage of a couple of bars from a previous score pasted together with another couple of bars from another score (and on and on)... It doesn't sound good, it doesn't sound musical.
 
On the other hand, the score is wonderful in many other areas: the variations on Helena's theme, the new Nazi themes and, particularly, the Dial and Archimides themes are lovely, exotic and unique.
 
It's definitely a mixed bag, this one.

That's one thing. But many of the cues of DoD are not just that. They literally copy/paste bars from previous scores, lifting and juxtaposing cues that have nothing in common, in a rather unnatural way, I might add. It's more than concious: it's the equivalent of parts of Chamber of Secrets being copy/pasted from the previous score. 

Having listened to the full Isolated Score, I still find some of the copy-pasted sections hard to listen to on their own: they sound jarring, and unnatural (I don't know how Williams was able to conduct some of these), and I find myself trying to identify every small segment before it jumps to another. 
I'm OK with taking an idea from a previous score and expanding it (Spiders from MR or The Duel from Tintin). I can even accept taking a big chunk from a previous score and copy-pasting it (Belly of the Steal Beast or On The Tank). But I just can't stand the almost-random usage of a couple of bars from a previous score pasted together with another couple of bars from another score (and on and on)... It doesn't sound good, it doesn't sound musical.
 
On the other hand, the score is wonderful in many other areas: the variations on Helena's theme, the new Nazi themes and, particularly, the Dial and Archimides themes are lovely, exotic and unique.
 
It's definitely a mixed bag, this one.

Yes, but that's still baffling because it's not tracked music. It's newly recorded. Which means, once Williams / Ross is given the tempt-track, he goes through the old scores, searching for those couple of bars that the editor has chosen, which don't fit musically with anything before or after, and just copy-paste them, with slight and seemingly-random differences ("let's just add a cymbal crash for the sake of it"). The result is something almost impossible to conduct, or even play, and yet they do it. Why? Isn't is easier just to track music? 
 
Again, if those copy-pasted cues came from a single source, that would be more logical. A good example is the "Cornish Pixies" music from Chamber of Secrets. It's a copy-paste/expansion on a cue from PS. But it's musically coherent, and it works well. It's based on an existing cue, but it's adapted to the new scene. Ok, fine.
 
But a cue made up of dozens of previous cues, randomly chosen, and often just a couple of bars... I don't know, I can't imagine why they bother, because it's too complicated and the result is just not good.

Yes, but that's still baffling because it's not tracked music. It's newly recorded. Which means, once Williams / Ross is given the tempt-track, he goes through the old scores, searching for those couple of bars that the editor has chosen, which don't fit musically with anything before or after, and just copy-paste them, with slight and seemingly-random differences ("let's just add a cymbal crash for the sake of it"). The result is something almost impossible to conduct, or even play, and yet they do it. Why? Isn't is easier just to track music? 
 
Again, if those copy-pasted cues came from a single source, that would be more logical. A good example is the "Cornish Pixies" music from Chamber of Secrets. It's a copy-paste/expansion on a cue from PS. But it's musically coherent, and it works well. It's based on an existing cue, but it's adapted to the new scene. Ok, fine.
 
But a cue made up of dozens of previous cues, randomly chosen, and often just a couple of bars... I don't know, I can't imagine why they bother, because it's too complicated and the result is just not good.

In the old days there used to be overtures of the score before the movie even started. Then came the opening titles presenting the main theme. Then the movie started with whatever. But later the movie makers decided, it was cooler to start directly the movie with some mysterious low music. 
Maybe composers like Williams miss that appreciation of their music and put from time to time the main theme as some kind of overture at the beginning of their soundtrack album.
I find that ok for an OST. But at a C&C presentation I like, when the album starts like the movie.

Yes, but that's still baffling because it's not tracked music. It's newly recorded. Which means, once Williams / Ross is given the tempt-track, he goes through the old scores, searching for those couple of bars that the editor has chosen, which don't fit musically with anything before or after, and just copy-paste them, with slight and seemingly-random differences ("let's just add a cymbal crash for the sake of it"). The result is something almost impossible to conduct, or even play, and yet they do it. Why? Isn't is easier just to track music? 
 
Again, if those copy-pasted cues came from a single source, that would be more logical. A good example is the "Cornish Pixies" music from Chamber of Secrets. It's a copy-paste/expansion on a cue from PS. But it's musically coherent, and it works well. It's based on an existing cue, but it's adapted to the new scene. Ok, fine.
 
But a cue made up of dozens of previous cues, randomly chosen, and often just a couple of bars... I don't know, I can't imagine why they bother, because it's too complicated and the result is just not good.

Yes, but that's still baffling because it's not tracked music. It's newly recorded. Which means, once Williams / Ross is given the tempt-track, he goes through the old scores, searching for those couple of bars that the editor has chosen, which don't fit musically with anything before or after, and just copy-paste them, with slight and seemingly-random differences ("let's just add a cymbal crash for the sake of it"). The result is something almost impossible to conduct, or even play, and yet they do it. Why? Isn't is easier just to track music? 
 
Again, if those copy-pasted cues came from a single source, that would be more logical. A good example is the "Cornish Pixies" music from Chamber of Secrets. It's a copy-paste/expansion on a cue from PS. But it's musically coherent, and it works well. It's based on an existing cue, but it's adapted to the new scene. Ok, fine.
 
But a cue made up of dozens of previous cues, randomly chosen, and often just a couple of bars... I don't know, I can't imagine why they bother, because it's too complicated and the result is just not good.

Yes, but that's still baffling because it's not tracked music. It's newly recorded. Which means, once Williams / Ross is given the tempt-track, he goes through the old scores, searching for those couple of bars that the editor has chosen, which don't fit musically with anything before or after, and just copy-paste them, with slight and seemingly-random differences ("let's just add a cymbal crash for the sake of it"). The result is something almost impossible to conduct, or even play, and yet they do it. Why? Isn't is easier just to track music? 
 
Again, if those copy-pasted cues came from a single source, that would be more logical. A good example is the "Cornish Pixies" music from Chamber of Secrets. It's a copy-paste/expansion on a cue from PS. But it's musically coherent, and it works well. It's based on an existing cue, but it's adapted to the new scene. Ok, fine.
 
But a cue made up of dozens of previous cues, randomly chosen, and often just a couple of bars... I don't know, I can't imagine why they bother, because it's too complicated and the result is just not good.

yeah
 
to me, The Lost World score starts with The Island's Voice. (which it does). I can see the argument against that, but my sensibilities also prevent me from things such as "play the Raider's march at the beginning of Raiders instead of the mysterious jungle opening" and it's the same logic that makes E.T. start with weird sounds instead of a musical spoiler (i see you reedited version of the movie).

Yes, but that's still baffling because it's not tracked music. It's newly recorded. Which means, once Williams / Ross is given the tempt-track, he goes through the old scores, searching for those couple of bars that the editor has chosen, which don't fit musically with anything before or after, and just copy-paste them, with slight and seemingly-random differences ("let's just add a cymbal crash for the sake of it"). The result is something almost impossible to conduct, or even play, and yet they do it. Why? Isn't is easier just to track music? 
 
Again, if those copy-pasted cues came from a single source, that would be more logical. A good example is the "Cornish Pixies" music from Chamber of Secrets. It's a copy-paste/expansion on a cue from PS. But it's musically coherent, and it works well. It's based on an existing cue, but it's adapted to the new scene. Ok, fine.
 
But a cue made up of dozens of previous cues, randomly chosen, and often just a couple of bars... I don't know, I can't imagine why they bother, because it's too complicated and the result is just not good.

Listening will answer many questions.

The liner notes will answer many more.
 
The various upcoming podcast episodes will answer even more.
 
Lots of discussions to be had about this masterpiece in the coming months!

Having listened to the full Isolated Score, I still find some of the copy-pasted sections hard to listen to on their own: they sound jarring, and unnatural (I don't know how Williams was able to conduct some of these), and I find myself trying to identify every small segment before it jumps to another. 
I'm OK with taking an idea from a previous score and expanding it (Spiders from MR or The Duel from Tintin). I can even accept taking a big chunk from a previous score and copy-pasting it (Belly of the Steal Beast or On The Tank). But I just can't stand the almost-random usage of a couple of bars from a previous score pasted together with another couple of bars from another score (and on and on)... It doesn't sound good, it doesn't sound musical.
 
On the other hand, the score is wonderful in many other areas: the variations on Helena's theme, the new Nazi themes and, particularly, the Dial and Archimides themes are lovely, exotic and unique.
 
It's definitely a mixed bag, this one.

Having listened to the full Isolated Score, I still find some of the copy-pasted sections hard to listen to on their own: they sound jarring, and unnatural (I don't know how Williams was able to conduct some of these), and I find myself trying to identify every small segment before it jumps to another. 
I'm OK with taking an idea from a previous score and expanding it (Spiders from MR or The Duel from Tintin). I can even accept taking a big chunk from a previous score and copy-pasting it (Belly of the Steal Beast or On The Tank). But I just can't stand the almost-random usage of a couple of bars from a previous score pasted together with another couple of bars from another score (and on and on)... It doesn't sound good, it doesn't sound musical.
 
On the other hand, the score is wonderful in many other areas: the variations on Helena's theme, the new Nazi themes and, particularly, the Dial and Archimides themes are lovely, exotic and unique.
 
It's definitely a mixed bag, this one.

Having listened to the full Isolated Score, I still find some of the copy-pasted sections hard to listen to on their own: they sound jarring, and unnatural (I don't know how Williams was able to conduct some of these), and I find myself trying to identify every small segment before it jumps to another. 
I'm OK with taking an idea from a previous score and expanding it (Spiders from MR or The Duel from Tintin). I can even accept taking a big chunk from a previous score and copy-pasting it (Belly of the Steal Beast or On The Tank). But I just can't stand the almost-random usage of a couple of bars from a previous score pasted together with another couple of bars from another score (and on and on)... It doesn't sound good, it doesn't sound musical.
 
On the other hand, the score is wonderful in many other areas: the variations on Helena's theme, the new Nazi themes and, particularly, the Dial and Archimides themes are lovely, exotic and unique.
 
It's definitely a mixed bag, this one.

The second park of the tuk tuk chase (the part not on the OST) is such a jumble of music from previous scores I wouldn't be surprised at all if William Ross did that part which is why it isn't on the OST.