Adam S.
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Posts posted by Adam S.
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The Reivers is probably my favorite. It shows how good of music he could have been writing if hadn't been pigeonholed into slight comedies. Heidi has some nice music. The 60s comedies are interesting in the sense that he throws out a lot of different musical ideas. They're actually very rich scores musically in his development of different melodies and ideas but just so cheesy that its easy to not notice. The theme that Roald mentions is a highlight as well.
- Adam
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I thought the alternate main title was really written for the The Cowboys trailer and probably temptracked with Berstein's Magnificent Seven. That would explain why it is so different. He either did it before he developed any of the material for his score or he did it with allegiance to the temptrack, knowing it wasn't necessary to connect it to his score.
- Adam
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If he could do it over I wonder if he would have prioritized writing more original underscore instead of so many fully developed concert themes. I get the feeling he originally wanted those pieces to be adapted by Ross to the movie but when he realized how that wasn't going to work he was left making clumsy adaptations form the first Harry Potter score and even Attack of the Clones. The result is a some great concert tracks but some embarassing underscore that doesn't live up to his usual standards. Still, what original underscore there is, is very good.
- Adam
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There's an evolution in his sound overall but, then again, something like Missouri Breaks is completely different stylistically than Star Wars which was written about a year later. You have to really know JW to even know that they're the same person. I know JW has said he doesn't have a style which is my way of thinking about it as well. His technique has evolved but if he does a completely different project the scores can be about as different stylistically as can be while still being the same person. Presumed Innocent compared to Home Alone in the same year for example and there's very little stylistically in common with the two though, again, there's a kind of abstract voice or technique that he brings to the table that we recognize if we've heard a lot of music. The style comes into the equation for me if we're talking about his big orchestral scores which tend to share more in common with eachother.
- Adam
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The tracks for American Journey were written for a documentary so there might have been a temp track. There's a theme that sounds a lot like the Patriot and Amistad and they all play more or less the same role in their respective films so the similarity was probably just an accident in that case. All 3 themes were written to feel very American and patriotic with the protagonists yearning for freedom in their films (the theme builds upwards in the similar way in each case and back down). They're also different in ways that are interesting to me and reflect their films but I won't get into that.
- Adam
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The poll isn't explictly laid out like I said - that's true. But that's been the gist of the discussion and a reasonable inference from the results. My only point is the gap between the certainty by some that he's worse and the results which seem to suggest its far from obvious, whatever one's point of view.
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Its interesting that for some people his decline is so completely obvious because, so far, 65% of the people answering seem to think he's just as good. Maybe he's not only declining but he's developed the craven ability to trick a majority of his fan base.
- Adam
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Ballet is dance buddy. That's like saying going to a symphony without instruments would suck.
No sh*t Sherlock.
But simplicity aside, your argument still holds no water, because you forget two things. One, there was dance long before there was music. And two, the Nutcracker is not a story-driven ballet. Try something like La Bayadere and tell me the same thing.
First of all, my analogy is obvious regardless of your final point though I can understand why you would rather nitpick it. I said that this is an extreme example (dancing) but that the principle still holds for the reasons that are pretty clear but that you didn't deal with at all. Its no coincidence that JW often talks about his music providing a "balletic" effect for a scene. Lots of action scenes are like choreography with music providing a very crucial role in giving scenes their energy and kinetic pull. Another obvious example would watching the scene where ET flies - without music it would just lie there dead on the screen. I don't even consider this that controversial. We're not able to dial out music but take something like what the Boston Pops did, where they dialed out the music for the Barrel Chase scene and then played it again with the music and this point becomes pretty clear IMO.
- Adam
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Actually, I should be more precise and say that The Nutcracker directed in the same way to not have music would be bad direction because ballet needs music and people would be bored watching people hop around without music. However, its good direction in so far as it recognizes the need for music and uses it appropriately. The same goes for films. If Speilberg wanted to make ET without music, the way he did in 1982 it would be poorly directed as the final 15 minutes (more than that actually) would feel bizarre and make the audience uncomfortable but its brilliantly directed from the point of view that he reocgnized on some level the role music would eventually play.
- Adam
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding some of the points but it seems to me if we went to see the Nutcracker Ballet without music it wouldn't be a very good experience. Sure the dancing and direction would still be great but it would be a very incomplete experience. That's an extreme example but its the same principle for some films. Sure, a lot of scenes would hold up without music or would simply be experienced in a different way. But something like the finale to ET would be downright strange to watch without music playing for the final 15 minutes. It would feel naked or awkward or something. Those are the kind of examples I'm talking about.
- Adam
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I've always wanted JW to do an animated film as well and Pixar would be particularly good. I somehow doubt it though.
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I liked this a lot. Animation was incredible. It bogged down a little bit in the middle I thought but the initial scenes on earth were amazing in terms of the extent to which they humanized the robot and established such a unique feel to his world. The music was good - not particularly ambitious - but effective enough. The kind of film that left a lasting impression with me in a way that most animated films don't.
- Adam
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I'm probably rephrasing somewhat what was just said but the last 15 minutes of ET is wonderfully directed and, yet, completely flat without music or, I would imagine, inferior music. I think Speilberg's ability to direct scenes in a very musical kind of way (particularly earlier in his career) is one of the things that is rarely appreciated among critics who write about his career. In the right kind of film, that kind of approach and with the collaboration of Williams, can allow his films to be so much more ambitious in terms of where it takes the audience. But that's a hard thing to pull off because the film has to stand on its own in terms of the acting and the production value and, yet, has to feel very incomplete sometimes with a director having the confidence that the music will tie things together. Jaws is another example where Speilberg, seemingly intuitively, directed the action in a very musical way. Its great direction and, yet, completely flat and that's not a contradiction. That was one of the things the Boston Pops did at least once, showing a shark attack sequence without music and then, again, with music just to highlight the contrast.
- Adam
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There's also a theme that suggests the devil at work - an 8 note repeating, descending, primitive sounding piece that is in several scenes in the movie and unrepresented on the soundtrack.
- Adam
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97% on RottenTomatoes is almost unheard of as well. I'm going to see it tomorrow hopefully.
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I don't see JW scoring Harry Potter againt. I'd say if the choice was him scoring this or doing nothing, I'd want him to score it. If its something completely new or Deathly Hollows, I'd want him to score something new.
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In evaluating the quality of a film score, each of us -- depending upon personal penchance, perspective, and proficiency -- tends to place different emphases on various overlapping and interdependent criteria, among which are "craft" (the way in which the score complements its film), "art" (melody, harmony, rhythm, timbre, and so on), and "entertainment" (the overall satisfaction one derives from the stand-alone listening experience). In doing so, we often talk past one another as well as underestimate the degree to which multiple factors interact to influence our response to a score.
Once again, Adam asks us to think hard about the context in which a particular score is produced -- a valid consideration that may seem irrelevant to one who focuses more on the "art" or "entertainment" criteria but is nonetheless incumbent upon anyone making claims about the waxing or waning of a composer's talent. For instance, the inevitable loss of valuable brain cells (and resulting decline in cognitive performance) as a composer ages is not exclusive of the possible existence of working conditions increasingly hostile to creativity and dramatic coherence. Adam also urges us to take into account the context in which a particular score is heard and apprehended. Whatever the listener brings to the table is as important as whatever the composer has brought to the table.
I do have to take issue with a few of the things Adam mentions. The nostalgia card should be played sparingly. Any objection to perceived changes in style can be easily derided as a blind kowtow to nostalgia's whims, but such a presumption, warranted or not, merely short-circuits the conversation. In addition, point B doesn't really speak to those of us who find Williams's work for the "smaller-scale and serious movies" more interesting and less problematic than his recent forays into the kind of large-canvas popcorn fare that made him a household name in the first place.
I appreciate your thoughts - very articulate as usual. Actually, I don't disagree with your final comments. I've never been one to impugn somebody's motives for liking or disliking something by saying its nostalgia. I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt just as I would hope that people would do for me. Nonetheless, as a general point I'm willing to stipulate it could be a factor for some. That sounds a little contradictory as I read that but I guess the distinction is being able to isolate certain factors in a general way but resisting the temptation to apply it in specific cases except for ourselves if appropriate for the reasons that you mentioned.
I probably should have emphasized what I said at the beginning which is that these are all "potential" mitigating factors, not meant to cover everyone by any means. Like you, I find his smaller, serious scores more interesting but my point is that to the extent that we seem to be an exception this could also be a factor in people's perceptions. Its also partly these kinds of scores that make me skeptical of some sort of decline. When I hear Becoming a Geisha with the movie, for example, there's something spectacular about the way he gets the music to marry with the scene, in addition to being so well written on its own and its hard for me to imagine how he could have done any better 20 or 30 years ago. It could be a failure of imagination on my part but I have that reaction all the time with his later scores and that's partly what informs my opinion on this subject.
- Adam
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I find that my favorite songs tend to have a kind of bittersweet quality to varying degrees. For example, If you Could Read my Mind by Gordon Lightfoot is something I listen to a lot. Recently, I rediscovered Seals and Croft. The middle section on Hummingbird is wonderful, complete with french horn and an emotive chord progression. That's also a good example of how I disect music down to the seconds, looking only for the best of the best. These are also songs I grew up hearing my parents listen to so there's a nostalgia factor as well.
- Adam
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Star of Bethleham, full choir version, is probably the top with honorable mention to Dry your Tears Africa , Hymn to the Fallen and Dark Side Beckons
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I think there are several factors that potentially distort our perception.
A. Movies have changed; the way they are edited and directed has a big effect on the musical approach he takes. Its also safe to assume that the expectations that directors have on the music has changed
B. The types of movies he has done have changed; obviously he has done a lot more smaller-scale and serious movies in the latter half of his career, movies that his core group of fans are less interested in I think its safe to say as a generalization and, at any rate, often require a more introverted approach.
C. We’ve changed. We rarely factor in how our own tastes have evolved, how nostalgia could play a role, how are interest may have waned over the years, etc. And yet these are bound to be factors to varying degrees.
D. He’s written so much music and we’ve heard so much music that very little is gong to sound completely original. Its easy to hold him to an unfair standard, like he has to completely invent a new sound or we’re reminded of past scores and that is going to give the impression of less creativity. Related to that, he’s had to do lots of sequel scores which lend themselves to having to work within the same sound, retread similar ideas and so forth.
But to the extent his sound has changed independent of all of this I don’t really find it less creative or less talented and I think its precisely because of that consistency of approach that JW calls it a "happy accident" if people also like the music on its own. And I’m much more struck by this consistency in approach than I am by the evolution in his sound - something which gets slightly exaggerated IMO.
- Adam
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Very nice. I like some of the subtle changes in harmonics from the original.
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I prefer Victory Celebration as a listening experience. Each one is more appropriate, IMO, for their respective movies, though. With the added scenes of the special edition Victory Celebration has more of a feeling of a galactic Kumbaya.
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So?
*Splutters tea all over the place*
Coming from you?!!!
I thought about commenting on that as well. I hope Josh500 isn't implying, even leaving aside the hypocricy, that our posts need to have some larger cosmic significance as that would surely spell the death of JWFan.com.
- Adam
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I love all the cues with the Ark Theme (EDIT : Wow, what John just said). The theme manages to sound Biblical with its religious character and the sense that its harkening back to something ancient. Also can somehow convey danger and allure at the same time. Brilliant theme with the Map Room being a highlight. Like what was said, that version of the theme has an appropriate element of "awe" as we see Indiana react that way to what he's seeing.
- Adam
John Williams To Possibly Compose Deathly Hallows Films
in General Discussion
Posted
Normally, I'm not big on JW returning to a series he has already left. But in this case, when the alternative is starting to seem like nothing at all, this is very hopeful news. Also the series has become darker and the score promises to be a very different score from his early Harry Potter scores (1 and 2) so there should be opportunity to cover some new territory in the manner that Azkaban did to a certain extent.
- Adam