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About steb74

  • Birthday 19/07/1974


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  1. Hi man, I've always found this to be an earlier presentation of it when Luke surrenders to Vader and acknowledges him as his father during their conversation. and then of course later, the glorious biblical version. There are probably more references throughout the score but I've never made much of a search or study on it to be honest. The 'Father & Son' version always popped out to me though. There's a similar figure after Yoda dies and Luke makes his way back to the X-Wing contemplating his new revelations.
  2. While I don't disagree and to be honest at the moment I do find the title to be a little lacking ....well, I suppose that I was expecting the middle film to have four words. I don't recall any of the other films having titles that were difficult to digest though and none of them ever came close to being risque or offensive.
  3. @TownerFan I can't play that clip at the minute but I'm guessing it's the audio snippet from the Rinzler SW book? It was great to finally hear Williams talking about it and expanding his thoughts a little beyond what he wrote in the original liner notes.
  4. There's something wrong if fans can't present their ideas or interpretations here of all places, I think it's a little disingenuous to start bringing out the 'silly season' nonsense. I think the Cloud City Doom motif and the Cloud City escape motif are absolutely not the same and represent two completely different ideas. Two sides of the same coin perhaps but representing two completely different sides/goals and the emotional stakes at hand for each of those sides. No-one (or I'm not) is saying that the motif literally represents the AT-ATs (the orchestration is no doubt for that) but rather what the whole purpose of the battle is about and Vader's continuing obsession in finding Luke, which does have a thematic connection to what happens on Cloud City.
  5. Sorry man, it serves myself right for trying to write something when I was in a hurry!! ha Yeah I was kind of only talking about Luke's exploits with Yoda's theme, when he's getting shot at by Boba, etc, as a lot of people still get confused by its usage there. I know where you mean now though and I guess similarly to what I was saying earlier, I feel as though at that point we as the audience have inherited the right to use Yoda's theme for protection and to aid us in our escape, we haven't quite earned it in the french horns or strings but its 'wonky' orchestration should be enough to see us through. I guess that's my interpretation of it. One of the things the special edition 'stole' from the viewer was a certain level of immersion in my opinion. The added windows and the ability to see others outside trying to escape from Cloud City took away the personal feeling of actually escaping yourself with the rest of the gang. Watching it in the cinema when it was first released made you feel like you were running behind the others and trying to escape with them, the windows became a distraction (to me at least) and reduced the feeling of being part of the team ....slight diversion sorry! ha Yeah Han and Leia are important, absolutely but I just feel their trials and tribulations are all a part of a bigger picture and are what is happening in Luke and Vader's world/tale rather than the other way round. Thank the maker that they're important enough to have such a theme!! ha Yeah I wasn't trying to imply that you meant that regarding Ben's death sorry, it was more a comment in how most people react to it. Leia is fundamental in how we should be reacting to Ben leaving us. We're first introduced to Leia via Ben's theme and then her own theme as she gives R2 his mission. Little do we know at that point it's actually for Ben (the theme) or even that there is a mission. R2 however inherits that music and from there will pass it on, first to Luke, then Luke to Ben until eventually back to Leia who will be taking the place of the man whose help she sought, musically ending the idea as we were first introduced to it. From that point when Leia is part of the gang and has replaced Ben her theme is no longer needed and is not used from that point on. That's a massive over simplification as I find it to be much more layered than that, not mentioning the other themes and motifs needed to get us there but that's more or less how it plays out for me.
  6. I understand what you're getting at and regarding Yoda's theme over the gang so to speak, for me it's as simple as we are always meant to be in Luke's shoes. When Leia is shouting ' ...it's a trap', etc, she's shouting it to 'us'. TESB is about 2 characters for me, Luke and Vader and the musical tapestry for that movie reflects that in my opinion. Yes at times we're quite intimate with the others but I always feel it's more of a case of us being a fly on the wall yet with Luke, we the audience are Luke. Now I don't feel like I'm explaining well !! ha As for your second paragraph .....I have to go out now (ughhh) but I'd love to chat about it as I not only believe the music used there is appropriate but it's the music that makes the most thematic sense. One thing though, Leia's theme plays 'after' Ben's death which is a massively important point to me ......uffff shit, gotta go!! lol
  7. When you have a master at long form writing and the material is contained in an individual work, ie: a movie ....yes, for me it's basically out of the question, even if done consciously or instinctively. Don't be expecting one note up and two notes down thematic development when it comes to Williams, it goes much deeper than that. Yoda's theme in Cloud City should be obvious ......the heroism of Luke's own theme has abandoned him for pretty much the majority of the movie, Ben and the force are unable to provide assistance. Luke and we as the audience need something else to help us make it through the trials ahead. After everything that Luke has gone through it's the only theme with enough weight and (force) power to give us the determination to help us push Luke on. As Luke becomes less afraid, he (and we) need Yoda's theme less and the force (theme) naturally finds its way back to him.
  8. Well these things are clearly there, how connected they are comes down to one's own interpretation.
  9. I think for me it's because (imo) JW's music in these movies works in two ways, one is often quite literal and that can perhaps be the orchestration, the cold and declamatory heavy piano lines representing the walkers but secondly they're only there by command of Vader and his ground assault, to kill or capture the rebels ....but really he's only interested in Luke, which for me is what the movie is about. The cloud city versions are obviously much more grave as Vader's end game is coming to fruition, again like you say it's almost a funeral procession which does literally match what we're seeing of Han's fate but also serving the overall story as the situation for everybody is dire, or at least how it appears to us at that point. Luke confronting Vader is another perfect example, the fly to the spider ....."All too easy", Vader must be licking his lips at that point! ha
  10. Oh I definitely think they're connected, it's a similarity that's never been lost on me ......plus it wouldn't make much sense for them to sound too similar in a literal way as they're almost at opposite ends of the film when things are very different. I also consider them related to what is known as the Dark Side Motif, all really part of Vader's plans, goals and obsessions. Another thing I like is what I call 'Han's quick thinking motif'. Here it is when he looks at the dead Tauntaun and realises that he can keep Luke warm in it. (about 5:40) and here when he realises it's time to get out of the space slug ...fast! (about 4:59)
  11. Yeah, there's some melodic and rhythmical bobbing and weaving that sounds reminiscent but not as blatant as The Radar Train.
  12. Well it's a pity for those who'd prefer an alternate and more expanded listening experience. It's a shame that you still begrudge others their preference, especially for an album you've been less than favourable to over the years. Hardly a surprise though.
  13. Thor, nobody cares if you don't like the score, it isn't about you. It's simply about you trying to present evidence that isn't true, everything you've offered is not musically correct. All of this rhythmic figure & variations, motif business just shows that even you don't understand either of the themes or what you're talking about in general when it comes to music. That's the issue ....go on hating, disliking the theme all you want, nobody cares.
  14. Thor, you may prefer Across The Stars, which is great, fine .......but Rey's Theme is a completely developed theme, it is not just a motif. If you can't hear and follow its development, well that's a personal shortcoming rather than a musical one. It isn't a Bernard Herrmann 'cluster of notes' , whatever that is, lol ........
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