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Posts posted by BrotherSound

  1. 50 minutes ago, Jay said:

    Are you asking which inserts the film itself uses?  That's listed in the FYC breakdown


    The film also uses the 9M85A New - Rey Looks insert, but it's not part of the FYC selections.


    1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

    Interesting, I was checking the cue list for TLJ and now I'm curious with cue 9M85 and its many revisions and inserts.

    This is definitely going to be a challenge for Mike Matessino to (hopefully) tackle one day! Some of the inserts are even written to replace parts of other inserts. We’re not certain all these variations were actually recorded, but here’s the general evolution of this sequence, from December 2016 to June 2017:




    9M85 Finale Part I




    9M85 Finale Part I [m 1–12]

    9M85 Insert 

    9M85 Finale Part I [m 57–end]




    9M85 Finale Part I [m 1-32]

    9M85 Insert 2

    9M85 Finale Part I [m 57-end]




    9M85 Finale Part I [m 1-62]

    9M85 Alt Insert

    9M85 Finale Part I [m 68-end]




    9M85 Finale Part I [m 1–12]

    9M85 Insert 

    9M85A Luke Looks

    9M85 Finale Part I [m 70-end]




    9M85 Finale Part I [m 1–12]

    9M85 Insert 

    9M85A Luke Looks [m 1-15]

    9M85B Between Luke and the March

    9M85 Finale Part I [m 72-end]




    9M85 Finale Part I [m 1–12]

    9M85 Insert

    9M85A Luke Looks [m 1-13]

    9M85C Island to March

    9M85 Finale Part I [m 70-end]




    9M85 Finale Part I [m 1–12]

    9M85 Insert 

    9M85A New - Rey Looks

    9M85 Finale Part I [m 70-end]


    Basically, several variations of the reveal of Luke’s projection were written, then several variations of Luke’s death.

  2. 1 hour ago, Remco said:

    Btw, does someone know when, at jkms for instance, they moved from handwritten parts to using music notation software? Somewhere in the 90s?

    I’m not sure exactly when the shift occurred, but Home Alone had handwritten individual parts (the original parts are actually reused for the LTP) and The Phantom Menace had parts (but not full scores, with the sole exception of Anakin’s Theme) done on computers.

  3. On 11/10/21 at 11:45 PM, crumbs said:

    That's a shame. So we have no real idea of what exists in the vaults for this score? Maybe it'll be an Eiger Sanction scenario, where an expansion reveals a treasure-trove of unreleased, unused goodies.


    Found an entry for something called “Gongs” by David Arthur Fanshawe, which is listed as used in the film in the SABAM database. Maybe this is that main title music?



  4. 11 hours ago, crumbs said:

    So based on the complete cue list here, does that mean all the music in the opening sequence of the film is not actually Williams?

    I believe that list only contains cues used for the OST and isn’t actually complete. And unfortunately, the repertoire databases don’t seem to have any cue information for this score.

  5. On 30/09/2021 at 11:26 AM, Jay said:

    That isn't correct.


    More Rescue is the scene where Luke, Han, and Chewie shoot up the prison cells control room area and take over.  It was part of "The Last Battle" on the OST and 1993 Anthology, and titled "Detention Block Ambush" on the 1997 set.


    The Rescue is the scene where stormtroopers then show up and they have to fend them off before jumping into the garbage chute.  It was part of "Rescue of the Princess" on the OST and 1993 Anthology, and titled "Shootout In The Cell Bay" on the 1997 set.


    So it's correct that More Rescue goes before The Rescue.


    Oh wow, weird! I'd convinced myself it was the other way around.



  6. On 29/09/2021 at 4:35 PM, Tallguy said:

    Are these titles right? Does "More Rescue" come before "The Rescue"?

    Nah, “The Rescue” definitely goes before “More Rescue”. Presumably “The Rescue” would really be 8M1 in the new numbering. Oops, had that wrong!


    On 29/09/2021 at 4:35 PM, Tallguy said:

    Alternates and Discrete Cues
    35. Lost R2 (Alternate) (3M2 New)

    The alternate “Lost R2” is 3M2R.

  7. 20 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

    Does anyone have any additional information about this? I'd never heard of Ernie Fosselius' Star Wars involvement until just now.


    No mention of any involvement with the music, but J.W. Rinzler's book on Return of the Jedi has this:


    “The creator of Hardware Wars (1978), the first Star Wars parody/homage, Ernie Fosselius did the voices of the two rancor keepers. Per Burtt’s direction, he channeled Laurel and Hardy.”


    Excerpt From: J.W. Rinzler. “The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (Enhanced Edition).” Random House Publishing Group, 2013. Apple Books. https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-making-of-star-wars-return-of-the-jedi-enhanced-edition/id669041848


    For what it's worth, Fosselius doesn't have any official credit for composing any of the source cues:



    Looks like this is the source of this particular rumor, but in the same article it also credits "Jedi Rocks" to both John Williams and Jerry Hey: https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-wars-the-changing-face-of-sy-snootles-the-max-rebo-band/


    But I did find a reference to him working on arranging something for RotJ in this article https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-hardware-wars-creator-doesnt-love-that-last-jedi-tribute_n_5a673fdce4b0e56300739166:


    "Fosselius said he wound up rearranging a John Williams piece in “Return of the Jedi,” too."


    Then I found this WorldCat entry, which credits John Williams, Joseph Williams, and Ernie Fosselius as arrangers for Lapti Nek: https://www.worldcat.org/title/special-extended-dance-remix-of-lapti-nek-from-original-soundtrack-recording-of-star-wars-return-of-the-jedi/oclc/61464506

  8. 2 hours ago, stravinsky said:

    Considering the score is so important in terms of film history I think it would be a great idea. However I'm so used to hearing the LSO recording from 77. Couldn't someone do a mock up with one of these virtual orchestras? Be fascinating to hear. 

    I did a rough mock of the original 5M6 a while back, or at least the part that’s different (all the rest of the cue was identical):





  9. 11 minutes ago, crumbs said:

    Very cool! So this should be a decent expansion one day. How long roughly would you say the complete score is? 


    Somewhere around 70 minutes, I'd say. One CD is probably enough, unless there's a significant amount of material missing from the sheets.


    I also just realized 'Levitation', though it oddly has no cue number attached, appears to be an insert for 'The Destruction of Daryl' and accounts for that alternate version. The OST has 11m4 as written, and the film version has a middle section replaced with 'Levitation'.

  10. On 9/5/2021 at 11:07 AM, crumbs said:

    Gotcha. And the only known alternates would be the ones that differ on album to the film?


    I see there's a cue list available.


    There's a few things missing from that cue list, including some hints at possible alternates:


    1m1 The Township of Eastwick

    2m2 It's Raining

    2m3 Darryl's Entrance

    2m4 Must Have Been Dreaming

    3m1 Dropped Flower Pot

    3m2 Shop Lady Forgets

    3m4 What's In a Name

    4m1 The Seduction of Alex

    [4m2] Dvorák No. 1

    4m2b Felicia in Hospital

    4m3a Suki Buys Flowers

    [4m4] Dvorák No. 2

    6m2 The Tennis Game

    7m2 The Seduction of Suki

    7m2 New Ending

    7m3 The Balloon Scene

    7m3 New Ending

    7m2a Felicia Flips

    8m3 Have A Cherry!

    9m1 Have Another Cherry!

    8m3 The Earth Erupts

    9m1 New - Darryl in the Rain

    10m2 The Reconciliation

    11m1 Maleficio

    10m2 Inflicting Pain

    10m1 Relief for Suki

    10m4 New - Playing in the Kitchen

    10m4-11m1 Sticking Pins

    11mAX New Start

    11m2 Darryl Chokes

    11mX "I Wish I Knew" The Wild Ride Home

    11m4 The Destruction of Darryl

    [11m4 Insert] Levitation

    [12m1] The Baby's Carousel

    [12mY] End Credits


    Also, the City of Prague recording of the Balloon Scene matches the original 7M3, without the revised ending that's on the OST and used for the Boston Pops recording. Additionally, there's also an optional alternate extended coda included in the score of the original 7M3, so there's potentially two alternates for this cue, depending on what actually got recorded.


    10m4 New - Playing in the Kitchen has previously been identified as the second half of the OST track 'Darryl Arrives', but it's much, much shorter than what's heard there, which doesn't seem to be in the sheets at all. I wonder if this was something recorded specifically for the album, especially with the splashy "concert ending". The bootleg track 'Voodoo Witches' matches the written 10m4 New.

  11. 35 minutes ago, ragoz350 said:

    Wow, what a list. I didn't even know there was tracking from AOTC.




    I’m not 100% sure about the AOTC tracking, but it’s certainly the same material, and to my ears it sounds like the same recording. Unfortunately, like a lot of music in this film, it’s mixed very quietly.




    Anyone else care to chime in on whether or not they think it’s the same recording?

  12. 1 hour ago, Michael G. said:

    Ist this the playlist from GEMA?

    Or is ist the playlist for the final movie?

    sorry, but i'm sinking in all this right now😩

    The GEMA database just has cue titles and work codes that seem to match the order each cue is first used in the film (though many, many cues appear more than once). It doesn’t have the cues that are tracked from other Star Wars films as well as some that happen to re-use cue titles previously used by Williams (such as ‘Return to Tatooine’). It also has no indication of timings.


    Between GEMA and the November 11th spreadsheet, it’s possible to work out a rough idea of what’s heard in the film, but there’s some educated guesses required, plus a few bits that are simply impossible to know without more information.

  13. 9 minutes ago, Michael G. said:

    The music was really put together in that order, or was it planned that way?

    I can’t imagine much of this was planned, but what’s so puzzling is the changes go far beyond even what was necessary to match an edit that kept changing enormously up to the last minute. For instance, the music of the Speeder Chase seems to have been largely intact in the November 11th cut, with similar timings, but was almost entirely tracked over before release.

  14. On 8/30/2021 at 6:30 AM, ragoz350 said:

    The next rendition (horns and low string tremolos) is in the "Anthem of Evil" (I don’t know what cue it actually is).

    Oh, good catch! I’ll update my OST breakdown.

    Actually, the spectrogram makes it seem that passage was edited in, so it’s likely to actually be sourced from 1M8. Unusually for a Williams OST track, ‘Anthem of Evil’ seems to contain a lot of short edits of sections of multiple cues and even pitch-shifting.

  15. 39 minutes ago, Jay said:

    The following additional songs were mentioned by Dan Schweiger in the liner notes, but we don't actually know if they were recorded or not - or if they would even get approved for a commercial release if they were

    1. Believe
    2. Childhood
    3. Low Below
    4. Stick With Me


    The full score of 5M6/6M1 Hook's Entrance references a playback version ("See P.B."), which almost certainly means a version of 'Low Below' was recorded.

  16. 1 hour ago, TownerFan said:

    Farewell also has that wonderful transfiguration of Kylo Ren's theme. I hope JW has extended that, and also the interplay between Rey and Ben material.


    So, I've seen just enough of the sheet music now to see that it appears 'Rey and Ben' is identical to 'Farewell' as heard from 0:00-3:55, but then goes off in a different direction at that point. That makes sense given the ending material of 'Farewell' was just heard in the previous movement ('The Rise of Skywalker'). All I know is there's a rallentando marked there, so it's definitely not the jaunty fanfare material.

  17. 1 hour ago, blondheim said:

    Rey and Ben has to be Farewell! But will it have anything else mixed in?

    Seems most likely to me, too, especially because ‘Rey and Ren’ is a cue title for some portion of ‘Farewell’.

    But there’s a lengthy section of material repeated between ‘The Rise of Skywalker’ and ‘Farewell’, which would be odd to have in two consecutive movements. Hmm…

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