Adam

Quite a few cues on the soundtrack aren't in the movie, actually : Trio - The Meeting, To Thornfield (as I mentioned), Overture, Restoration (although we get a couple shortened arrangements of this theme), Across the Moors and String Quartet (we hear a quartet playing a different song - perhaps non-Williams, I don't know). JW must have originally scored a much longer movie which was severely cut before being released. Despite this, though, there's a lot of unreleased music. Most notably are some wonderful arrangements of the love theme, with Across the Stars-like harp action underneath the melody. And a very simple but pretty piano arrangement that appears as source music (again, Jane plays this a couple of times). As for the availibility of the movie, what's Zone 2? I got the movie at the link provided towards the beginning of this thread but I'm sure I'm missing something. - Adam

I think he wrote great scores for all of the films including Star Wars and the prequels. The point is that the character and nature of the score is determined to a large extent by the character and nature of the film. So, if somebody thinks Star Wars is a better score, its probably because they prefer those qualities that the first film had which is reflected in the music. Although if no argument is provided, I can only guess. - Adam

I just saw the film and there is quite a bit of unreleased music. The character, Jane Eyre, even plays the love theme on the piano twice in the movie which was a bit of an odd crossover of source music and film music. Several other versions of the love theme that I would love to have. Some scenes must have gotten taken out after JW scored it. "To Thornfield" isn't in the movie although I got a pretty good idea of where it was supposed to go. The Reunion was the highlight of the movie. Beautifully evocative music for a touching scene. - Adam

I think that the way that ESB was made accounts for the fact that most of us regard it as the stand-out score of the series, and perhaps his career. That film is the reason I wish Kershner(sp?) was directing all of the films. The film is the most rich, has the most compelling characters and acting, has lots of fast-paced action focused on character without all of the quick, hectic edits of ROTJ and the prequels. It has a greater sense of fantasy. Its darker with a tinge of meloncholy running throughout. I think the score relfects all of these qualities and its why it is my favorite score. I can't imagine a score like that existing in the prequels, even without all of the bad edits. That's not to say he doesn't get constrained from time to time by a director who pulls him back, but I think that, in general, his output corresponds closely with the qualities and dynamics of the film itself. - Adam

There's no question that the edits in the final battle are not Williams' doing. In fact he rescored the whoe thing once because of Lucas's edits and then Lucas re-edited the battle sequence yet again, leading to the horribly chopped up version that we hear in the movie and on the UE soundtrack. I still think there's a lot of great music on those 2 cds that I'm thankful for having and I'd rather have an UE than nothing. But, hopefully, in the future we can hear the music as it was intended, both for TPM and AOTC. - Adam

Amen - Adam

The way I look at it is that ET was a great film in many ways but definitely a film that needed music. And there are scenes that would risk being completely corny or silly without an effective underscore. Kids flying through the air on bicycles is one example of that. Spielberg deserves credit for having the confidence to make a movie that other directors might have felt to be too "empty". A lesser director might have added explosions and such to pump up the action sequences. Williams provides the action scenes with the kinetic and emotional energy to make them so compelling. So I don't think that its necessarioly a contradiction to say that ET was a great movie (well directed, acted, etc.) but made in such a way that music was very necessary (much more than most films) to complete the experience. The accumulated effect of having music doing the right thing, scene after scene, for the entire course of the movie and that to have that ambitious last 20 minutes where the music becomes sort of transcendent, sweeping us away... Its hard to underestimate how important that was to the experience. - Adam

Yeah, unfortunately, Spielberg tracks in a different cue once or twice in a movie quite commonly although its done in CMIYC more than usual. Overall, its done more tastefully when compared to more notorious examples (SW prequels). But its hard for me to think of a Williams score to a Spielberg film that comes out completlely unscathed. Even ET and Schindler's List have cues that are tracked in to another scene over his orgininal composition. Overall, its more forgiveable than with other collaborations since the tracked in music more or less fits and we are still given so much quality music with the vast majority of the score remaining intact. One point of confusion as I read the previous posts : The Father's Theme is track 8 and the beginning was tracked in several times during the movie. The concert suite of the father's theme is track 4 and has only a very small part tracked in to the movie (as mentioned by Kevin M. in his original post). - Adam

Very impressive! I don't see Cadillac of the Skies as a theme. The music that appears when Jim is trying to save his friend is a highlight of the score for me but I see it a something different from Cadillac of the Skies. Although, now that you've connected the two, I can "see" the similarity. But, again, I don't really see that as a deliberate connection by JW. I believe Sao Gan was written by someone else although its a nice piece of music. What you call the "Opulance Theme" was written by JW I'm pretty certain. One of the times it was tracked in over his original composition. Needless to say, I would have preferred the original composition. There's a lovely motif that I don't think you mentioned which is used when Jim is in the abandoned house. Once it is heard on piano and the other time with strings. Two great unreleased cues. Overall, this is an amazing score. Thanks for taking the time to write up your comments. - Adam

I agree in principle with having this score released just because if somebody spends a couple months writing music, it sucks for nobody to ever hear it. And I say this independently of what he wrote. Let it be released and people can decide if its terrible, great or whatever. I would say the same about lesser artists who are under a contract to complete a project and, ultimately, are at the whim of the studio or one person, who has the power to decide whether or not their craft sees the light of day. Its a demeaning aspect of the profession although I'm not exactly sure what the answer is in the short term. On the other hand, I won't regard it as a major injustice if we never hear it since, as was stated, there are worthier issues. And Goldsmith has disappointed me too often to have any confidence that this will be something I want to listen to regularly. - Adam

I'm didn't get the software to be able to hear the themes, however the Olympic theme called "Olmpic Spirit" is wrongly credited for the Winter Games. It was written for NBC's coverage of the 1988 Summer games in Seoul. - Adam

I like the version of Yoda's theme you are talking about from ESB, to a large extent because of the string writing underneath. I still think the theme was designed to give a sense of the warmth, wisdom, magic, etc. of Yoda so that there's a danger of trying to stick it in places where it isn't needed. But, this is a minor point in the scheme of things. If anybody could manipulate the theme to make it work for that Yoda-Dooko confrontation, JW could - I'm just making the judgement that it was better he didn't. I could be wrong, of course. - Adam

Actually, TPM, didn't have music from previous movies, now that I think about it, just an unbelievably butchered presentation of the climatic battle music. -Adam

Your point, MaestroJW, about the scene with the jedi kicking ass beniefiting from sort of quote of the main theme is correct - or maybe even a kick-ass version of the force theme. Originally, I got the impression you were talking about a quote of the main title in its full glory which I thought would have been over the top, but referencing the theme in the appropriate context is something JW has done often. As for the other's point about Yoda's theme not being used in the final confrontation (until the very end when he's using the force while Dooku escapes), I don't really think this was a weakness of the score. My frustration was the sound mix - its hard to hear the music. But the score he wrote for that scene was very effective, IMO. Yoda's theme works best in the contemplative scenes that existed in TESB and ROTJ. It wouldn't work with him flying around the room with a light saber and the male choir was a cool way to score his reaching for the light saber beforehand. I'd like to think Lucas won't edit in music from previous SW films but there hasn't been a movie where he hasn't done that since Empire Strikes Back (and even that had music taken out of scenes where it would have been better left in). So I'm not very confident. - Adam

Thanks for the info. and the link. I ordered the film and am anxious to hear the score with the movie. I particularly like the finale, I think its the Reunion, so I can't wait to see how that fits in. - Adam

That's an amazing musical scene. Its the kind of scene that could easily seem ridiculous in the hand's of a lesser composer but JW brings out the magic of the scene - and those chord progressions are gorgeous. - Adam

Whether or not we get this will depend on the kind of film that Lucas gives us, I think. I'd like to hear more of Yoda's Theme but that's going to require Lucas to give us some scenes with Yoda that bring back some of the orginal triology magic not just having us watch Yoda passively discuss politics or whatever. The same factors determine whether we hear the main theme, I think. For example, we only hear the main theme in Superman in full throttle when he saves the helicopter and you have shots of the crowd cheering (not counting the credits, of course). It was a heraldic scene that called for the heraldic rentition. In the Superman sequels with other composers using the theme, its used way too much. I think they thought the same thing - we've got this great main theme, why not use it at every heroic moment? The problem is the music doesn't really mesh with the scenes and it can actually cause a disconnect with the audience who subconscously are likely to feel manipulated and be taken away from the film. The same goes with the Star Wars theme. There's never been a scene that would support a full blown statement of that theme, ouside the opening and end titles. And, of course, I agree about the horrible edits in the prequels. The better the film that Lucas gives us and the less tinkering around he does with the edits, the happier we're all likely to be with the score. - Adam

The most famous news theme is the Mission Theme which is on his Best Hits with the Boston Pops CD as well as the recent American Journey CD. The theme I like best is called, I think, The Pulse of Events. I hear that used with the news program, Meet the Press. He's written others, actually, but I've never heard NBC use them. The Fugue for Changing Times is really good. I'm not aware of any official releases for these other themes. - Adam

I'm curious if anyone has seen the movie. I love the score - very English and very pretty. But I would love it more if I could hear it with the film. Don't think its available. Jane Eyre was a rare chance in that era for JW to do a more "mature" film. And I think it shows that his supposedly more mature era of the 1990s really was, to a large extent, just JW doing a lot more mature films because the music for Jane Eyre certainly has a more mature feel and that was 1971 (I think). - Adam

God no! This tune is something Williams would have wrote in high school or something. Actually, has anyone heard the fanfare he wrote that year for Dukakis? I'd love to hear it but I'm unaware of any recording. Not sure why NBC news would have used something so awful but I guess its supposed to have the feel of a Presidential march. - Adam, whose favorite Williams NBC theme is the one used for Meet the Press.

Not a crucial point, but Anakin's theme uses a french horn in the end credits version, not a harpsichord, although the love theme uses the harpsichord. - Adam

You're right - I was referring to its non-inclusion (for the most part) in the scenes with Anakin in the movie. The end credits appearance would have been a great way to use the theme since he sort of musically traces the evolution of Anakin and foreshadows his becoming Vader. - Adam

Falstaft's post was good on this but with regard to some of the exmples that have been cited : I said this recently but I think of Han and Leia's theme as The Fate of Han Solo theme and by that standard the theme is used pretty consistently and its inclusion in the Finale seems appropriate. JW originally wrote the Binary Sunset scene without the Force Theme. I'm probably one of the only people in the world who thinks that his original composition weds more closely with that scene although his replacement obviously gives the scene a certain mystical sweep that would have otherwise been absent. I think Anakin's theme would have been difficult to use in AOTC. The theme was written to convey a child-like innocence and sweetness that worked great with Anakin as a boy but these qualities are absent from the grown up Anakin. I like that JW doesn't force his themes into situations that they aren't called for, just for the sake of thematic consistency. Yoda's theme is hardly heard in the prequels, not becuase he doesn't have any screen time but becuase Lucas is no longer directing Yoda's scenes in a way where music is allowed much of a role, much less this theme. Yoda discusses things in the manner of CSPAN or something. In contrast, the original triology called out for music to reinforce the fantasy, mystery, wisdom, etc. surrounding Yoda. That's just a few examples, there are many others. -Adam

Yeah, Jedi Rocks was a painful replacement to have to bear witness to. I like Lapti Nek from the point of view of an effective piece of source music that works with the film. And the song has grown on me somewhat. However, if I had never heard Lapti Nek before and I turned on the radio to hear it playing, I'm certain I would turn to a different station. - Adam

Spielberg has even conceded the value of JW, saying something to the affect that JW makes him look good each time out. I think movies like ET, Jaws, Indiana Jones triology, etc. are great movies but movies that need good scores to be successful. I don't think its simply luck that JW has been associated with more money making movies than anybody - composer, director, actor or otherwise. - Adam