Adam

I'm sure there are dozens if I thought through all of the movies but here's just a few that come immediately to mind : Jurassic Park : Encountering the brachiasaurus for the first time. The music has a religious feel - full of reverance and awe. Phantom Menace : The Force Theme when Anakin leaves his mother. Far and Away : Joseph jumps out of the train to join the Oklahoma Land Rush. I remember a 3 or 4 year old girl, who surely had no idea what was going on in the movie, stood up in her chair and cheered. Now that's powerful music. Born on the Fourth of July - Ron Kovik hits a home run as a kid. The music oozes Americana, bittersweet nostalgia and a romantic longing for a lost innocence. ET - The final 20 minutes is a JW showcase. Goosebump moments all over the place. Can't imagine anyone else being able to pull something off like that. - Adam

I see the similarity now that you point it out but I think its a coincidence. There's no reason to do that intentionally and if he did he would make the connection more obvious. The pieces are still quite different. - Adam

I love this concert piece, also. I disagree with the first post in that I don't really hear a playfulness. But it has a sweeping, romantic, bittersweet feel that makes it one of my favorite themes ever, perhaps. The only reason I can think of for calling Across the Stars the first love theme is that TESB love theme is employed in the film in a broader context than just the relationship with Leia. Its kind of like the "Fate of Han Solo" theme. For example we hear the theme for the first time when Han is talking to Luke over their walkie-talkies. But, still, its curious that both JW and George Lucas would act as though this relationship of Han and Leia and the music that was used for it didn't exist. - Adam

I get irritated with all of the tinkering in CMIYC where the Father's theme was inserted and just fades away. As good as the Spielberg-Williams collaboration is, Spielberg is not above this kind of meddling and it usually happens at least once in their movies. It happened quite a bit in this one. - Adam

Rosewood bears some similarity to his deep south scores such as Sugarland Express, Missouri Breaks, The Reivers, etc. in that he employs a lot of blues elements and some harmonica, banjo, etc. Overall, though, it stands on its own as a unique score. For one thing, there are three African American spirituals. And the colorings of the score are very specific to the film as always. Its darker than the above mentioned scores, overall. Lots of other differences. - Adam

I thought JW's approach was correct. This film's style was supposed to be in the tradition of Hitchcock and film noir. So the "Hermanesque" approach reinforced this aspect of the film. It was a dark, gritty film in many ways - different than what people (myself included) were expecting. The concept suggested we might get a more futuristic Williams but the texture of the film did not really allow for this. I actually enjoy the score from the point of view of a listening experience. Sean's theme is very pretty, especially in its most rhapsodic moment in track 9. Ann Lively's theme is genious. The more dissonant passages are evocative and rich, IMO. I could go on. l With all of his scores, my listening experience is heightened by an understanding of how the score worked in the film, so its hard to completely separate the two criteria. - Adam

I think that the reason for the inclusion of that theme might not be so complicated. There was a scene originally where the boy was singing the song. JW scored the movie thinking that this scene was going to stay in the movie. I could be wrong, but I think if he had known the scene would be dropped he would not have included the references in the rest of the movie. The full presentation of the song in the end credits of the Special Edition was an attempt, later, to make its appearance more coherant but, I doubt, it would have been the direction he would have taken in 1977, again, without the scene of the boy singing, unless Spielberg insisted. - Adam

The theme was written for the trailer and used very sparingly in the film. Its not really used for the character of Nixon in the film. Mostly it is used for the flashbacks of the 1960s, with protesters getting beat up by the police. Thus the name, The Turbulent Years. Had JW used the theme for Nixon getting on Airforce One, of course it would be inappropriate. But he didn't. And again I think it works fine in the film and spectacularly in the trailer, IMHO. - Adam

The Turbulent Years was perfect for the trailer. It creates the sense of the dark, brooding Nixon as well as creating the feeling of a high-stakes political caper which ratchets up the anticipation level higher and higher... If anything it makes the film seem a lot better than it is, which is I guess what trailers are supposed to do. If only TPM could have allowed for that kind of dramatic writing... The Droid Battle? Don't really hear that connection, IMHO. - Adam

A very literal example is Home Alone 2 when Kevin dials 911. JW mimics the sound of a touchtone phone. How did he do that? - Adam

The first three notes of the main theme are the same as the Imperial March but it is in a much higher register with a more complicated 6/4 rythem and the notes that follow aren't similar. Therefore, I don't think they are that closely related. The music for the Miami Convention is incredible, especially if hear with the film. Its the one goosebump moment in the movie for me althought the entire score is effective. I'd like to hear again the Turbulent Years with the Nixon trailer with which it was written for. The couple times JW has written trailer music its been amazing. - Adam

Overated by what criteria? A score is written to support a movie so it could be a great score even if you don't like listening to it. Its an incredible score in my view. Its kind of a weighty listening experience given the subject matter so its not the kind of score that I "enjoy" in the strictest sense of the word. But I appreciate how perfectly he supported the movie and the music is haunting, beautiful, tragic, poignnant, poetic at various times. Amazing. - Adam

I think this is correct : 1. Revisiting Normandy 2. Omaha Beach 3. Finding Private Ryan 4. Approaching the Enemy (Some of this cue isn't in the film, I think) 5. Wade's Death 6. High School Teacher (mostly a rehash of Omaha Beach) 7. Defense Preparations 8. The Last Battle 9. Hymn to the Fallen - Adam

Yeah, I agree with what's been said. Schindler's List is poignant in a way that film scores rarely have the opportunity to be. JW is able to capture the Jewish ethnic aspect and the tragic nature of the film. I think the main theme is very sad but it actually has a tinge of hope and compassion to it, as is appropriate for a theme that conveys Schindler's efforts to save lives. It seems like a necessary CD for any JW fan but I can never tell somebody that they will definitely like it. I love it but people differ. -Adam

The creepy trumpet theme was written for those scenes that deal with Gibson's secret, troubled past (killing lots of Indians). The "family theme" isn't the family theme. It functions as the love theme (for Gibson's son and girlfriend) in the movie (a small part of the film so not very prominent on the soundtrack). The main theme sounds like Amistad but it plays a similar function in both movies - to convey American patriotism and the stuggle for freedom (except that in Amistad it also is used in an African context). I think the Patriot theme is kind of moving in a shallow, jingoistic way. I probably sound like I'm making excuses for JW but the fact is the theme pretty much fits the scenes, which are shallow and jingoistic. I don't hear that close of similarity to the Lost World in terms of action music. The Lost World relied heavily on Latin style percussion in the action scenes which is completely missing in the Patriot. Plenty of other differences, in my view. Other comments reflect personal tastes which I have no reason to argue with. No reason to expect everyone to like that score. Adam

I think Ocelot was right to make a distinction between the score in the film and a listening experience. The music worked great in the film. I enjoy it as an album, also, but I think some people's disappointment comes from the fact they wanted and were expecting a John Williams Braveheart. And, of course, the movie wasn't that - not JW's fault, of course. -Adam

Here's my revised list so as not to include American Journey (which is a great score and no more obscure than many of his feature films but I'll accept the criteria ). 1. Empire Strikes Back 2. Schindler's List 3. ET 4. Born on the Fourth of July 5. Far and Away 6. Home Alone 2 7. Artificial Intelligence 8. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom 9. Return of the Jedi 10. Jurassic Park

What motif are you speaking of that doesn't change? I've detected nothing that is on the level of Horner with regard to Sabrina and CMIYC. The music has a similar light, bouncy flavor at times as would be expected for two light comedies but the music itself has no close resemblance, especially not the sax solos, in my view. Considering the hundreds of hours of music JW has written in his career, I think its remarkable for how little "Hornering" he has had. And when he writes something similar, it rarely seems intentional or for lack of originality. People's perceptions of how similar something is can be very different. I've heard someone ask if the music from Always was to Star Wars. In general, the more music you've heard of JW the more likely you are to be struck by the differences rather than the similarities. But maybe there's someting specific that people have in mind that I can be enlightened with. -Adam -Adam

1. Empire Strikes Back 2. Schindler's List 3. ET 4. Born on the Fourth of July 5. Far and Away 6. Home Alone 2 7. Artificial Intelligence 8. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom 9. American Journey (documentary) 10. Return of the Jedi -Adam

I don't know that JW has had much of an opportunity for epic type music, lately. The Star Wars prequels have some of that but less than the original trilogy, thus disppointing for some people. The love theme has sweep but there are basically two scenes in AOTC where it has the opportunity to be unleashed (The Wedding, Love Pledge). The Patriot, one might expect more epic scale in the music given that this is a Mel Gibson war film. I think people were expecting Braveheart. But, in reality, this was directed more as a Gibson action film with the Revolutionary War in the background. The score reflects this, I think. Seven Years in Tibet has epic sweep at times, although the score got the George Lucas prequel treatment in the film. Far and Away was a good opportunity and I thought he came through admirably but that was about 10 years ago. That's why the thought of JW doing LOTR is so tantalizing. Those films have more grandeur and scope than even the Star Wars films, perhaps. Oh well... -Adam

My point with Goldsmith is that he is less likely to nail the individual scenes. I can think of examples myself where he's done it so I agree he is able to. The example you site is one that I'll have to go back and watch. Whether Williams would do better is subjective enough that we might have different conclusions even if we had the benefit of hearing each composer score a particular scene. My tendency to compare everything to JW stems from the fact that he seems so damn right all the time. And I've watched his films way too many times because I can't seem to get over this fact. And I do think I'm unusual in that I watch LOTR or any non-JW film and have to be distracted by part of my brain which is running a constant critique of the music, judging all of the ways it is not capturing appropriately a moment or whatever. It is a recipe for diappointment, I agree. At the same time, I try to give credit where credit is due, and Shore, Goldsmith, etc. deserve plenty. It comes down to certain technique and craft that JW has, based on my obscenely fanatical observations of him, that I've yet to see duplicated. I don't mean duplicated in exact terms because everyone brings their own compositional style and ideas but just in terms of capturing the dynamics of the direction, dialog, rythem, etc. of a film and maximizing a film's potential. Once you get keyed into all of that its hard not to be disappointed with everyone else. So I don't recommend that anyone do it. -Adam

Well, we're dealing with subjects that are worthy of extended essays. It would be hard to characterize these composers in a few lines. North is somebody I would be interested in paying more attention to, based on what you have said. You advise me to believe you when you say North could have done Schindler's List as well and I don't, I'm afraid to say. But, like I say, I'll pay more attention to him. Hermann wrote a great score for Psycho but I think JW could do an even more effective job (though I don't claim to be able to hear the alternate soundtrack in my head). Williams works fine in the "horror" genre. We don't have a lot of horror film scores by JW to listen to and observe but Dracula, The Fury were great scores for inferior movies (compared to Psycho). Jaws 1 and 2 had elements of a horror film as did some scenes in Close Encounters. The point being : JW is perfectly capable in that genre, creating chills, suspense, fright, etc. and his music is more closely wedded to the movie than Hermann's in my view. Goldsmith is somewhat erratic. I can't really speak to Patton, but a lot of his action music is banal and repetitive, with very little attention to the subtleties of the film. He is better at capturing the "big picture" and less likely to nail the individual scenes dead on. He has moments of brilliance and ingenuity and is definitely a fun one to pay attention to. No doubt, the art of film music has advanced since Hermann and North were working, like in any sport or craft. Its a little bit like comparing Jerry West and Michael Jordan or something. JW benefits from the fact that he comes after North and Hermann so he has a better idea of what works and build upon prior contributions, refine them, etc. This is something he has done with his Hermanesqe quotes in AOTC and Minority Report. -Adam

Anytime a score is successful with a movie and well known its going to be hard to imagine something different for the movie. With that said, though, I think JW would do a better job scoring North, Goldsmith, Hermann films although I'll admit to less familiarity with their works. But from what I've seen and heard I would have at least as many complaints as I do with Shore. JW has scored movies in just about any style and if there is a type of movie he can't do extremely well, I've yet to see it. So I don't think its a matter of the style of the movies. After all, what could be more different than Schinder's List and Star Wars? In fact, his versatility is one of the things that sets him apart, in particular as compared to Hermann and North. -Adam

Some good points have been raised. I agree that its a misleading to compare Star Wars and LOTR too literally because they are different in many respects, including the realism factor. If Williams had done LOTR, I think his music would have reflected the differences in the movies. And Williams certainly hasn't had trouble with more "realistic" movies. And its not so much a matter of themes as it is capturing the potential of a particular scene which can be done thematically if necessary but often not. Much of the emotion of Empire of the Sun, to take one example, is captured through nonthematic material. Its also true that JW and Shore have different approaches. I'm arguing that Shore's approach (which I don't necessarily see as less thematic) is less successful in terms of maximizing the drama onscreen. Its not like audiences aren't enjoying the films immensely and I regard Shore's score as basically very successful, so we're talking a matter of degree here. As far as Morn's points go, it would take too long to address all of your points. You named some great film composers but can you honestly say that North, Goldsmith or Hermann would do a better job scoring the Star Wars Triology, ET, Jaws, Schindler's List, Indiana Jones, etc., etc.? These scores are remarkable in part because of his "matching every scene in the film thematically and emotionally". I would say the same about JW's lesser known scores as well. -Adam

Thematic construction is very much related to the overall emotional effect of the movie. So in the example I gave, when watching LOTR, certain scenes were calling out for strong thematic material to convey EMOTIONALLY the sense of the power and danger of the ring. And the music just didn't seem to rise to the occasion. These are the kind of scenes JW would add more emotion to and the accumulated effect of that kind of contribution would be to add to the overall emotional impact of the films. There's a subjective aspect, obviously, but we can also observe the pacing, the direction, the acting, etc. to see what a movie and what particular scenes in a movie are trying to accomplish. And then we can compare whether the music seems to be working in the same direction. This provides something of an objective criteria by which to judge a composer's contribution. And its on these grounds that I base my view. -Adam