Adam

Well, I tried to present my case, with argument and an example, as to why the music doesn't always capture the emotion that the direction, acting, etc. suggest. You're asserting a position, not an argument. As such, I don't find your position very compelling. -Adam

Morn says Shore expanded the emotions a lot but the question is whether he does so to the degree that JW has done in the past or would with these films. I think Shore's scores are very effective but JW is in a class by himself in terms of the qualities I mentioned earlier. Memorable themes aren't the main point, I would agree. There are plenty of great JW scores that don't have memorable themes. Some films don't really require it and even films that do might not be successful enough to penetrate into the culture (The Fury might be one of those - the theme is memorable enough to those of us who have seen it a few times or listened to the soundtrack more than a few times). But, in a movie, such as LOTR one would expect more memorable themes to come out of it. JW's Star Wars themes are more memorable, not just because of the quality of the music, but also because the themes are so evokative of the ideas and characters in the movie. With LOTR, I think this is less the case although not completely, of course. The themes have a more generic quality. For example, LOTR needs a strong theme that really evokes the power and mystery of the ring - it ought to have a more powerful mythological, religious character to it. The current theme works fine in certain contexts but is constructed in such a way that it doesn't have the appropriate range and can't be manipulated to fit all of the scenes where it ought to be used. For example, there are scenes when the hobbit is feeling seduced by the ring and the music isn't hardly doing a thing. Its the equivalent of taking out the Force theme from the Star Wars movies. That's just one example and there are many others in the movie where the music falls short. My fantasy would be to one day have all of the top composers in Hollywood score the same picture. It would be much easier to compare and reflect on their various contributions and JW's unrivaled strengths would me much more obvious, I think. -Adam

If we start spell-checking everyone's posts, we're going to be very busy. Maybe there's an inside joke here but its rare that a post doesn't have a spelling or grammar error. I go back and read my posts and I usually spot one or two. Luckily, I think almost nobody cares. -Adam

Yeah, I don't think awards and official accolades mean anything, necessarily. Film scores should be judged on their own merits - in particular, how they support the film. Why defer to any so-called "experts", we can think for ourselves. I also agree that praise for another composer shouldn't be regarded as a threat to JW. However, this thread was introduced with statement by a reviewer who stated a position that I think is inaccurate. I haven't really heard good arguments from anyone to defend the position that LOTR scores are as good or better than Star Wars. Plenty of people enjoy the music but that's not the same as saying Shore supports the film as well as JW would. I was frequently frustrated when watching LOTR because their were moments that had so much potential and the music wasn't rising to the same level. This is the type of movie that JW would hit out of the ballpark. In some ways it has more potential musically than Star Wars, I think, in terms of the importance and prominence of the film music to the film. That's not something that I can prove but I base it on an embarrasing amount of hours "studying" the way JW's music interacts with his films. He has a knack for subtlelty and an extreme attention to the demands of the film that is unrivaled. Not to speak of the musical range to pull it off consistently. -Adam

The scene I'm talking about is related to Frank finding out the news from the lawyer at his house, towards the beginning of the film. Track 8 is tracked in as well as a few parts from track 4. In fact, the beginning of track 8 is used at least 3 or 4 times. It isn't done to horrible effect and only a JW nut like myself would even notice. Its extremely doubtful that JW asked for the changes although not impossible. He presumably wrote the music for the movie how he preferred it. It wouldn't really make sense for him to overrule his own choice. And in the case of the above scene, it was so akwardly done that I can say with extreme confidence that wasn't his decision. -Adam

I enjoyed the movie. I couldn't get that main title theme out of my head the rest of the day. Its an infectious little thing. I thought the score worked well as always. But I do get frustrated that Spielberg messes with the score. There was nothing on par with the Star Wars prequels fiascos but the beginning of track 8 seemed tracked in several times. In one sequence, track 4 was used briefly in an extremely akwardly edited way. This track is supposed to be the concert arrangement. These are relatively minor drawbacks but I guess I'm a bit of a purist about these kinds of things. For all of Spielberg's admiration towards JW I fail to see why he insists on doing this at least one time a film. Oh well... still a very good movie and score. -Adam

I tend to buy everything and find something to enjoy and appreciate with all of his scores. Its hard to know whether to recommend it because I don't know your level of interest in JW. Sleepers is definitely not in the mode of his more famous scores with a big sound and catchy themes. The music has a tense, creepy feel through much of the score. Highlights are a brief Catholic style choir song in track 4 and also the music for the football game, where he incorporates contemporary drums giving the piece a fast-paced, dare-I-say, "hip", feel. And the finale is wonderful. He breaks the dominant mood of emotional ambiguity with an inspirational but bittersweet finale (best rendition at the end of the end titles -track 2). It works brilliantly in the film and is a great part of the album. I don't know, you could always rent the movie (its very good in my view) and then see if the music seems worth the price to you. -Adam This score stands out for me