Adam

I thought Amistad had some strong momets, mostly in the middle part of the movie. The courtroom scenes were pretty weak at the end. I can understand pixie twinkle’s reaction but for me the patriotic music seemed consistent with the scene. If it were possible to watch the scene without music it might seem like better scoring because Spielberg’s roving camerawork and the editing would feel more “naked”. The music was necessary to glue it together I thought and give Hopkins’ platitudes something to stand on. But I reacted negatively also during much of those scenes just because the movie took one of the most shameful episodes of our history and somehow ran an idea through the film of American exceptionalism - the final courtroom scene being a big part of that. So in that sense, JW was reinforcing my negative reaction but it seemed like that was his job from the point of the direction. There’s a better moment at the end for me where Hopkins’ eyes well up as he’s speaking and JW writes something with choir that I thought was very poignant if not extremely brief - one of the better unreleased cues from the movie. - Adam

For what its worth, several of those tracks aren’t in the film : To Thornfield, The Meeting, Festivity at Thornfield. That order might reflect where they should have been although I’m not sure we really know where The Meeting music was supposed to take place in the film. The Restoration seems like a concert track and doesn't appear in the movie. However, the theme does appear briefly in a different form before the Reunion so that would be a good place to have it on a chronological list. - Adam

For me, what’s interesting about the slapstick music is comparing it to the copycat movies that came afterword, Broughton’s something-or-other having to do with a baby and Goldsmith’s Denice the Menace. If I were to only hear the music for the slapstick scenes, I would say the latter scores are “better” or more pleasurable to listen to anyway. But hearing it with the movie, I came away feeling like JW has a much better sense of what is needed to score the slapstick in terms of setting up the comedy. Its mickey-mousy but its what is needed for that kind of thing, I think. Goldsmith and Broughton wrote stuff in the right spirit, with a lot of energy and that is maybe more enjoybable or coherant musically but ultimately worse by the standard of helping the film IMO. To the extent slapstick works, and I’m not a fan, it seems like there’s something very precise that is needed musically in the set-up and in the way the music comments on everything. So on the level of getting some insight into JW’s approach, I can find it somewhat interesting though, as with the first Home Alone, its the part of the score I listen to much less. But Home Alone 2 is one of my favorites. It has a lot of what’s good about the first score, literally, and then a lot of good new stuff or very good reorchestrations of old stuff like the setting the traps sequence. I still prefer certain things from the first Home Alone. And it gets old to have the Kevin-running-down-the-stairs music for 4 or 5 sentimental scenes in the sequel. But for a lot of the reasons and tracks people mentioned, Home Alone 2 is a score I like a lot and one of the better JW albums out there in terms of representing all of his music well. - Adam

Deleted - nice joke.

Musicians can benefit from all sorts of traditions but I think each person has to find their own way as opposed to trying to prescribe a certain path but, again, on a general level his point is probably correct. His comments can be both correct and self-serving - I'm thinking of his comments against other composers mostly, not so much the problems of temp tracks. I don't really mind but I've witnessed this with other composers as well and it can come across as too self-righteous or like competitive vanity. And its done in a general way where he doesn't have to name names but nonetheless indicts a broad swath of people so that contributes to that impression I think. Having said that, you're right about him being very good musically so he can get away with it better than most could. - Adam

Both are wonderful for their movies. From a musical point of view I'll give a slight edge to PoA - seems to be more my tastes. - Adam

The theater play comment just seems like he's saying that musicians aren't coming into the business with a sufficient level of knowledge of the musical tradition though I don't think it makes sense to say specifically this or that is necessary to know, if he meant that literally. I like his comments about the institutional problems of film scoring. Hollywood, in all aspects, isn’t generally looking for people trying to break new ground. They’re constantly trying to recreate the success of something else. That extends to music which, as he says, is heavily influenced by temp-tracks. Its also true that film scoring has become a lot more popular and the level of compositional ability isn’t as high as it should be among people trying to break into the industry. I’ve heard actors make similar comments about the way the culture of Hollywood and celebrity has contributed to lots of people aspiring to fame more than any sense of what the craft is about. Though I agree with what he says to a large extent and think he’s one of the best from a musical point of view, its can sound self-serving for him to be the one making these observations. As good as JW is, he seems to be the type to go in the opposite direction, sometimes too far to the point of false modesty. But I think JW must recognize that in his position, its better to let one’s music do the talking, so to speak, and let other people be the judge. - Adam

For better or worse, film music is a derivative art form to some extent. There’s a premium on finding the right musical solution to enhance the movie which can also include incorporating an idea from the temp track if that's what is expected. These guys are for hire, afterall, and not even JW is given the luxury of complete creative freedom. In the case of Jaws, there’s every reason to believe he came up with the theme in tyring to solve the problems of the film. He’s said he thought the theme needed to be primitive, mindless and frightening and needed to be able to be manipulated to give the sense that the shark is getting closer and closer. So the question becomes do you not use something that works for the film because it sounds like something somebody already wrote? I’d say no but whatever the case, that’s not plagerism - its JW coming up with his own musical solution to the problem. Its his creative energies that went into it and its his compositional voice. I think that kind of analysis applies to the other examples that get mentioned also. - Adam

I remember JW saying the word "erotic" more times than I ever though I'd hear him say. But there wasn't a lot there in the interviews. - Adam

Probably Return of the Jedi culminating saber battle. Hymn to the Fallen is another good one. - Adam

Ok thanks for the correction. I need to start listening better to the actual movie instead of the music. But the basic point holds. The family story is taking place within the context of a larger human tragedy that is unfolding mostly outside of our view and maybe contriubutes to the ending feeling false for some people though, as I say, its a legitimate way to tell the story. - Adam

Well I think most people probably disagree judging by the selections so far. That's why figured I'd single it out for special mention. Comedies typically get overlooked in every category wheter it be acting, direction, etc. and in the case of Home Alone, the film was mostly disliked by critics and probably isn't anybody's favorite here. But if we compensate for that, I think its deserving of a special place in his repetoire and, as I say, a lot of people liked it because it became one of the most popular films at the time without any sort of big opening like films these days. I can't prove it but my feeling is that JW played a much bigger role in that then is generally acknowledged. - Adam

I thought the ending was unsatisfying but I’m not sure what would have been better. One billion people die, wiping out one sixth of the human race, and we’re watching a father and son get reuinited. But I think it was consistent with the intimate focus that Spielberg wanted to use. We never get much of a sense of the bigger picture. We’re supposed to be watching everything from the point of view of how this family is affected. People like Ebert never went along with the central coneipt of the movie so he writes an entire review about needing some sort of motivation from the bad guys. To the extent that’s true, we’re now watching an entirely different movie and the same goes for a lot of other directions the movie could have gone in. I think of it as a very well made film for what its trying to do. It delivers terror and a lot of compelling scenes but at the same time the emotional part of the story is more observed than felt for me. Being picky, the reunion scene probably could have done without the beautiful fall scenery and maybe the boy should have stayed dead, I don’t know. But even there one can feel how Spielberg and JW were holding back with the ending, not trying to dictate to the audience that we feel a certain way. So it wasn’t as bad as it could have been granting there was some Spielbergian sentimental excess. - Adam

I think of Home Alone as being up there in significance with ET, Schindler’s List, Jaws, etc. in terms of carving out a very unique spot in JW’s career. The film came out of nowhere and was very popular with the public, eventually becoming one of the biggest money-makers in film history at that time. The score was a big part of that and one can easily imagine his Christmas music living on in people’s associations with the season. - Adam

That seems remarkable that Speilberg would let that slide. I always figured that was a condition of Jones producing it. Its almost worse to think incompetence prevented Williams from doing it. But I also remember that a lot of people being credited to the final product so its hard to know how much of the score is Jones' effort or maybe he was being overly gracious. I'm not that familiar with it either but I remember JW mentioning that Quincy Jones was someone who understood the language of film and how music can complement it. He contrasted that with somebody who might be a better musician but couldn't score films if they didn't have that kind of understanding. That was an interview before The Color Purple I think. - Adam

Heartbeeps is one of his more interesting scores for me. He uses a lot of electronics and the way he combines it with the orchestra is different than the way most composers use synthesizers. Its also interesting to me in that the film itself is so bad. Whereas most bad Hollywood movies at least meet a minimal standard of competency in the production value, with Heartbeeps, the production value is really amateur and it has the feel of a couple film students scrounging up some money to try to piece together some sort of story. And this tacky little film is scored by the film composer who was in the middle of his unprecedented success, scoring blockbuster after blockbuster. But its a revealing score in that it gave me the sense that no matter how bad the film is, JW finds a way to really believe in the material and deliver something that is true to the spirit of the film. And I think that could be hard with a film like this. - Adam

I’d agree with Pete about the basoon concerto. I consider the last movement maybe my favorite concerto piece but the whole thing is quite good with the second movement standing out for me also. I like it when he can give us something more musically complex and unconstrained by film but still maintaining a certain beauty in more accessible terms like the ellegy for cello and certainly the last movement in the basoon concerto as mentioned. But just in terms of showing off JW’s ability, all of his concertos are quite impressive. Miguel mentioned Unfinished Journey and I actually think that had more people seen the documentary, it would be counted more as a film score than a concert piece. He actually wrote his music slavishly to the details of the documentary in the same way he does with a film so you still get a lot of short, strong thematic elements like in his film works. But, still, that doesn't mean a classical oriented person couldn't be imperssed so I'm not necessarily disagreeing. - Adam

I have a fondness for the Israeil national anthem so it would be nice to hear JW do an arrangment of that. It can be beautiful if performed with a good arrangment. But it doesn’t seem like this film is going to necessarily take a nationalistic/patriotic point of view. To my surprise, the early criticism of the story that I’ve read is coming from the Israeli establishment. The film perhaps takes liberty with the actual history but, also, has a less than positive view of the Israeli retaliation, with the moral that vengeance breeds more violence, if I understand the nature of the movie and controversy. When Spielberg plays loose with the facts for Amistad or Schindler’s List, hardly anybody cares but I have a feeling if he does it for a film like this, he's going to invite a big backlash. But I kind of like that he’s willing to take on a movie that’s a little more risky politically - touching on a historical issue that has so much current relevance and where passions run so high. But it would be disappointing if he plays too loose with the facts. We'll see, its kind of premature at this point. - Adam

American Journey was music to a documentary and was probably temp-tracked though there’s really just a few spots that I notice feeling blatantly similar to something else he’s done - like the Far and Away quote with the first movement. I think the Harry Pottter music is very evokative of the ideas in the movie but its delivered in a pretty standard fashion. It doesn’t feel like rehashing to me but it feels like, texturally, he's operating on a more generic level though that sounds more insulting than I intend. But there wasn’t a lot in the style or atmosphere of the film that suggested anything different that I can see so I respect that he tries to find a voice that matches the voice of the film. And there’s still lots of nice subtleties where he adds a quircky, off sounding harmony to an otherwise straightforward melody or more generally just the way he’s able to write themes and music that are so descriptive of their ideas in the film. But its one of those things where people want different things in their music and he can't please everybody even if that was the point. There's also the fact that when he's scored so many films, its decreasingly likely with each score that he's going to write something that doesn't sound like anything else he's done, especially if its a genre that's more familiar to him. - Adam

Yeah, I read that..kinda surprised me that Elfman is still that in-demand. Behind JW, my top three currently alive and working composers (I miss Jerry ) would be, I guess: James Newton Howard Alan Silvestri Patrick Doyle It's unfortunate most in-demand does not usually indicate most talented. Greta Yeah, I think the ranking can be misleading. Elfman has had very good success mostly within a particular genre of superhero films, though he’s done other stuff of course. But the Spiderman films probably count for a lot because its recent and its the kind of film that is such a big part of the money-making machine of Hollywood. On the other hand, somebody like James Newton Howard may be in more demand in a broader sense in that he’s been reasonably successful in a wider range of films. So he maybe gets less money but the upside is he seems like he’s less pigeon-holed than Elfman, who has been successful mostly as Mr. Superhero/ Burton-dark-quircky guy. But its hard to know for sure how it works from the inside. Nice signature, by the way, I’ve never heard that quote from Williams before. ( : - Adam

According to Filmscore Monthly's list which is a measure of who's most in damand and I'm sure this is something of an educated guess on their part : 1. JW 2. Elfman 3. Thomas Newman I might have thought Zimmer would be ahead of Newman. Horner is listed as #6 which is a reminder that he's fallen out of favor more with fans than with the industry. He's still the guy who did Titanic and lots of other hits. In terms of fan consensus, it doesn't seem like there really is one after JW. The composers I find more interesting are generally doing lesser known stuff. Maybe somebody like Patrick Doyle can get more projects after Harry Potter, since from a purely musical point of view, he's more appealing to me than most. - Adam

I think I agree with the orchestra player somewhat with Williams’ technique being more refined. There’s more complexity and difficulty in the arrangements, in general, and I also think JW is more technically exact in the way he matches the music with the visuals though Goldsmith was one of the best. So its all relative. As people have said, the thing that made Goldsmith more interesting at times is that he would be more likely to take an inventive approach to a movie. At his best, there’s a feeling that he’s elevating the film but in a way that is original. On the other hand, there’s a lot of times when he threw in a weird electronic sound and, though it may be different, its not exactly that creative in my mind or useful for the movie in some cases. So I think his synthesizer phase was a mixed-bag somewhat and his action music, maybe more in the latter stages of his career, often felt too one-dimensional with his pulsating rhythm approach. I found myself longing for stuff like Rudy, where he could write on a smaller scale for a movie worthy of his music. A score like that has a simplicity about it but speaks directly with a lot of heart and excitement. There’s a lot of scores I don’t know but the ones that are most impressive to me are scores like Basic Instinct, Gremlins, Hoosiers, etc. With these kinds of scores its hard to even compare with JW because Goldsmith found something that worked so well. Its hard to imagine anything different just like its hard to imagine The Godfather without Rota, ET without Williams, etc., etc. With JW, while there's a personal evolution no doubt, there’s more of a sense that his music will be roughly as different as the movies themselves. So I think that leads to a predictability. But I can’t really fault that and I think its that kind of consistency in approach that has led to his unprecedented success in Hollywood. I also think Goldsmith, though very versatile, had something that feels more personal in many of his scores (the pretty melody taking off on high strings for example) so there’s a sense in which maybe a lot of fans “bonded” with Goldsmith in a way that may be less common with JW, despite his reputation. But that’s just a general impression. - Adam

In terms of the thread title, now that I think about it the Last Crusade scene is a comedic scene where Jones is taking on the pretensions of being somebody he’s not. The Lockhart theme is a comedic piece for a character who takes on the pretensions of being something he’s not. So I don’t think he runs out of ideas so much as he’s not against using particular approaches that he’s used before if its useful for the scene. And I doubt its deliberate - he just goes wherever the scene suggests and that’s why there’s plenty of differences too. But they’re both quasi-serious and pretensious pieces with a wink at the audience. I can see how that approach would work with both kinds of scenes from the movies though I think Last Crusade most have been edited down cause the piece has a much smaller appearance in the movie if I remember correctly. - Adam

3 that I've listened to a lot recently : The final track on Hamlet by Patrick Doyle The Construction, Explorers by Jerry Goldsmith Homecoming, Born on the Fourth of July - though that usually involves skipping the first minute and going straight to the drums and trumpet solo. Beautiful melody and performance.

No argument on the quality of the music, but considering these two artists haven't collaborated in ten years, a period where Stone has directed six non-Williams movies, I think people are associating the Maestro to this project very quicly. I wasn’t assuming anything though maybe I gave that impression. I was just speaking to the idea of Williams doing another Stone film. I don't know how likely it is that it would happen. - Adam