Falstaft

Hmm…
 
 

Wow, another concert arrangement from TFA! That makes 6, right? Incredible just how fruitful that one film has been for suites (Rey, Resistance March, Jedi Steps, Scherzo for X-Wings, Jedi Steps and Finale, now an Adagio). 
 
I wonder if this was written early on in the writing process but abandoned or adapted into film cues like Sunbeam Strings (OST track The Starkiller)? It's worth noting that elements of Torn Apart were already integrated into the concert arrangement of The Jedi Steps, but it makes sense he'd expand this cue into a suite considering it's a recurring musical idea representing death. 
 
Also, this brings the total of new Star Wars concert arrangements in the last 2.5 years to 9! We are not worthy...! How wonderful that Williams remains so inspired by and committed to the franchise at his age. Hopefully we can look forward to another 3 for Episode IX!
 

Just noticed it on the event listing:
 
 
 
https://www.bso.org/Performance/Detail/93173

This is not completely correct. Wagner's compositional procedure was quite complex and went through many stages, from preliminary sketches to the finished full score. Even if some very partial sketches were developed in a different order, what matters in assessing whether the style is unified is the final product, because that is what we get to hear and since the evolution from the sketch to the full score might involve significant changes. With respect to this, (just check on wikipedia) he completed the full score of Das Rheingold in 1854, Die Walkure in 1856, Siegfried Act I in 1857, a draft of the second act was done in 1857 (not orchestrated), then he stopped to do other works and completed Siegfried in 1871 (!) and Gotterdammerung was finished in 1874. And to be honest, I really do perceive very significant stylistic differences between Rheingold and Gotterdammerung, which were the product of both the general evolution of music and orchestras, and Wagner's own researches. It should not be forgotten that, in the "break" between the two parts of Siegfried, he wrote (among other things) Tristan und Isolde, a work that marked a huge change in his conception of harmony. And indeed, Gotterdammerung sounds very different from Rheingold (melodies of some recurring leitmotiven apart). Even the last act of Siegfried sounds very different from the first two (and closer to the general atmosphere of Gotterdammerung, which was in fact composed almost at the same time). In my eyes, this is not a defect: evolution happens in art, mirroring the evolution of the artist's life. On a different scale, Williams' own stylistic evolution in the SW saga reflected the change of style in the movies.

Thanks so much for the feedback, I really appreciate it! The difference is very much intentional - we're experimenting with ways of distinguishing the spotting session episodes from the commentary, etc so are trying more of an editorial approach with these and then embracing more informal conversation for the other episodes. I hope it'll feel like a sort of balanced meal once the whole series is finished, but we definitely want to get feedback on how it's coming across. Thanks so much!
 
This week's episode is a brief little intermission between our 2 part cue-by-cue analysis:
 

Of course you can always adapt music to fit a 3/4 time when it's not written as such. Something about the melody of Rey's Theme, which is in 4/4, makes it a particularly good waltz when adapted to 3/4. Have a listen to the mockup I did below:
 
http://picosong.com/wfnek/
 
 

According to the BSO's page for the concert of August 19 (https://www.bso.org/Performance/Detail/93195/), Highwood Ghost is about 12 minutes long.

You know, two notes simply alternating anywhere, anytime doesn't automatically make it the Jaws theme. 
 
The Jaws theme is more than just two notes. It's played in low bass notes, rhythmically, in a menacing and frightening way. 
 
Here, I think it's just coincidence (except possibly the one at 0:08).

I agree: melodically, it feels more like an outgrowth of "Searching," and in "The Adventures of Han," it initially sounds like a contrasting middle section for that theme (though retrospectively, it's perhaps more of a free episode, as it does not return IIRC). Interestingly, Powell treats it as a thematic continuation (or contrasting B section) of the main "Heroic" leitmotif -- not "Searching"-- on at least one occasion, near the start of "Corellia Chase."
 
Notice how it occupies the same tonality at the start (I/F => V/Bb), and its mere proximity to the "Heroic" leitmotif brings out some of its structural affinities with that theme. I don't know the score well enough yet to say if he highlights its connections with "Searching," but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens too. 
 
It's details like this that are making me appreciate Powell's score even more; his manipulations of Williams's material are (with a perhaps a few exceptions) remarkably compelling and compositionally assured.
 
 
  

What a dumb thing to say. 
 

I have 2 questions:
 
1) Why hasn't anyone asked yet what is the music that is playing?
2) Why does it sound like John Williams but I don't think it's Williams and can't pinpoint it either?

If anyone is interested, here is my transcription of the piece (by ear).
 
 

Duel of the Fates was NOT for the duel with Darth Maul only @Chen G., it was for the entire TPM finale. hence why we hear it  for the destruction of the Droid Control ship (and the unused statements for the attack on the Theed hangar and throne room).

I agree: melodically, it feels more like an outgrowth of "Searching," and in "The Adventures of Han," it initially sounds like a contrasting middle section for that theme (though retrospectively, it's perhaps more of a free episode, as it does not return IIRC). Interestingly, Powell treats it as a thematic continuation (or contrasting B section) of the main "Heroic" leitmotif -- not "Searching"-- on at least one occasion, near the start of "Corellia Chase."
 
Notice how it occupies the same tonality at the start (I/F => V/Bb), and its mere proximity to the "Heroic" leitmotif brings out some of its structural affinities with that theme. I don't know the score well enough yet to say if he highlights its connections with "Searching," but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens too. 
 
It's details like this that are making me appreciate Powell's score even more; his manipulations of Williams's material are (with a perhaps a few exceptions) remarkably compelling and compositionally assured.
 
 
  

I agree: melodically, it feels more like an outgrowth of "Searching," and in "The Adventures of Han," it initially sounds like a contrasting middle section for that theme (though retrospectively, it's perhaps more of a free episode, as it does not return IIRC). Interestingly, Powell treats it as a thematic continuation (or contrasting B section) of the main "Heroic" leitmotif -- not "Searching"-- on at least one occasion, near the start of "Corellia Chase."
 
Notice how it occupies the same tonality at the start (I/F => V/Bb), and its mere proximity to the "Heroic" leitmotif brings out some of its structural affinities with that theme. I don't know the score well enough yet to say if he highlights its connections with "Searching," but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens too. 
 
It's details like this that are making me appreciate Powell's score even more; his manipulations of Williams's material are (with a perhaps a few exceptions) remarkably compelling and compositionally assured.
 
 
  

I agree: melodically, it feels more like an outgrowth of "Searching," and in "The Adventures of Han," it initially sounds like a contrasting middle section for that theme (though retrospectively, it's perhaps more of a free episode, as it does not return IIRC). Interestingly, Powell treats it as a thematic continuation (or contrasting B section) of the main "Heroic" leitmotif -- not "Searching"-- on at least one occasion, near the start of "Corellia Chase."
 
Notice how it occupies the same tonality at the start (I/F => V/Bb), and its mere proximity to the "Heroic" leitmotif brings out some of its structural affinities with that theme. I don't know the score well enough yet to say if he highlights its connections with "Searching," but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens too. 
 
It's details like this that are making me appreciate Powell's score even more; his manipulations of Williams's material are (with a perhaps a few exceptions) remarkably compelling and compositionally assured.
 
 
  

In response to several posts, I'm taking the liberty of creating this thread as a response to a problem plaguing a number of members here: SWD, Star Wars Disenchantment. It's a common problem, but one that need not dominate your life, or that of your friends and family. 
 
This thread serves multiple purposes: as a place for people with SWD to air their grievances, find solace and community with fellow sufferers, and for those without SWD to air their own voice, if they're so inclined. We're all about tearing down walls here. 
 
If you suffer from SWD, or know someone who suffers from SWD, please refer them to this thread, where their voice can be properly heard.
 
Thank you all, I wish you all a great day.

Here’s a question, it’s seems like people feel like the two main sections of Han’s theme are melodically different enough to be separate ideas, but what about the third section? To my untrained ears, it sound like a halfway point between the two - like it could be a B section to either theme.
 
So what’s the analysis of the third section from people who understand music composition?

It sounds like an outgrowth of the B with its acciaccatura-like melodic detail and falling interval (that doesn't resolve at the bottom like the A), but it could also be shown to derive from the A. It indirectly demonstrates how closely A (Lehman's "Heroic") and B ("Searching") are related in design. It also has the rising fourth pickup like Luke A / The Force, and falls back to its initial note like the Force, a sort of "do or do not" bit.

We can call it two themes, but even Lehman, although he mentions the criteria of a leitmotif not being subsidiary to something else, designates Luke's A as a principal leitmotif and not Luke's B. We can say Luke has two themes and they're both Luke's theme, collectively or individually.
 
Yes, although I wouldn't privilege a musicological point of view over other ways of engaging with the music. Williams himself, although he is the composer with over half a century of creating his own style, speaks in a more general way about his work, not going into technical terms (style words like processional or cantilena aside).

Haha! I absolutely love this kind of thing. More Skywalker family resemblances (or reflections) to add to Luke, Across the Stars, etc. I sometimes wonder if Williams is conscious of this kind of thing or not. I mean, Kylo's main motif is clearly lifted almost verbatim from the end of the Emperor's theme, but I have my doubts he did that on purpose; rather his mind just operates on a fiercely permutational level, e.g. "composing backwards."

Yeah, but according to Williams:1
 
 
I used to think he was misremembering (the interview is 16 years removed from Return of the Jedi) but re-reading it, I now get the opposite impression, which is apt because he was probably still conducting these pieces on the concert hall ad nauseam, not to mention gearing up for Episode I.
 
I'm certainly not saying this approach should be applied to every theme in the Star Wars catalog: rather, only where Williams intended for it, either explictly or in a way that can be easily deduced from the music, album arrangement, etc...
____________________________
1  Craig L. Byrd, Star Wars 20th Anniversary: Interview with John Williams, in: Film Score Monthly (1998).

So where do we end up on the "is it two themes or two parts of one theme" debate now that we've all heard it?
 
I'm no expert, but from what I hear there is a first distinct melody (the "heroic" one), then another (the "searching"), then finally a third (which is more clearly a counter melody to the "searching"). The fact that the searching theme seems to have it's own B section makes me think that it's two themes, but then again the searching theme itself feels like a B section to the heroic theme. I don't know, I really don't know much about this stuff. All I know is that Rey's theme has like 5 different sections, so I'm inclined to say they're all just parts of one theme.

Hi Demodex, I've updated my own little thematic catalog to include notation and links for the main themes from Solo, as well as Rogue One finally. With the exception of #8, all of these new themes get *real* workouts in terms of development in this film -- more, I'd wager than most of the new stuff in TLJ!  Not sure of timings yet, and some of my metrical interpretations may be off, but it's a start...
 
1. Young Han Solo (Heroic)
2. Young Han Solo (Searching)
3. Secrets/Crimson Dawn  (Definitely derived from the "Searching" motif but treated pretty independently in terms of rhythm, orchestration, affect throughout Solo)
4. Han & Q'ira
5. Han & Chewie
6. Beckett's Gang
7 .Enfys Nest
8. L-8/Droid Uprising
 
There's some new incidental motifs in this movie too, plus plenty of references to previously established thematic materials (my favorite is the Imperial Troops reference in "Train Heist", and the obvious one that shows up during the surprise cameo at the end...) 
 
*Edited w/ change of name for #3 to reflect what Powell apparently called it.
 
 
Leitmotif Catalogue -- Frank Lehman, 2018.pdf