Goldsmithfan
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Posts posted by Goldsmithfan
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Your comments would normally suffice. But superman has but ONE (or maybe three, damn you Williams!) theme.
That's only because no one after Williams has really tried to write an original Superman theme. There could be more than one theme for the character if composers didn't spend so much time utilizing Williams themes. Look at the Star Trek films for example. Horner didn't utilize Goldsmith's themes. Rosenman didn't quote Horner (but it might have helped). It would help if the flavor changed with the composers. That way, you could see what composers can really do with Superman.
It's probably just because of the fact that these are Williams themes we're talking about. If Goldsmith had scored the film as originally intended, I doubt people would be quoting him. Not because the themes wouldn't have been good, but because he's not John Williams.
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I might get crucified for this, but I don't care:
I'm completely tired of hearing news of a film to utilize themes of the previous film(s) that were composed by someone else. In my opinion, if you want those themes, hire the person who wrote them. Not to say that Williams would necessarily want to score Superman Returns or Jurassic Park III, but it annoys me to no end. If I were a composer and was asked to use someone else's themes for my film, I'd probably refuse.
I can understand making little nods to the previous composer (the Alexander Courage material used oh-so briefly in the Star Trek scores) and that's about it. I think that this trend needs to end very, very, very soon. Let the person you hire write their own material!
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You know what would make this even better! A 25th anniversary edition of the score. Complete. And with NO DIALOGUE!
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None of those! Bring on Alan Silvestri!
Strangely, I had this same thought yesterday while listening to Back to the Future Part III.
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I never made any connection between the two themes. We were watching it on TV one day and my dad compared it to Jurassic Park. The melodies aren't really all that close at all between JP and AS but the scales are classic Williams so at least he recognized that. But as far as BTTF goes . . . I don't think so. Pure Williams.
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anythings better then NOOOOOOOO!!
Sadly, when I saw the film I'd already seen a clip of the notorious "Noooooooooooooooooooooo!" on TV so it wasn't nearly as surprisingly stupid as it was. It was just dumb. And funny. But not as funny.
I've got a better idea for the scene.
He yells, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" and then falls to one knee, crying. However, there are no holes around his eyes for the tears to come out so the audience hears water building up until a stream finally comes out of the mouth hole in the front of the mask. The camera pulls back and there is a wipe to the next scene.
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I always thought that James Cameron lost his mind sometime around Titanic.
I guess I was right.
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Indeed.
Star Trek III is a very good score and the re-use of themes from the previous film is very understandable and fitting.
The overall style of the score is pretty different then that of TWOK BTW, something detractors often choose to ignore
Ex-actly! Star Trek III is a score all its own. The Wrath of Khan was all about action whereas The Search for Spock has much more beauty to it. It's also got a quasi-religious feel to much of it (the music for scenes concerning the Genesis planet). The action is still there, but there's more than just action. It's a much better and fully fleshed-out score.
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I really don't understand why people whine about Horner's reuse of his material from Wrath of Khan in The Search for Spock. He doesn't even come CLOSE to the amount of self-copying as Goldsmith did when he borrowed from The Omen to compose Omen II. Don't get me wrong, I like Omen II, but almost every choral piece is a reworked cue from the first film.
Well Omen II is a sequel and it would make sense for Goldsmith to do that.
Well The Search for Spock was a sequel to The Wrath of Khan so it makes sense for Horner to quote himself. What I'm trying to say is Goldsmith quoted himself a LOT more in Omen II than Horner did in Star Trek III, but people seem to really hate the latter for some reason.
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Thanks for the input. I pretty much agree with everything that was said. In hindsight, my question was probably kind of dimwitted. I mean, if I scored a film, I'd probably remember each cue very well. Each one is a work of art.
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Karen Allen
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I was just listening to the alternate version of Spock's Arrival from TMP when I realized that the arrangement of the main theme that was intended for the approach of his shuttle was used in Star Trek V for the 'Spacedock' section of the unreleased cue Paradise Lost/Spacedock.
This reminds me of something I was going to post a while ago, but never got around to.
When composers quote themselves in a nostalgic fashion (Clash of the Lightsabers in Revenge of the Sith; the original Enterprise fanfare in Nemes) how do they go about remembering exactly which material they want to reinsert. I mean, there were nearly twenty five years between TMP and Nemesis and Goldsmith did a good job of bringing back the material from The Enterprise. The stats were the same for the time lapse between The Empire Strikes Back and Revenge of the Sith. So how exactly do they come about with the idea of going back to one specific part of a score and using it in a sequel. I guess I'm trying to ask how they remember that specific bit from something they've written a quarter of a century ago.
Unless . . . ! The director requests it or something.
In any case, it's always nice to get a little wink from a composer to let us know our attention matters. Either that or it's just something they get a kick out of whether or not we care.
I'll say it's the latter.
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If Horner is chosen to do it chances are he'll re-use every single theme he's done for Star Trek's II and III.
I really don't understand why people whine about Horner's reuse of his material from Wrath of Khan in The Search for Spock. He doesn't even come CLOSE to the amount of self-copying as Goldsmith did when he borrowed from The Omen to compose Omen II. Don't get me wrong, I like Omen II, but almost every choral piece is a reworked cue from the first film.
If you hear Horner's score to The Search for Spock in full, you'll notice that there is a lot more going on in this score than people give it credit for.
If Horner could write like this again, I'd love him to score any new Star Trek film that may come out. But I'd prefer Basil Poledouris.
But if I were in charge, the film wouldn't be a prequel.
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John Williams: You may ask me three questions.
pi: Are you really the greatest film composer ever?
John Williams: Yes.
pi: Really?
John Williams: Yes.
pi: You?
John Williams: Yes, I hope this has been enlightening for you.
I love it!
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I saw the director's cut of E. T. in Los Angeles on its rather fancy premiere night. Boy was I was excited to be there. I was shitting myself with glee. They had all kinds of exotic foods at the concession stand, not just popcorn and sweets but fajitas, soups of all kinds, sushi, shrimp, lobster, chicken fingers and babyback ribs. Aaaaaaaaanyway, I was too excited to eat . . . because I was at the premiere! So I quietly found myself a seat in the auditorium. I figured I should sit about halfway into the seats and about dead-center to get the full effect of the surround sound so that's what I did.
As I'm sitting there, I look in front of me and I see this crazy head of hair in front of me. It was blocking my view. I was about to ask the guy to scrunch down or something, but the movie started just as I was about to so I didn't want to be rude. Well, I sat through the first few scenes of the film, looking around the guy's hair and feeling rather annoyed. I suppose I'd forgotten some of the lines in the film, because it had been a while since I'd seen it at that time. The whole 'penis breath' thing caught me off guard and I realized that if we were all adult enough to take such attacks on our ears, then I could ask this guy to slouch. I lightly tapped him on the shoulder and told him I couldn't see.
The man turned around and it was Steven f#$%ing Spielberg. He quietly apologized and took off his wig! I could see perfectly after that, but I was SHOCKED! I turned to the man next to me and said, "That's Steven Spielberg!" Little did I realize that I'd be staring John Williams in the face when I made the comment. He just smiled politely and replied, "Of course he is. Sushi?" At that moment I realized that he had a whole plate of the stuff. I politely tried a piece but started to gag. I guess raw fish isn't for me. John asked me if I was alright, but I didn't have the heart to tell him it was the sushi. I just said, "I can't believe he's bald . . . no offense." Ol' Johnny laughed and whispered, "See Steve, I told you it's better to go through life admitting your age. It ads a certain grace to the process."
Steve didn't hear the advice. He was snoring.
So the answer to the question is an undeniable YES.
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I recently got this CD and there is a minor digital sounding chirp in track 11 ("Your Wife Knew") and a similar sound, albeit in a different pitch, appears twice in track 22 ("It Won't Sell"). What's that all about? It's nothing huge, but it's enough to be annoying. Especially in this score, of all the ones it could appear in!
Did anyone else hear these?
Thanks.
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I just went through this phase of listening to Star Trek: TMP a lot and I really like the quasi-religious material Goldsmith employed. This got me wondering, what other scores are out there that have a lot of what might be considered spiritual music?
A few Star Wars pieces come to mind, but how about some really out there stuff. I'm sure there's tons out there. I'm just too ignorant/sheltered to know about them!
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I know that Flesh + Blood is also called The Rose and the Sword but I don't know if that's the international title or just a really sucky alternate title.
I guess Hauer is the sword, while Leigh is the rose!
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S*P*Y*S* by Jerry Goldsmith.
I have got to hear that score! I've heard such wonderful things about it! LOL
. . . And I have the guts to call myself a 'Goldsmithfan'!
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Why does the snare drum on track 1 of revenge of the sith sound so bad? Usually it has such a full sound.
I liked it. It has a much drier sound than most snare recordings.
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For the pompous cue . . . I'd play 'The Final Conflict' from the film of the same name. And no one would be allowed to talk or move during the entire 8:32 of it, not even me. I'd just stand there with my fists at my waist, like Superman or something.
For the running in slow-mo, I'd use 'Siege of the City' from Flesh + Blood. Such juxtaposition would be great.
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Conan the Barbarian
TRON
First Blood
Rambo: First Blood Pt. II
Ex-cellent choices!
I was also pleased to see Somewhere in Time mentioned above. I love that score!
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Alien3 comes to mind; the CGI alien looks absolutely ridiculous (it also looked silly back in 1992 by the way);
The alien in Alien 3 was only CG in one shot (the one of its skull cracking). If you're referring to the footage of it running on the walls and ceiling, it's mo-motion, which they CREATED for that film so of course it's going to be a bit rough. In my opinion, it still looks better than all the blue-grey CG extravaganzas we have today (The Matrix Trilogy, The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, King Kong, etc, etc, crap)
One thing that always looks fake is a computer generated person, especially when it's in a live action film and they throw it in because a stunt was too dangerous/complicated. (Harry Potter comes to mind as well as Return of the King and Starship Troopers)
Basically CGI should be a LAST RESORT. It doesn't have to conform to the laws of real physics and everything about it is artificial whereas stop-motion, go-motion, mo-motion, miniature effects, analog bluescreen, rear projection, front projection, analog matte paintings, film cell animation, makeup effects and practical effects all have the upper hand because there's a dimension of reality in each one.
Special effects used to be a smorgasbord of techniques, combining new and old techniques or inventing new things. Nowadays when you watch the Oscars and the award for special effects comes up, all you ever see is an image going from wireframe to 'realistic' CG imagery.
The effects of now look no better than the effects of twenty years ago. In fact, they're quite inferior. Everything looks cartoonish anymore! That's why it's probably so accepted. People aren't saying, "Whoa! That looks real." They're saying, "Whoa! That's totally over-the-top!" And it all is. Not for the better.
Films like Blade Runner, Alien, Star Trek III, RoboCop 2, the ORIGINAL THEATRICAL Star Wars trilogy, The Terminator, RoboCop, Gremlins, Tron, and Terminator 2 will all withstand the test of time much better than any of the garbage being pumped out today. Not only because the stories are much better (even RoboCop 2), but because their special effects were a smorgasbord. Sure, a few I mentioned utilized computer generated effects, but they used them artistically and when needed, unlike now when they use it for EVERYTHING. Again, not all of them have perfect effects by any means (the go-motion Murphy in RoboCop didn't look all that hot, the matte on the go-motion Terminator in T1 wasn't that finessed), but the point is that overall, they're worlds away from any of the crap coming out now.
Anyway, that's my CG rant. I'm not against its use, but I am against its overuse.
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The piano crashes signalled to me that it was not tracked.
Ditto. I like the version in Attack of the Clones about a billion times better than the rendition from The Phantom Menace. Too bad it's so short. I never noticed the little girl thrown in though.
Venturing into GoldsmithLand
in General Discussion
Posted
How can you say that Gremlins 2 and Poltergeist II had too many electronics and then reccomend Supergirl and Legend?!? Legend is the most electronic-packed Goldsmith score I've ever heard (besides the all-synth ones of course). It's loaded with 'em! Supergirl comes in pretty close too!
Personally, I think people pay too much attention to what's electronic and what's accoustic. I just try to listen to the big picture.
Matinee is a pretty good comedy score. It gets into your head and drives you nuts . . . In a nice way. Lots of 50's influenced stuff in there too. I also highly reccomend Hollow Man even though a lot of people hate it. It has a lot of minimalism to it in the first several tracks and then kicks right into high gear, pretty much starting with 'Find Him'. Great stuff. Logan's Run is good too, but there are tons of electronics there during the first half and the climactic cue. (But these are analog!)