SeekUYoda

So, what's left in the minority that you do like?

It's not all love themes, just that one, and just that particular statement of that one. It's because he's the co-principal horn of the LSO and he played first horn on that recording. He's directly responsible for that amazing horn sound - and being a horn player, I'm really impressed. I heard just him playing something and the sound was exactly like the sound at the end of AOTC - he's a whole section by himself!

Ooh, I forgot about that one! I absolutely tingled when I heard it - wow. I liked it more than Fawkes' theme or any other music in that film! Mine too. And there are only two words for the huge love theme statement: Dave Pyatt! I didn't hear the Luke and Leia theme in all of that horn-ing, but I'll listen again.

No, I didn't notice that! Now I'll have to listen as soon as I get home!!!!!! Which instrument has it?

Me too - except I went for Yoda instead. And I don't regret it!

In no particular order except for #1 which is and will always be #1.... 1. Hologram/Binary Sunset - Star Wars: A New Hope 2. Arrival at Tatooine and Flag Parade - Star Wars: The Phantom Menace 3. Confrontation with Count Dooku and Finale - Star Wars: Attack of the Clones (go Dave Pyatt!!!!!) 4. Magic of Halloween - E.T. 5. The Asteroid Field - Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back 6. Han Solo and the Princess - Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back 7. Smee's Plan - Hook 8. Journey to the Island - Jurassic Park 9. The Basket Chase - Raiders of the Lost Ark 10. Pastorale - Concerto for Horn & Orchestra (someday it will be recorded!) I know someone's going to shoot me down for the AOTC track, but I love the tam-tam hit as it goes into the love theme, and the "new" rhythm under the Imperial March. I was surprised to see DOTF on here so much - I hear it and all I can think is "Bach rip-off!" It's exciting and all, but just doesn't do it for me. Zam the Assassin, on the other hand.... I've listened to that one a lot and I still like it, despite the electric guitar. (Come on, how often do you hear an electric guitar used like that in a Williams score? He's branching out!) I second that. And I'm sure that if I owned the JFK CD, some of it would be on the list too!

But this is his last Star Wars score - surely that will warrant some extra effort!

A friend of mine went to a USC horn ensemble concert last week and heard Michael's piece for 12 horns and bassoon, "Bassoonus Interruptus" - he said it was, and I quote, "AMAZING!!!!!!!!" Anybody else heard this? Or did he write a lot of horn ensemble stuff that I don't know about that you've all already discussed 300 posts ago? (I have to confess, I didn't read them all.... just 100 or so and then I skipped to the end).

Just a warning - there really aren't any good (easy or otherwise) arrangements of Williams' stuff. I have a decent arrangement of the Star Wars Special Edition themes in a book that came out c. 1997 - it's published by Warner Bros. and is black with the special edition logo on most of the front. Some things are just unplayable unless you're really really good - the cantina band arrangement is hard because the planing-thirds thing just doesn't work on a piano like it does with saxophones. But the Leia's theme is all right, and the inclusion of "The Emperor's Arrival" from ROTJ is fun because the Emperor's theme is fun to play. In general, Williams just uses too many colors and layers that the piano can't replicate and the piano arrangements are poor copies of the original. I've always been disappointed by the piano reductions, but I keep playing them anyway for some reason. Happy hunting and good luck!

I'm a big Finale fan and use it to do a lot of arranging and transcribing, but I was kind of forced into using it when I went through college. In its favor, once you get used to it, it's very logical. And it gets easier the more you use it - it just takes a while to understand its sometimes strange ways. It also has the most comprehensive and useful "help" file I've ever encountered. And it is the industry standard, or was the last time I tried to publish anything. I've heard good things about Sibelius too...

I think so too. With the exception of celeste, bells, and other "jingly" things - chimes, triangles, sleigh bells, etc., he doesn't write a whole lot of percussion. Bells and celeste are everywhere! Harry Potter, the Olympic themes, Star Wars, the Cowboys - his other favorite percussion instrument is the snare drum, I think. But other than that he doesn't really go nuts on percussion - he lets the orchestra carry the melodies and uses the percussion for effect. (Namely snare drum for military or pompous sorts of things!) Which is brilliant!

Oh my God, and I thought I heard them all. ---------------- Alex Cremers I'm sorry - I really know very little about the changes made except for that when I look at AOTC and TPM versus ANH, they just look clearer. A bit fake, but definitely more vivid. And somehow, I think the sound of the soundtracks reflects that - orchestration, perhaps? So I wasn't trying to offend anybody... I just know what I think it looks like.

hahah Some do, and some don't. In high school, most of players sucked, save one that was fairly decent... and we had one that was awesome, but he graduated my freshman year, so that was that. In college, though, pretty much all of the oboists are very talented - even the last chair oboist! haha LOL Thanks, though I was referring to the way they play the instrument . . . I wondered if they suck in as opposed to blowing out like most players. And yes, French horn takes a while for people to get good at because it's one of the most difficult instruments to play. For me, I'm sure playing the trumpet for eight years before moving on to horn really helped. Ray Barnsbury They don't suck in to play, but they sure look like they do because there's so much back-pressure from blowing so much air through a tiny little opening. Hence the veins popping out and why they can go for such long times without breathing. It's really amazing how different the instruments are to learn. If you give somebody a saxophone and a hundred hours in a practice room, they'll come out sounding much better than someone else with those same 100 hours and a horn, oboe, or bassoon. That's funny, Ray - I played the horn first before starting trumpet, (and played both for a while), but I liked horn better too!

It's quite simple, actually. Just notate which size triangle you want, how big a beater the player should use, and then put notes in the score (on one line, of course, and then write triangle above it.) :-) Just kidding. Best use of the triangle - I don't know if it's the best, but what comes to mind is Smee's Plan from Hook. But I don't have it with me so I can't check to make sure it's there! I think there's a cute little hit towards the end.

I don't think the first four scores were written in the same style at all. Star Wars was written in a very romantic 19th century idiom while all of the other scores are much more modern sounding. Neil I think TPM sounded totaly different than the first three. So did AoTC, but I think that is one of the 5 worst JW scores since the early 70's. I think you're right - TPM and AOTC sound totally different, even though they work with a lot of the same themes. It sounds shinier, there's none of the "old and dusty" sound of ANH-ROTJ. I think it's due to three factors - the film technology has improved so much that it looks cleaner and brighter, the recording industry has really stepped it up, and Williams himself had an awful long time to evolve from that style to his newer style. All composers' styles evolve over their lives - I think JW is entitled to do it too! I really hope that he tries to return to his old style to connect TPM and AOTC with the older trilogy in Ep III. Wouldn't that be cool?

all music is craft, but all music isn't art. Grandma got runover by a reindeer isn't art. Lapti Nek isn't art. Bumper music on your local tv news isn't art. It may be music, but it isn't art. the act of making music is often simple, how many times have you heard the story of a band writing a song in less than 10 minutes on a napkin. Sometimes its simple and sometimes its hard, but it isn't always hard. music is always craft, and seldom art. Can you write a song on a napkin in less than 10 minutes that anyone might pay to hear? I certainly can't! But time is irrelevant, anyway. The early masters - Bach, Mozart, etc. - won contests in pubs and bars and things improvising fugues and I'm sure those were way better than some things that took other people years to write. Bumper music on local tv news isn't art? What if my local TV news uses Williams' Mission Theme? While I completely agree with you and Rogue Leader that most of the modern commercial crap is just that... it can still suck and be art. Composers have been writing music for centuries to (among other reasons) please people, express themselves, and make money, so the commerical part is hardly new. But would you call any of Bach's masses - written both to the glory of God (an expression of worship) and so that he could keep his job as Kapellmeister and pay the bills - not art, just because they was written for money? Art doesn't have to be good. There is good art and bad art, and art that people love and art that people don't understand, or think is unworthy of its title. But if art is defined as something that someone created to try to express a message or a feeling in an intangible way - well, the Backstreet boys are art. Art aimed at a very specific group who want to hear about the way they think love ought to be, or whatever they talk about. It may not speak to me or you, but it must express something to someone who wants to hear it. You can't define art as "music you like" or "good music." There is always art involved in creating music, no matter how much we may dislike how it sounds - the art of playing the bass or the trap set or being a backup singer. I still think all music is art. Not necessarily art I like, but art. And I still can't agree that the act of making music is simple - why do I have to practice every night if it's simple? All music does involve craft... but it is art! Do you mean, instead, that some is extra artistic-sounding or inspired?

There's a great English horn solo in Star Wars: A New Hope - the Jawa theme. That's kind of oboe-esque.... I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

I don't have a lot of non-film associations with his music, but one really vivid exception is Duel of the Fates. Whenever I hear it, I can hear the weird creaky floorboards and the strange smell of the apartment I lived in the summer it came out.

Please! It's not the incest I mean - that's just gross - EW - it's the music that accompanies it that's sexy. Just listen to it and pretend you don't know what it goes with....

Speaking strictly of the themes - apart from any film connotations - music only, not even thinking about what it accompanies in the films - just the notes and nothing else - only the theme, especially at the end of ROTJ when it's thickly orchestrated and has the piano in the background - just the music - got it? :-) Luke and Leia.

Now, wait just a minute! Music is not a simple act - have you ever tried to get any combination of sixth-graders to play the same notes at the same time, or in tune? Or tried to hold two marimba mallets in each hand and produce something recognizeable without dropping any of them? There is nothing simple about music. Not even playing a bass drum! And music - all music - is definitely art. Even all that serial, atonal, and polytonal stuff - the art is in finding the meaning and then finding a way to depict that to someone else by playing it. AOTC may not be Williams' most inspired, groundbreaking, original, or influential score, but it is definitely art because it fits and enhances the film. I can see how it's also "craft" - it's still variation on an older idea, but it's art because it touches people, inspires people, and it has a message (translating the film into a solely-auditory medium). I heard a piccolo solo in one of Williams' concert works - either Sound the Bells or Tributes - on the horn concerto premiere in Chicago that was, the concerto and Mr. Clevenger aside, the most amazing and musical playing I've ever heard. It was mesmerizing, captivating, and absolutely artistic. It wasn't just the result of practicing the lick - it was inspired. It was an art - a creative expression. (And it was outstanding! I've never heard anyone play a piccolo like that, ever! I was astounded!) If you mean that a film score is only art if it's original and breathtaking, well, parts of AOTC are inspired and breathtaking. The scene where Anakin stands where Luke stood and watches the sunset - the same place, the same horn solo, the same key, same orchestration - it's brilliant. In my opinion anyway. But isn't all art kind of subjective? And the Anakin's theme horn solo that was cut from the end - that was art. I had a full description of his character just from listening to those few measures. The (not) simple act of making music IS art!

Except for The Imperial March. K.M. Well, it is kinda weird and not nearly as energetic as the original from ESB, but I still remember what a thrill it was when I heard that on the soundtrack before the movie was out... I have to like it because it was so exciting to hear that and wonder what was going to happen. Also, the accompaniment figure in the ESB/ROTJ version was very rigid and uncompromising... like the Empire. It left very little "empty space" in each measure. So maybe this looser, more open rendition is like the republic at this point - same melody, but the accompaniment isn't quite as repetitive (demonstrating the Emperor being in charge but not having total control yet like he does in ANH) or take up as many beats per measure. Maybe this is an example of JW's "working backwards" with the themes. The accompaniment isn't as developed to represent that the evil plan isn't as developed either. A weird thought, but who knows?

Thank you!!! I never really was big on that theme until I heard it on the AOTC soundtrack, and then I fell in love. It's so innocent-sounding - oh, to play like Dave Pyatt. (co-principal horn in the London Symphony, who played principal on the AOTC recording) I was really shocked by the hack job in AOTC's end credits. It sounds like they picked up the "recap" (from when the film cuts to the end credits) from TPM and plunked it down in AOTC and then (poorly) spliced the love theme (track 2 of AOTC - same key, tempo, etc.) in right after it. Sigh. I loved the original ending because you could hear all three of Anakin's themes, almost at once! That was so cool! My favorite track from that soundtrack is the "Encounter with Dooku and Finale" (or whatever it is... I don't have it with me) - I couldn't believe JW let them make such an inferior edit after he'd recorded such a brilliant ending.

1: What's the highest price you've paid for a soundtrack (Original disc, or Bootleg CD-R) 28 for a SW:SE 2 : What's the lowest price that you've paid for a soundtrack (In a shop or on Ebay Auction) No great soundtrack prices, but I did get Dvorak 9 and Mahler 1- good recordings, too! - for about a dollar each. 3 : Have you ever bought a soundtrack and found it to be a bit of a waste of money?. Which one? The Thomas Crown Affair 4 : Which soundtrack do you have which you feel was the best buy ever (in terms of music) A Star Wars: Special Edition soundtrack 5: Which soundtrack has the best cover in your collection? Far and Away, or SW:AOTC, the Yoda version 6 : Which soundtrack has the worst cover in your collection? Um… 7: Which soundtrack in your collection is the best "listening experience" outside of the movie. Just one? :cry: Star Trek: First Contact or Hook 8: Which soundtrack in your collection, is one that doesn’t work well outside of the movie? 2001: A Space Odyssey 9: Which is the most relaxing soundtrack in your collection? Little Women A: Which is the most bombastic and exciting in your collection? Star Wars: A New Hope B : Which track makes you drive (or ride, if a teenager) like a maniac? Empire Strikes Back – The Asteroid Field! And Confrontation with Dooku and Finale from AOTC C : Which track would you play if you need a pick me up in the morning? The Motorcade from JFK D: Which of your soundtracks has the highest number of tracks on it? Little Women or Phantom Menace Ultimate Edition E: Which of your soundtracks has the lowest number of tracks on it? The Thomas Crown Affair – what a rip! F: Which of your soundtracks has the best liner notes and analysis? Star Wars: Special Editions! G: Do you have a track which repeatedly brings tears to your eyes? No, but when I heard the Richard Sebring and the Boston Pops play Princess Leia’s theme live, I did. H: Why did I switch to Letters after 9, instead of going 10,11,12 etc? Failure to proofread.

Home Alone, of course. And now Lt. Kije - did anybody else like the new "take" on it from the Holiday Pops broadcast?