-
Posts
6,502 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
23
Posts posted by Hlao-roo
-
-
Yo mamma is a good pop-up killer...
...I think. Er. Never mind.
-
for me an ending like that just leaves something to be disired.
A lot of viewers have been complaining about the ostensibly slapped-on, "incongruous" ending...
Maybe Kaminski's gritty cinematography was a bit too infectious... watch the movie again. Pay attention to the story (not the supposed swiss cheese of a plot) this time. Spielberg telegraphs this ending for you all along the way...
-
*Alan tries to imagine Gandalf in a tuxedo...
...oh wait, the Oscars, never mind..
-
Wow
And I think his last 4 scores are all better.
No, they're not. - waves hand -
-
The composers you mention don't set off beyond film music I believe. Incomparable with Williams.
1. Except for the Lord of the Rings Shore hasn't done anything equally notable.
2. Shore had been working on Lord of the Rings score twice-thrice as long as it usually takes these days (it "usually" takes 3-10 weeks to come up with score for a 2-hour movie; Prokofiev usually devoted 3 month-period for composing large orchestral pieces). Don't want me to compare LotR to Prokofiev's or Mahler's stuff. Music in LotR is not as big as it sounds from your stereo although it's sturdily impressive. Quality is not necessarily predicated in robustness. Have someone play you themes from LotR on violin and compare it to the same performance of themes for instance from Dvorak's "American" string quartet.
Hey, I like LotR score very much and bow low before Howard's achievement. But this disappoints me that so many people favors this over other noteworthy scores but aside from the largest gatherable ensemble and doubled chorus it's not all that gorgeous. At least I don't hear so.
It too often seems to me people judge the "quality" by no other merits than number of themes, their melodiousness and power coming from each sections of the orchestra during action passages. But music has more to it.
Uh...note that I never mentioned anything specifically about The Lord of the Rings, which I do think is great, though...
The Yards, eXistenZ, Panic Room and Se7en are all highly "notable" scores, in my opinion...and believe it or not, I'm not judging them by "number of themes" or "melodiousness"...which shouldn't be too surprising...
-
8O
Morn - Who finds the score overrated...
Not as overrated as John Williams's last four scores have been.
-
So why is that composers such as Don Davis and Howard Shore manage to find the time to orchestrate their own works and manage to maintain such a high quality of composition...?
Mr. Shore, at least, is well able to produce at least two scores a year, as well.
Mr. Williams has a busier concert schedule, I suppose?
-
Here we go:
400-page edition, written by Argentinian film director Roberto Aschieri and Chilean composer Fabrizio de Negri Murillo, includes a detailed biography, an extensive compilation of quotes and opinions by Williams, pictures, sheet music excerpts and in-depth analysis on every Williams score. The new book, already available in Chile, has been approved by Williams himself and will be also distributed Argentina, Mexico and Spain.Roberto Aschieri, author of 'Over the Moon' says an English translation of the book 'might be carried out if he gets the necessary support from those who might be interested in taking the job'. Aschieri also points out that, in any case, 'due to the large amount of pages and scientific analysis, it'll take time'
-
I believed the title (or at least part of it) is Over the Moon, published in a certain Latin American country...and I should definitely shoot myself for not remembering its name. : (
-
No, it says a lot about how Williams is a total master of orchestration
No, it says a lot about what John Williams and his unrivalled team of orchestrators can (or can't) accomplish.
-
For the life of me I get bored around track 7-8.
,so I haven't finished it all.I like the last part of Track 1 a nd 16.
K.m.Disapointed.
Moi, it's not so much that I find it boring, it's that it's decidedly lacking in freshness...
Perhaps I'll actually attempt to write a "review" for once...
-
Don't care,it all sounds prrety much alike.
K.M.
Ain't that the truth...
-
Get "The Very Best of Michael Nyman - Film Music 1980 - 2001" -- I don't think this guy gets enough recognition.
-
- might be a good idea to bring binoculars, as the stage can be very far away if you have crappy seats
- arrive early, as parking is hellish and takes place on fields
Thanks.
-
Unfortunatly, shed tickets were sold out for the Aug 4th concert, so I'll be on the lawn for that one. I'll be in the shed for the 3rd.
I've been very lucky in the past in terms of view, both times getting a seat that was within one chair of the aisle, so I;'m hoping for the same luck this time.
Yeah, I'll be in the shed for the 3rd, too. This'll be my first JW concert; I'm excited.
-
The instrumentation is the best part of the score!
Says a lot about the score as a whole, doesn't it?
-
I mean, you remember how unoriginal and unsurprising the first HP score was??
Good. Then Ross will perhaps make it more original.
I'm not agreeing with how you described the first score, but even if it was so unoriginal and unsurprising, that doesn't mean it wasn't spectacular. Ross needs to go with the flow, and not try to make it too original compared the first one. There should be uniue and original elements, but it should have the overall same "sound." Like Star Wars scores are all diferent, but they are all definitely part of the same group.
Ray Barnsbury
Well, remember, John Williams is setting the "tone" with his new themes and his 40 minutes of original music.
I wouldn't mind Mr. Ross varying the instrumentation a bit more...all the whimsical string/woodwind whirls/twirls became decidedly annoying after a while.
On a unrrelated note, I wouldn't mind them mixing the score somewhat lower this go around, with hordes of critics last time blaming Williams entirely (and unfairly) for the admittedly frequently distracting musical effects.
-
His orchestrations are unparalleled and he is the LAST of the great old school composers.
Yeah, but remember that Williams has an entire legion of orchestrators to help him with very many of his scores. Don't tell me he hires all of them just to be copyists.
-
John Williams has had little impact on film music, and virtually no impact on "art music". He will be remembered for the revival of leitmotif, with A New Hope and/or the Empire Strikes Back as his crowning achievements (a lot of other works are good, but I think history will regard these two, esp. because of their use of leitmotifs, as his strongest works).
You might also note that many credit him, accurately or not, with the revival of the extensive use of the symphony orchestra in scoring films.
-
Guys, someone e-mailed me this this evening. Tell me what you think:
***THE FACTS:+Precogs detect only the likely occurrence of murder, premeditated and crimes of passion are two examples of murder that are illustrated.
+The precogs do not accurately detect whether the murder will occur or not.
+You do not have to have knowledge of the future for the precogs to file an incorrect majority report.
+Dr. Hineman designs the precogs so that the Minority Reports are stored or backed up within the precogs memory.
+Anderton has advanced knowledge of all murders that occur in the city.
?Anderton has predetermined he will kill the abductor of his son if he ever finds him.
?Burgess has predetermined that he will kill to save Precrime.
-Burgess hires someone to kill Agatha's mother knowing that they will be stopped.
-The precogs detect this first killing, but Agatha has a minority report, which is later erased by Burgess and leads to Anderton's investigation of the entire lockup and eventual discovery of minority reports.
-Burgess then kills Agatha's mother in the exact same way as the attempted murder so that Precrime can exist.
-The visions of the second attempt of killing is ignored as an echo and is deleted.
-The minority report of Agatha's mother's killing is also erased by Burgess, as are other minority reports so that Precrime can exist.
-Agatha shows Anderton the images of her mother's case, which leads Anderton to investigate.
-Anderton investigates and discovers the dozens of missing files.
-Anderton tells his discovery to Burgess. (This is where I figured out who was the bad guy very early on in the movie.)
-Burgess decides that Anderton must be stopped in order for Precrime to go on because he has discovered the minority reports and he is looking closely at the case where Burgess committed murder.
-Burgess frames Anderton in cooperation with Crow.
***PLOT HOLE: The details of Burgess and Crow's plan are never completely fleshed out in the film. We are told merely that Crow was hired by Burgess to fool Anderton into believing that he was his son's abductor. We are never told how Burgess planned for Crow and Anderton to meet. This is the most glaring error of the entire story and has caused much confusion over the film. It is possible to assume that at the instant that Burgess created the arrangements with Crow for his meeting with Anderton and because of Anderton's predetermined convictions to kill the man that he believes abducted his son, a murder report is instantly filed by the precogs.
-The precogs file a report of Anderton killing Crow 36 hours before time.
***PLOT HOLE: The precogs prediction of the Anderton's murder is where most people recognize the potential "paradox" in the entire timeline of the story. The report that the precogs file is based upon the likely hood that Anderton because of his unique position at Precrime can see any report of himself committing murder. Any scenario that Burgess potentially setup for Crow to meet Anderton is a logical impossibility and can never occur because of Anderton's position to always read the future. As a result of this the precogs see the only possible and likely future with Agatha in the room led by Anderton's curiosity.
-The precogs as always predict the time, placement, and individuals involved around a potential murder correctly.
-What they do not predict correctly is whether the murder actually occurs.
In the movie we see twice that precogs do not predict murders correctly.
***Idiotic plot point: Anderton is allowed security clearance into the Temple where he abducts Agatha. There could be infinite explanations for this (bureaucracy, incompetence, overconfidence, Anderton's high ranking position, etc.), but none are given or even suggested.
-Anderton abducts Agatha and takes her to Rufus with the intention to have her non-existent minority report of Crow's murder recorded.
-Witwer sees Agatha is in the room where the murder potentially takes place in one of the images and tries to stop Anderton from abducting her.
-When Anderton escapes with Agatha, Witwer tells the squad not to bother going after him showing them the image of Agatha in the room as proof that they will not catch Anderton.
***Logic problem: Witwer's logic at this point is another oversight in the film. It was never stated in the film that murders had to be prevented at the moment just before they are about to occur. No one on the precrime squad would agree with Witwer's assessment that Anderton would definitely get away with Agatha if they pursued him because they constantly stop murders that are presented in images from the precogs. The precrime squad understands that they have the power to stop the events of the future from taking place so why would they not pursue Anderton. This potential logic error lends credence to the belief that the precogs always predict the circumstances of time, placement, and individuals correctly in their premonitions.
-Witwer figures out where Anderton would have to take Agatha to have her mind read by finding out who created Anderton's computer interface.
-A squad does pursue Anderton to the cyber parlor.
***Logic problem: Why would they now send a squad after Witwer decided that it was a useless pursuit. Perhaps they finally came to their senses and realized the logic error Witwer originally made. This is not stated or suggested.
-At the cyber parlor Anderton has Agatha's report of Crow's murder recorded on one of Rufus's machines.
-Anderton finds out that there is no minority report of his case and that Agatha saw the future exactly as it is leading to happen.
-Agatha also plays back her minority report of her mother's killing.
?The recording of Agatha's mother's minority report is left in Rufus's cyber parlor and discovered by Witwer.
?The discovery of this minority report recording will lead to Witwer's death, but because Agatha has been removed from the Temple the precogs can not predict Witwer's murder.
-In the mall/escape sequence Agatha demonstrates that she has more than just the ability to see murders.
-Agatha demonstrates the ability to see the short-term future by telling Anderton what to do and determining what others around them will do.
***Plot deviation: The mall sequence with Agatha demonstrates abilities that deviate from anything that has to do with the plot of the movie. In this sequence she has the ability to predict the weather forecast and to tell another woman that her boyfriend knows that she's having an affair. These abilities slightly deviate from those she is said to have earlier in the movie.
-As they exit the mall Anderton sees the billboard with the man with sunglasses, which leads him to Crow's building.
?Anderton finds the pictures of his son in Crow's room and confesses his long term intentions to kill his son's abductor.
?Agatha begins to convince Anderton that he does not have to kill Crow because he knows the future.
***Unclear Plot Objective: The script/story writers make a point of having Anderton confess the two things he has thought about ever since the day that his son was kidnapped at this moment. One is what his son would look like and the other is what he would do to the person that kidnapped his son. It is possible that this piece of information is given to us to explain why the precogs would pick up on this murder 36 hours ahead of time. If Anderton has held the convictions to kill the man he believes is responsible for taking his son then the likelihood that Anderton would pull the trigger on a man that confesses to this is extremely high.
-Agatha tries hard to convince Anderton that he does not have to pull the trigger and that he is in control because unlike all of the other people he has arrested he was aware of the future.
-Anderton's watch indicates that the murder of Crow did not occur at the time that the precogs had predicted.
-At this moment it is proven that Precrime is flawed and that the precogs do not predict murders infallibly even if they can predict the most likely scenarios.
?Crow confesses that he was setup to have Anderton kill him for a pay off to his family but does not say by whom.
***Plot hole: At this point we are only given half of the bread crumb trail we needed to figure out how Anderton was supposed to kill Crow. It is never revealed how Anderton was intended by Burgess to meet or end up inside of Crow's apartment. The dots are completely left unconnected.
-After Crow confesses he was a fraud and had nothing to do with Anderton's son, he uses Anderton's gun to commit suicide.
-The precogs can only detect potential murders and would not have detected this suicide even if they had been functioning up to this point.
-Witwer investigates the mistaken crime scene and becomes extremely suspicious because of the overwhelming evidence that is blatantly left out for them.
-Witwer collects Anderton's gun and visits Burgess.
?Witwer gives Burgess Anderton's gun and shows him the findings of Agatha's recorded minority report of her mother's death where the wind is blowing in the opposite direction.
?There is no mask revealing when Witwer shows the recording or when Agatha shows them in the cyber parlor.
?Burgess kills Witwer with Anderton's gun because he knows that the precogs are not functioning without Agatha.
-Anderton goes to his wife's home and explains everything that he knows to her.
***Unclear Plot: At this point it is unclear if Anderton realizes he will be apprehended and gives his wife everything she needs to get him out of jail and find who is really guilty. ?We see that Anderton leaves his eyeball with his wife so there must have been some planning on his part.
-While in Anderton's house Agatha again demonstrates powers beyond what she is said to have at the beginning of the story.
-Agatha is able to tell the Andertons details about how their son would have been at specific time periods in his potential life.
***Plot deviation: Once again Agatha demonstrates powers, which alter the time continuum rules of the movie in a way that is either confusing or misleading to the audience. It lends credence to the theory that the precogs are capable of seeing alternate timeline scenarios or dimensions. And if this is the case then what is to prevent the precogs from showing Anderton a vision of the future that is not a result of him seeing the future. As long as the images that they showed him have Agatha in the room we know that the precogs are seeing a future where Anderton is aware of his future. The plot of the movie makes much more sense if the precogs are only capable of seeing a future where Anderton would be aware of his future. However if they are capable of seeing alternate timelines as Agatha demonstrates in Anderton's home then why don't they see a vision where Anderton kills Crow without using Agatha to get there? This is unanswered. It is possible that Agatha only evokes this ability for the Andertons' personal and long term benefit and the machine the precogs are hooked up to at the Temple eliminates these type of improbable scenarios through a complex mathematical formula. Perhaps we should look to a Beautiful Mind for explanation?
-At this point Agatha screams for Anderton to run.
?This is somewhat confusing because Anderton is calm when caught, assures his wife that things are okay, then seems to either look to Agatha for advice on what he should do, reassurance on whether the future will work out in his benefit since she can see that, or to convey that everything is going according to their plans.
-Anderton is given a halo and charged with killing Crow and Witwer.
?Anderton's wife has a conversation with Burgess where she mentions Agatha's mother's case that her husband was trying to figure out.
?Burgess claims that he doesn't remember the case, but he makes a silly slip-up where he accidentally mentions her drowning.
-Anderton's wife now suspects something and Burgess probably is already planning to figure out a way to get rid of her.
?Andertons' wife stares at the box that contains her husbands guns and personal items.
-She breaks her husband out of jail with his gun and his eyeball.
***Silly plot point: I think most people after the second time this happens are chuckling at the movie and not with it when Anderton's identification allows him high level clearance access to a lockup that he is now being held in. Complete nonsense. Although the movie shows that security is so lax that the entire institution is only guarded by a single handicapped officer. Security obviously was not a major concern for this establishment.
-Anderton calls Burgess while his wife looks on the reception.
?At the precrime headquarters they receive the minority report recording with instructions to broadcast at the reception.
-The precogs detect another potential crime of passion murder and show that Burgess is going to shoot Anderton with the honorary gun that he just received.
-Anderton is standing with the Washington monument right behind him.
?Anderton and Burgess confront each other where Anderton presents Burgess with a check mate ultimatum.
?Anderton tells Burgess that he must either decide to kill him and wear a halo or restrain himself and not kill Anderton and show all that Precrime is a flawed failure.
***Plot Hole: Anderton has no way of knowing that the precogs ever detected a murder when he presents this choice to Burgess. If Burgess restrained himself and there was never a precog alert then it would prove absolutely nothing. Anderton presenting this ultimatum suggests that he is aware of the precrime warning which there is no explanation of in the film.
-Burgess commits suicide and does not commit murder.
-This is the second time that we see the precogs have made a mistake in predicting the future.
-We also see that you don't need to be aware of the future to change it because Burgess never saw himself shooting Anderton and yet he chooses not to shoot him.
I'd give the movie 2 1/2 stars partially because of the sloppy plot, partially for the moronic whodunit, and the happily ever after ending. Everything else I thought was good, premise, special effects, acting, symbolism, etc. I don't think they put as much work into the movie as they should have. It could have been a great movie but because of their laziness with the story it was just good.
-
I also see her
- Gamecube, who is just trying to raise his # of posts
I see we have a dedicated gamer among us.
-
Poltergeist is the Steven Spielberg film, that he didn't film, or did he? Doesn't matter. Jerry Goldsmith subbing? for JW, writes another horror score that not only manages to provide chills, and thrills, but gives a gentleness, and childlike presense to the film about a family in peril. The score is a revelation of what music does for the horror film. It enhances and elevates from schlock to shock. If it were not for E.T., the Oscar would have been Jerry's.
Chills are in that score? Where? And Thrills? If you mean the action music. The childlike presense is cool though. The score has very good action music and a great theme, but I really don't consider it a masterpiece. Sorry. :twisted:
Morn - Who finds it interesting though that Goldsmith thinks his score is better than ET
Don't be silly, Morn. Nothing Goldsmith has written is less than an absolute masterpiece.
-
You guys terrify me with your insistence on classifying Williams using what most people I know consider a highly subjective term.
-
Geez, is Dinko trying to join all the film music message boards ever created?
Anyway, Dinko, most of us are just disappointed because we wanted a Williams score. Sure, we should be thankful with the approx. 40 min., but we're greedy, what can we say? ; )
And, of course, there's that Oscar issue I raised that no one else (understandably) cares about...
Anyone know any good popupkillers?
in General Discussion
Posted
At least they're frank and upfront with you, not like those sneaky, go-behind-your-back "pop-unders"...