Film composers' favorite composer

[jsawruk 0]

While we all have our opinions about every composer, I was wondering what the composers think about each other.

I got this idea to find out who film composers like after learning that Jim Venable's favorite composers are all film composers and include James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, George Fenton, Bernard Hermann, Alex North, and of course, JW himself!

But who does JW and other composers think are good?

Just wondering

[scissorhands 16]

If I'm not wrong Williams likes Elgar.

However, his favourite film composer is Bernard Herrmann, and if he has to choose amongst the living composers, his fav would be Jerry Goldsmith. This is what he said in an interview.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Among the younger generation of composers, Mr Williams has noted Thomas Newman in particular.

[scissorhands 16]

Among the younger generation of composers, Mr Williams has noted Thomas Newman in particular.

Thomas Newman? Oh, no!

His music is simply unbearable! :oops:

[Morn 8]

Goldsmith thinks North, Waxman, Williams and Rozsa are great.

Williams thinks that Herrmann, Steiner, Korngold and Goldsmith are great.

Note Williams has also said that he likes Horner.

Amoung classical composers, he likes Prokofiev, Elgar and Stravinsky. He's a big fan of English and Russian classical music.

[Morn 8]

Bah humbug, I like Tom!

[scissorhands 16]

Bah humbug, I like Tom!

But you can't deny that American Beauty and Erin Brockovich have the SAME music. He surely photocopied the sheet music.

[jsawruk 0]

Ok, so we have 3 composers so far. Any others?

Who do Shore, Elfman, Bernstein, Davis, Horner, Goldsmith, et al. like?

[tpigeon 3]

i know Elfman loves Goldsmith

[bruckhorn 105]

When I asked David Raksin which young composers he liked, he told me that he likes Patrick Doyle.

Doyle is in his late forties. Uh, I guess that's young for the octogenarian Raksin...

bruckhorn

[Morn 8]

I know Horner likes Prokofiev and Goldsmith. I know Elfman loves Herrmann. Shore? No idea. Davis, Williams, Goldsmith, Randy Newman and Alex North.

[Omen II 1,235]

I seem to recall reading that many of the 'Golden Age' film composers rated Hugo Friedhofer's music very highly (not to mention his skills as an orchestrator). I think the line was that Friedhofer was "the film composer's film composer".

Although it is common for fans to note similarities between John Williams's music and that of Erich Wolfgang Korngold, Miklos Rozsa and Alfred Newman, I reckon that his music owes a bigger debt overall to Hugo Friedhofer.

Damien

Seven Cities of Gold (HF)

[Figo 2]

Friedhofer is an underrated composer, primarily because he did do so many of the great orchestrations, working closely with Korngold and Steiner. He was the invisible hand behind the "Warner Brothers sound."

Of course, Friedhofer's The Best Years of Our Lives remains one of the all-time classics.

[Morn 8]

North has been called the film composer's composer too.

[scissorhands 16]

North has been called the film composer's composer too.

Why?

[RomanticStrings 10]

I'm not a film composer... yet, but My favorites are Williams, Goldsmith, and Horner. I call them my J Trio. I find it fascinating that my three favorites have a mutual respect for each other, and that they enjoy each other's music.

~Conor

[Morlock 11]

I know people don't really like him here, but I saw an interview with Hans Zimmer in which he was asked 'Who out there is writing really good music?' and he aswered 'Well, John Ottman and Thomas Newman are definatly on there way up, most of Morricone's stuff is still great, and, of course, there's always John Williams'

Say what you will about his music, (I like it) he is IMO the best composer in interviews.

Williams has said that the composers with greatest influence on him were, first and foremost Herrmann, who introduced him into the world of film scoring, then Rosza, North, Newman, Krongold and Tiomkin, for whom he served as orchestator for 'The guns of Navarone'.

[Hitch 57]

I've always stated here on this board that you should never underestimate the power of Hugo Friedhofer's music....his score to AN AFFAIR TO REMEMBER is surely the best tear-jerking music I've heard this side of the Atlantic. Forget Morricone suger-sweet score to the remake LOVE AFFAIR, Friedhofer's will always be the best. That last scene with Cary (ROT) Grant and Deborah Kerr still gets to me after 50 years.

Hitch, who had many an affair that he cares to remember....bless your heart!

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Based on what Moen told me I think it is safe to say Jerry Goldsmith is not James Horner's favorite composer and vice versa.

[Hitch 57]

Horner never really forgave Goldsmith when he denied Horner permission to marry his daughter. Jerry told Horner the hack, "to take a hike back to Pasadena" and for him "to stop imitating his legendary work."

For the record, executives at Universal were convinced that Horner and Goldsmith were one and the same person. I tried to explain that Goldsmith was not related to the Weinstein Brothers.

Off the record, the expletives that Horner used on Goldsmith were blatantly OTT....I heard everything. Alma wrote excellent shorthand that day and has a copy of it somewhere....so if anyone wants a copy......somewhere in there is the line "ALIEN SUCKS"....Alma thought he was joking.....turned out Fox Studios really did have an Alien Sucks there.

Hitch LOL in giddy mood again.....I'm gonna miss these flesh-stretching sessions, my dear.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

OUCH!!!

Goldsmith gave it to Horner like Mrs. Bates gave it to Janet Lee eh Hitch?

[Morn 8]

North has been called the film composer's composer too.

Why?

Frequently sited as an influence for newer film composers. Barry, Goldsmith and Williams have all rated him very highly. Plus don't forget he sounds more like modern film music than any other composer of that time, he is a large influence on modern film music. And he was very complex and broke new ground.

[Ollie 1,059]

I remember reading somewhere that Goldsmith liked Elliot Goldenthal and Cliff Eidelmen(where has he disappeared too?).

[Morn 8]

Good question. One great score, and then.. where he go?

[ZAMBELIS 0]

very interesting question. as a matter of fact when John Williams began working in the movies as an orchestrator he had a reputation as being the best orchestrator working in Hollywood since Hugo Friedhofer who thought very highly of him. Bernard Herrmann also thought Williams had great talent. Williams was also praised by Henry Mancini, jerry Goldsmith, Patrick Doyle, Michael Kamen, Danny elfman, Andre Previn, Seiji Ozawa. Actually most film composers today think of him as the last true master. He really IS.

[mahler3 478]

Among the younger generation of composers, Mr Williams has noted Thomas Newman in particular.

Thomas Newman? Oh, no!

His music is simply unbearable! :oops:

Put aside the American Beauty cliche's, and check out 'Little Women' & 'The Shawshank Redemption'. Two wonderful scores!

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Actually most film composers today think of him as the last true master. He really IS.  

*sigh* I always get a little teary eyed when I read something like this. :cry:

Ray Barnsbury

[Rogue_Leader 2]

All comosers from now on should worship John Williams like a deity.

I command it be so!!!! :evil:

[Morn 8]

Perhaps they do :?

[The Five Tones 302]

My JW encounter was during my employment at a chichi music store nine years ago. He was in town sussing out the use of the Toronto Mendelssohn Choir in SL as he admired them (this never came to fruition). He bought tons of CDs, among them of course were many by English composers. I remember what I said the moment I spotted him browsing -- "John Williams is in Vaughan Williams!"

Anyway, saving the long story for another topic, during our chat he praised that composer and his "A Lark Ascending."

[Figo 2]

The man has good taste.

[Morn 8]

He doesn't like Psycho!

[jasonblueeyes 0]

I also know that Elfman's other inspiriation besides Herrman is Nino Rota.

You can really here Rota's influence in the first Pee-Wee movie.

[Eplicon 53]

A lot of film composers, interestingly enough, aren't really big film music fans like we are. They tend to list classical composers as their favorites more than they do their contemporaries.

[jsawruk 0]

A lot of film composers, interestingly enough, aren't really big film music fans like we are.  They tend to list classical composers as their favorites more than they do their contemporaries.

That's fine. Who are their favorite classical composers then?

[Guest]

A lot of film composers, interestingly enough, aren't really big film music fans like we are.

Oh really? And how exactly would you know that?

They tend to list classical composers as their favorites more than they do their contemporaries.

For pretentious reasons or to promote themselves.

AI

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Well film music is still a young field as far as music goes. If film composers are not big fans of it it would be because they grew up with the classics like Mozart and Beethoven. Back when they were young film composers were not as celebrated as today.

[Guest]

Well film music is still a young field as far as music goes.

Is it? Compared to what?

If film composers are not big fans of it it would be because they grew up with the classics like Mozart and Beethoven.

I see, then why aren't they classical composers?

Back when they were young film composers were not as celebrated as today.

Were they not? You seem to be awfully knowledgable about music don't you.

AI

[RomanticStrings 10]

I think that movie composers talk of classical composers a lot because that is who inspired them. Of course they're going to mention the greats of classical music. They inspire just about everyone. I think they don't say a whole lot about film composers because there were only film composers since the early 20th century. However, I aspire to be a film score composer, but my favorites are movie composers (as well as classical composers). Granted, I'm only sixteen and have no clue whether that aspiration will ever take shape. John Williams grew up with mostly only classical music. There weren't many notable film scores in that time. Now, there is an abundance of great film music. Enough to, I hope, inspire many young musicians, including me.

~Conor

[Figo 2]

AI, your posts in this thread seem to be particularly quarrelsome. I would expect something like this from me, but you? What bee got in your bonnet?

Contrary to whatever preconceived notions you may hold about classical music -- snooty gentlemen with pince-nez and matronly women with large bosoms gazing through opera glasses -- liking it does not necessarily denote pretentiousness. Or do you think Williams is putting on airs when he says he loves Elgar and Vaughan Williams? Perhaps you should give them a listen as well, sometime. You may like them, too. Of course, then some here may label you pretentious. :roll:

And yes, film music is still a very young field. Composers have only been writing original scores for something like seventy years. That's a blink of the eye next to what we now regard as classical music, which in some people's estimation starts in the baroque era with composers like Bach and Handel, but in reality stretches back as far as the Middle Ages. It is a noble tradition. To outright dismiss all of western musical heritage because you prefer James Newton Howard is kind of silly.

I've been thinking about film music as an art form lately, and I think the reason I am so disappointed with most of what is being done today is because the music itself is coming into its own. Which means it is moving further away from its classical roots, and people like Korngold and Steiner, and more toward an "if it works, use it" kind of philosophy. It's not necessarily a positive evolution, IMHO -- too many scores these days come off as keyboard improvisations or New Age mush -- but it is an evolution which makes film music a distinguishable genre. And before anyone gets defensive at my assessment, I understand the problem is with me and not with the increasingly unsophisticated and dumbed down scores. The music after all should first and foremost support the images on screen. But an awful lot of what is being written today winds up sounding pretty thin on disc. I'm not sure at what point writing technically assured music became antithetical to film scoring, but I'm guessing it has as much to do with time constraints and musically ignorant filmmakers as it does with anything else.

Has it ever occurred to you, AI, that a big reason many composers write for film is the oldest in the book -- money? Do you know how difficult it is to make it as a composer? How hard it is to earn bread toiling at something which, although a labor of love and enormously fulfilling, is also incredibly time-consuming and intellectually draining? Money problems have plagued even the greatest composers. Everybody knows Mozart was buried in a pauper's grave. In the 20th century, people tend to forget that some of classical music's biggest names turned to film to supplement their income. It was not for prestige alone that Aaron Copland, William Walton, Sergei Prokofiev, Dmitri Shostakovich, Ralph Vaughan Williams, Malcolm Arnold, Arthur Honegger, Mario Castelnuovo-Tedesco, John Ireland, George Antheil, and Benjamin Frankel all turned to the cinema. Even Stravinsky and Schoenberg would have done it, but they couldn't handle the rigors. Some of Stravinsky's would-be film work turned up in his concert pieces Symphonic Ode (which would have been heard, presumably, in the Orson Welles Jane Eyre) and Four Norwegian Moods.

You can look down your nose at the classics all you like, AI. But then what makes you any better than the stuffed shirt gazing through his monacle? The film industry has never been too proud to accept classical composers. It's too bad that you are.

[The Five Tones 302]

And yes, film music is still a very young field.  Composers have only been writing original scores for something like seventy years.  That's a blink of the eye next to what we now regard as classical music, which in some people's estimation starts in the baroque era with composers like Bach and Handel, but in reality stretches back as far as the Middle Ages.

Yes, indeed.

The music after all should first and foremost support the images on screen.  But an awful lot of what is being written today winds up sounding pretty thin on disc.

The problem is that the kind of music you lament does support the images on the screen, but only in the way that the images in pop videos support the music, in a shallow, hastily approached way. I am not saying that synthesized scores can't be great (or that pop videos aren't entertaining in their way), there are many examples to the contrary, but there is a greater potential for instant disposability with this kind of approach.

Then again, this is not necessarily an MTV-era epidemic. There are lots of dialed-up scores throughout film history, particularly in the 1960's, after the decline of the studio system in Hollywood.

It would be great if there were more directors like Spielberg (and at one time Lucas) who understood the idea of sound/image exchange/dialogue to the the extent that they they are willing to allow and encourage composers to create original works of lasting value through actual collaboration rather than as an afterthought.

[Figo 2]

I forgot to add, in addition to the dual problems of time and ignorance, the other obstacle film scores face is the question of commercial viability. A studio looks at the bottom line. If a film grosses $300 million dollars, they pat themselves on the back and think they did a fine job, and then of course, they want to repeat the success. If people are lining up around the block to see a film about a bunch of supermen blowing the shit out of each other on a CGI landscape, with all kinds of cool computer-manipulated martial arts effects and fast rock video-style editing, the music becomes of secondary importance. If consumers buy the soundtrack on the basis of liking the film and because they want "inspired by" pop songs, the execs will take note of that, as well. How the next Korngold, Rozsa, Bernstein or Williams is expected to surface under those kind of conditions, I don't know.

[Ollie 1,059]

Well said Figo, Well said indeed.

[Frosty 0]

8O

Well put, Figo.

The films themselves have gotten away from a theatrical influence and have come into the "how many images can we bombard people with in as short amount of time as possible". God forbid that Michael Bay hold on an image for more than 1 1/2 seconds. I think even Lucas has fallen into that trap. People nowadays can only process information in 3-minute incriments, less people become bored with it. Composers don't have time to build anything let alone something meaningful.

I think Goldsmith's work lately shows what can happen to even the best. His scores have become simplified to the point that it almost sounds like he tries to put it off as long as possible, like he's alomost bored with the process. Goldsmith hasn't scores a movie in the last 10 years that I think he has been really interested in or pushes him into a place where he can become the Goldsmith of old again. There is no lacking in Goldsmith's talent, just interest.

Williams on the other hand, has been able to write his own ticket and choose things that will push him in different areas.

As a medium, film scoring has suffered because the films themselves aren't that interesting to begin with. I sight XXX as an example: 'tis CRAP!!! Why should I care? I don't care about explosions and falling off of bridges and escaping avalanches anymore. Waste of time. No substance what-so-ever. Hey, even I am a fan of escapism, but there are times I wish I could escape from the crap that I'm bombarded with. 3-minute blips again. No composer can distiguish themselves these days because there isn't time to do it. The craft itself has been lost and most composers aren't trained well enough to be interesting. There is no time to be interesting. Anything over 2 1/2 hours is considered an art film and doesn't make money because theatres can't fill the seats. Whatever happened to movies like "Seven Samurai"? A 3 hour movie where you are drawn into it and never let down until the end credits. Movies like "Pearl Harbor" are made. A 3-hour piece of shit that is an insult to everything that happened at Pearl Harbor, and Michael Bay has the balls to say thats how it happened!!!

What can composers do in a medium where the majority of films are made to bombard the eyes, numb the brain, make us go deaf with explosions and then feel sad about a character with as much depth as a empty shot-glass? The composers can try, even when the obnoxious pop tune that has nothing to do with the movie obliterates that feeling 2 seconds after it happens.

Sad days, my friends :?

[Hitch 57]

Now...these WERE real threads...when everyone used to have intelligent posts about film scoring. God I miss the Cold War.

[Morlock 11]

[Romão 2,274]

I know Shore's favorite score is Takemitsu's Ran.

[ChuckM 1]

I didn't realize at first that I was reading such an old thread, but everyone kept talking about Goldsmith as if he were still alive. Made me wonder for a second.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I know people don't really like him here, but I saw an interview with Hans Zimmer in which he was asked 'Who out there is writing really good music?' and he aswered 'Well, John Ottman and Thomas Newman are definatly on there way up, most of Morricone's stuff is still great, and, of course, there's always John Williams' Say what you will about his music, (I like it) he is IMO the best composer in interviews.

HZ's favorite score is Assault On Precinct 13 by John Carpenter. In his interview about Backdraft, he says he thinks he's really bad at action and people like Alan Silvestri, Jerry Goldsmith, and John Williams are really good at it. I think Ennio Morricone his is favorite composer, he's mentioned him a few times in interviews, and homages can be heard in a few of his scores. Actually, I think there is even an entire interview of him talking about Morricone. In fact, here it is:

He is the best composer in interviews.

[Ollie 1,059]

Now...these WERE real threads...when everyone used to have intelligent posts about film scoring. God I miss the Cold War.