Last note in POA soundtrack

[pi 0]

to me that doesnt sound like a real celeste, i think that was a giga studio insert. Listen to the tambre of the tone. If so it is a very wierd ending for a JW piece. (Last track last note). any one else think so?? Why is this track even on the CD? Any one of us could have made a track like that, give us more unrealesed stuff! (Ok enough complaining though it is a superb soundtrack!)

[tpigeon 3]

I'm not sure about the last note, I always just thought that Williams was just trying something slightly different. You could be right though. About the end credits suite, I agree that it's kind of annoying that we get the exact same renditions of certain pieces heard earlier in the soundtracks when there are numerous beautiful pieces from the score not on the CD. That has always bothered me.

Ted

[Henry B 50]

The end credits are like eating dessert first. It's nice, but then the rest of your dinner tastes like crap. I'm disappointed that Williams wasn't able to fully realize this ending suite, because it starts off spectacularly. I'd even postulate that it stays strong all the way through "Buckbeak's Flight" - which is not, in fact, the same recording as the film's earlier cue, and has an alternate ending in the film (but not on album). The first half of "A Window to the Past" appears to have actually been written for the credits, because it segues very well from the original credits music, and into "Buckbeak's Flight." It certainly wasn't dropped from the film, because there's simply no place for it. So, I consider this piece part of the original credits music. However, once we hear all the music from the beginning of the film reprised, it gets real pointless. I edited my copy of the track so that it skips from the end of "Buckbeak's Flight" to the final celesta notes of Hedwig's theme - and Pettigrew's theme, ripped easily from the DVD. Speaking of DVD rips, reinserting the cut portion of credits music is highly recommended.

[Jeshopk 8]

Williams indicates "synth celeste" in all his sketches for Harry Potter. But the concert suites just say "celeste"

I think he does it so that it can be isolated and brought out in the recording. He also can control the amount of "hammer" noise with a synth celeste. Notice in Stepmom, the synth celeste is really soft, almost like the hammers are covered in cloth. Also the synth celeste sustains for longer. I guess those are the advantages.

But I prefer real celeste. I would never want E.T. to use synth celeste, in the scene where E.T. is in the freezer.

[Composer_Fan 2]

Didn't Williams use a harpsichord in POA? Is that what you hear at the very end?

[Jeshopk 8]

I think in the film version, they tag on the little Harpsichord motif for the rat man. But not on the album if I recall correctly.

[Bart 0]

I've read somewhere on these boards that Williams actually composed a new 'Harry Wondrous World' with inclusion of the new theme's, but that the producers decided to go with a cut and paste job.

[nightscape94 965]

I'm disappointed that Williams wasn't able to fully realize this ending suite, because it starts off spectacularly.

The first two minutes of Mischief Managed was the start of what could have been one of the best end credit suites of his entire career. Then, unfortunately, it results in a cut and paste job (ultimately).

Tim

[tpigeon 3]

Agreed.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

Couldn't agree more. Whoever scrapped the PoA suite should be fired, and I sincerely hope JW wasn't directly responsible for Mischief Managed - an almost total waste of album space.

[Incanus 5,714]

I agree. It is like putting same tracks on the album twice, apart from those little over 2 minutes at the beginning of Mischief Managed. I was disappointed. This cut and paste style is very unfortunate. That End Credit suite could have been so much better.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

I think in the film version, they tag on the little Harpsichord motif for the rat man. But not on the album if I recall correctly.

I thought the rat-man was always represented by dulcimer.

[pi 0]

The last note on the soundtrack is a really weird sounding celeste, you can tell a real celeste was used because randy kerber played it on the soundtrack insert.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

But did he play that particular note?

[nightscape94 965]

The last note sounds different the the other notes that precede it. After the statement of "Aunt Marge's Waltz", it sounds like a normal celeste playing Hedwig's theme, but the delayed last note at the end sounds like a synth, almost like a doorbell or something. It could be a xylophone.

Tim

[pi 0]

The last note sounds different the the other notes that precede it.  After the statement of "Aunt Marge's Waltz", it sounds like a normal celeste playing Hedwig's theme, but the delayed last note at the end sounds like a synth, almost like a doorbell or something.  It could be a xylophone.

Tim

exactly i think it is a synth, it sounds terrible.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I know that "Mischeif Managed" is a bit of a missed opportunity, but it's hardly the worst decision anyone's ever amde on a Williams album. I still enjoy listening to it, because frankly I don't have time to listen to whole soundtracks nowadays, even though albums like PoA almost always make me want to. The first half is absolutely breathtaking, and the second half is a lot of fun.

Pete - who watched PoA again last night after finishing H-BP again resulting in the peak of Potter excitement. I really, really, really, really, really want another Williams HP score.

[Datameister 2,042]

I never noticed before how awful that sounds. I'll say this much...it's no xylophone, nightscape. If it were an acoustic (western) instrument, it would probably be a glockenspiel played in its lower register. But it's not. It sounds like a synth, and I don't like it.

I thought "Mischief Managed" (not the first couple minutes) was indeed a big disappointment. But magical me is right about it not being the worst soundtrack decision ever made...because the worst soundtrack decision ever made has got to be the inclusion of the first 1:30 of "Palpatine's Teachings" on the ROTS OST, rather than a more interesting cue like "News of the Attack," "The Boys Continue," or "Going to Utapau." (That was only half-sarcastic...)

[ins 42]

The worst soundtrack decision is and always will be: Hiring Dolye for Potter

[Indiana_Fett 0]

I wanted Pettigrew's theme at the end of the suite for the OST.

[nightscape94 965]

Is Pettigrew's theme always played by the harpsichord? Every time I'm aware of it in the score, it's isolated, with no real orchestral accompaniment, and played at the same tempo by the same instrument. Can anyone pin point any moment where its played in variation?

Tim

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

An entire thread devoted to a single note.

[nightscape94 965]

One down, 11 more to go.

Tim

[Ollie 1,059]

An entire thread devoted to a single note.  

My goodness the nerve of them posting a thread like this.

[Marcus 390]

Just a quick comment on celesta and "synth celesta": The reason one would use a synth with a celesta registration, is agility. Most normal celestas wouldn't be able to produce the fast passages in "Hedwig's Theme", "Fawkes the Phoenix" and elsewhere, because of their key action. Also, most celestas built after the second world war are pretty bad (not a lot of good metal left), and have rather dull timbres.

I remember, during Williams' rehearsals with the N.Y. Phil in February 2004, they had to get another celesta for the orchestral pianist, because her instrument wouldn't "project" the notes she played.

Marcus

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

hmm...yea..now that u've mentioned it pi, i notice it, though those last notes are so soft i have to turn the volume WAAAAYY up to notice the huge difference.

[Indiana_Fett 0]

Is Pettigrew's theme always played by the harpsichord?  Every time I'm aware of it in the score, it's isolated, with no real orchestral accompaniment, and played at the same tempo by the same instrument.  Can anyone pin point any moment where its played in variation?

Tim

There is a 7 note variation to his theme which plays in the Gryffindor hall and in the Shrieking Shack. It uses strings, I think. It could just be a second part to his theme, though.

[Josh500 1,615]

to me that doesnt sound like a real celeste, i think that was a giga studio insert. Listen to the tambre of the tone. If so it is a very wierd ending for a JW piece. (Last track last note). any one else think so??

Good question.

Weird? No. Unusual and cute? Maybe.

When JW was working on this, he probably knew (almost) for certain that this will be his last Potter score. To me, it sounded as if he was musically "dropping a wink" at the audience/his fans. Like he was saying, "There. That's it for me. I hope you enjoyed my contribution to the Harry Potter universe." You notice that the VERY last few seconds of PoA (the beginning of Hedwig's Theme) are almost exactly the same as the VERY first few seconds of PS. And then... the blink! It has come full circle: "There, that's it!"

Also, one reason I think so is because the last note sounds so different, has such a different timber, like you said, that it takes the listener slightly out of it. It's the musical equivalent of "breaking the fourth wall," almost.

[MattyO 62]

I'm pretty miffed to hear a real End Credits piece was composed for POA, but mostly dropped in the final film (and on album). I think there's a distinct lack of good end credits music for the Potter scores; most of the films end with straight concert suites or edited score tracks. I hope Desplat gets to compose a real, through-composed End Credits piece - something Mischief Managed could and should have been.

[Andy 4,127]

Was it composed and actually recorded and then dropped from the film? Or was it never recorded to begin with?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

and what is the credible news source for this?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Why was this resurrected?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well, Easter was only last week!

[ChuckM 1]

You know, I do find it funny how everyone complains if an old thread is resurrected, but at the same time, should anyone dare to start a topic that resembles an old thread, a link is immediately posted to the old with the warning that we don't need a new thread about it.

It's like we're never allowed to discuss the same thing twice. Ever think that maybe people who missed the discussion the first time around want to join in?

[Ollie 1,059]

I only do that if the thread is similar to something that has been posted within the past year. Other than that I personally don't see a problem resurrecting an old thread that had lengthy conversation.

[ChuckM 1]

I was not referring to you or to any other one person in particular, but no matter how old or new the thread, someone always seems to jump in and complain.

[Ollie 1,059]

I know Chuck, I was just explaining my feelings on old threads.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The past is past, the future is now!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No..

Koray, the future is later, actually.

That's why it's called the future!

[Wojo 2,453]

And for many, the present is all we have. It's a gift. That's why it's called the present.

[Bowie 45]

to me that doesnt sound like a real celeste, i think that was a giga studio insert. Listen to the tambre of the tone. If so it is a very wierd ending for a JW piece. (Last track last note). any one else think so??

Good question.

Weird? No. Unusual and cute? Maybe.

When JW was working on this, he probably knew (almost) for certain that this will be his last Potter score. To me, it sounded as if he was musically "dropping a wink" at the audience/his fans. Like he was saying, "There. That's it for me. I hope you enjoyed my contribution to the Harry Potter universe." You notice that the VERY last few seconds of PoA (the beginning of Hedwig's Theme) are almost exactly the same as the VERY first few seconds of PS. And then... the blink! It has come full circle: "There, that's it!"

Also, one reason I think so is because the last note sounds so different, has such a different timber, like you said, that it takes the listener slightly out of it. It's the musical equivalent of "breaking the fourth wall," almost.

Well that could explain why it sounds so out-of-place: because it was added much later, just before the album's release, when Williams (and Spielberg) decided he was unable to score GOF. So he wanted to add a little personal touch to the end of the album.

[Josh500 1,615]

Well that could explain why it sounds so out-of-place: because it was added much later, just before the album's release, when Williams (and Spielberg) decided he was unable to score GOF. So he wanted to add a little personal touch to the end of the album.

Well, yes, but I think it was intentional rather than because it was added later (in this day and age, how difficult can it be to accurately reproduce a single note on the celeste, after all?).

As to what I said earlier in regards to "the musical equivalent of breaking the fourth wall": it's kind of like the actor who is playing a scene straight to the end, and then, suddenly, turning to the camera, looking right at the viewers, and dropping a wink. It strikes me that, maybe, JW was doing something like that here!

[indy4 155]

<!--QuoteBegin-Cerrabore+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cerrabore)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm disappointed that Williams wasn't able to fully realize this ending suite, because it starts off <i>spectacularly</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The first two minutes of <i>Mischief Managed</i> was the start of what could have been one of the best end credit suites of his entire career. Then, unfortunately, it results in a cut and paste job (ultimately).

Tim

Very true.

[oierem 152]

Again, remember that what Williams composed for the end credits was the 6-minute suite comprising Double trouble (intrumental), the Past theme (new variations!) and Buckbeack's theme, as a reprise (but a new recording). All this was recorded as one big piece of music. Then, someone decided to cut and paste another 6 minutes of tracked music. But Williams DIDN'T compose just 2 minutes of end credits.

A Window to the Past is not a concert suite, but a cut and paste job, which includes the end credits portion of the theme.

As for the last statement of Hedwig's theme (and the very last note of the track), I always wondered if that's something Williams recorded to end the credits or was taken from somewhere else.

[Datameister 2,042]

Again, remember that what Williams composed for the end credits was the 6-minute suite comprising Double trouble (intrumental), the Past theme (new variations!) and Buckbeack's theme, as a reprise (but a new recording). All this was recorded as one big piece of music. Then, someone decided to cut and paste another 6 minutes of tracked music. But Williams DIDN'T compose just 2 minutes of end credits.

Actually, the Buckbeak music is just music from the film. It uses the exact same recording. In the film version of the credits, they tacked on the ending of the unreleased reprise that plays while they rescue Sirius. As far as I can tell, the end credits recording ends as the drums start for "Buckbeak's Flight."

As for the last statement of Hedwig's theme (and the very last note of the track), I always wondered if that's something Williams recorded to end the credits or was taken from somewhere else.

The last statement of Hedwig's theme may be from the start of "Mischief Managed!". The OST track cuts out that opening statement, and it sounds very similar.

[oierem 152]

Again, remember that what Williams composed for the end credits was the 6-minute suite comprising Double trouble (intrumental), the Past theme (new variations!) and Buckbeack's theme, as a reprise (but a new recording). All this was recorded as one big piece of music. Then, someone decided to cut and paste another 6 minutes of tracked music. But Williams DIDN'T compose just 2 minutes of end credits.

Actually, the Buckbeak music is just music from the film. It uses the exact same recording. In the film version of the credits, they tacked on the ending of the unreleased reprise that plays while they rescue Sirius. As far as I can tell, the end credits recording ends as the drums start for "Buckbeak's Flight."

I'm not talking about the alternate ending, which is tracked from the unreleased cue. I'm talking about at least one clear difference in orchestration: once the drums end, you can hear the harps in the end credits, but not in the actual "Buckbeak's Flight" cue. So, at least, it is a differente take with a slight difference.

Furthermore, it is obvious that the crescendo at the end of the Past theme (with Hedwig's theme quoted in) is meant to lead to Buckbeak's flight, so Williams did write a 4-minute suite ending with a transition to a reprise of Buckbeak's flight (probably, he felt that he couldn't write a new version of it, since it's not actually a theme, and just tacked the actual cue, as he usually does with the Raiders march at the end of the end credits suites of Indy, for example.)

It is just annoying to me that people keep talking about the lack of a proper end credits suite, when Williams actually wrote a 6 minute cue with the two main new themes of the movie (featuring new variations, they're not even based on a previous cue) and ending with one of the most iconic moments of the film (musically), and including quotes to Hedwig's theme. It's not his fault that the credits ended up being 12 minutes long!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

How does one decipher the difference between a recording of a real celesta and a recording of a real celesta?

In sophisticated sampling packages each note is a recording of the actual instrument. There's no real way to distinguish by listening.

[Datameister 2,042]

Right, but if it doesn't sound like a real celeste or if the score is marked SYNTH I "CELESTE", you can be pretty sure.

You're right that there's a tiny bit of harp audible right after the percussion in the end credits, oierem, but the recording is the same. You can line up the two tracks and the waveforms match perfectly. Even with a really, REALLY good orchestra, you're just not going to get the exact same waveforms for two takes of an entire cue. The passage right after the drums is a little longer in the end credits, which means it was either cut down in "Buckbeak's Flight" or looped (plus a harp overlay) in the end credits. No idea which. But my point still stands - it's the same exact recording. Perhaps Williams did intend for it to be used there, a la "Duel of the Fates" being an instance of planned tracking in ROTS. But I see no evidence that Williams wrote a full six minutes of new material for the end credits. It's more like four. Which is still quite good! I'm just saying it's not six, unless you've got some sheet music you're not telling me about.

Your comment about it not being Williams' fault doesn't really hold water, either - he produced the OST and decided he liked an edited end credits suite similar to the one in the film. But with less unreleased music, of course.

[King Mark 3,631]

Williams (or one of his editors) cut out the first 13 seconds of the End Credits for the album .That's about on par with cutting out the majestic fanfares at the end of Anakin's Dark Deeds

I was fuming mad when I first heard the album because I knew that part was cut

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Typically stupid JW CD editing.