Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Wow, what a charming disaster this is!! Holy crap some of these tracks sound absolutely horrible, like they were recorded in my basement, but I love em!! These never before heard (by me) tracks are incredible, can't believe I've never owned this! $6 on Amazon, IF YOU DON'T OWN THIS, BUY IT NOW!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 The sound could be better on this.Glad you are enjoying it. It is a great score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Eric Tomlinson should rot in hell for what he did to this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I demand a 5.1 DVD-A (or SACD for those interested) version of the original trilogy!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I dont know. I actually like the sound of Star Wars and ESB (less so with ROTJ). :? Anyway congrats on your purchase. No JWfan should ever be without it.Burga - who still doesnt own the Rhino Superman 2CD set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 Yeah I dig the rotten sound kinda. But what kills me is WHERE did the low end go on some of the tracks?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Eric Tomlinson should rot in hell for what he did to this!Too far, Stef . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Eric Tomlinson should rot in hell for what he did to this!And what exactly did he do to deserve this? I don't mind the recording... and the 1993 box set mix is quite good. But the 1997 mix is brutal and I don't blame Tomlinson one bit for that.-Erik- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,172 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Burga - who still doesnt own the Rhino Superman 2CD setCompared to that, the ESB SE sounds great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Eric Tomlinson should rot in hell for what he did to this!And what exactly did he do to deserve this? I don't mind the recording... and the 1993 box set mix is quite good. But the 1997 mix is brutal and I don't blame Tomlinson one bit for that.-Erik-There really is not a big doifference between the OST, the Anthology and the SE's in terms of sound quality.They all sound rather poor, so I put the blame were I think it lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Eric Tomlinson should rot in hell for what he did to this!And what exactly did he do to deserve this? I don't mind the recording... and the 1993 box set mix is quite good. But the 1997 mix is brutal and I don't blame Tomlinson one bit for that.-Erik-There really is not a big difference between the OST, the Anthology and the SE's in terms of sound quality.They all sound rather poor, so I put the blame were I think it lies.Ooooh there definitely is a difference in the sound quality. Who ever was in charge of the SE's increased the highs so much that the tape hiss is audible throughout the entire program. Plus, the SE’s have been compressed to shit! The dynamics of the recording is gone. Finally, you have the much discussed reverse channel problem.The Fox Box mix is clear, dynamic, and warmer. Compare The Asteroid Field Fox version to the SE. The SE version is tinny, choppy and full of hiss. It also sound like the audio is out of phase. It's terrible. That's why I listen to the Fox Box almost exclusively.-Erik- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Well OK you have a point, there is a slight difference between the 3 releases.But first listen to the TESB re-recording by Gerhardt and the National Philharmonic, then listen to any version of the actual TESB score.Tomlinson screwed up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Well OK you have a point, there is a slight difference between the 3 releases.But first listen to the TESB re-recording by Gerhardt and the National Philharmonic, then listen to any version of the actual TESB score.Tomlinson screwed up!I don't think he screwed up anything. BTW, you never explained why Tomlinson screwed up? What erks you? And yes, the Gerhardt release sounds great... even though the brass had an off day!-Erik- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacius 7 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Wow, what a charming disaster this is!! Holy crap some of these tracks sound absolutely horrible, like they were recorded in my basement, but I love em!! These never before heard (by me) tracks are incredible, can't believe I've never owned this! $6 on Amazon, IF YOU DON'T OWN THIS, BUY IT NOW!!!!!Good move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Finally, you have the much discussed reverse channel problem.That problem is on the Anthology not the SE.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Finally, you have the much discussed reverse channel problem.That problem is on the Anthology not the SE.NeilActually, you are correct... sort of. Yes, there are a few tracks on the anthology that have reversed channels mainly the extra cues on disc 4... but I'd say 90% of the score is mixed properly. But on the SE... listen to The Battle of Hoth... instruments float from one channel to the other.Terrible.-Erik- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 But on the SE... listen to The Battle of Hoth... instruments float from one channel to the other. This track on the SE has stuff going on there that I never noticed before. Whoever remixed it brought out a lot of instruments that were hidden before. I don't know what was wrong with the original. Maybe the tapes were dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Compare The Asteroid Field Fox version to the SE. The SE version is tinny, choppy and full of hiss. It also sound like the audio is out of phase. It's terrible. That's why I listen to the Fox Box almost exclusively.-Erik-For good sound quality I now listen to The Asteroid Field on the DVD that came with ROTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,172 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 But first listen to the TESB re-recording by Gerhardt and the National Philharmonic, then listen to any version of the actual TESB score.The only Gerhardt disc I've ever heard with quite poor sound. I still think they placed all the microphones behind the orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Can you imagine how priviliged those people are who got to sit in the recording sessions and hear this magnificent score in its full glory?Those amazing performance...in perfect clarity?DAMMIT someone go back in time with digital technology... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,172 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 No need to take digital technology, necessarily. Just go back in time and get the equipment also used for CE3K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artyjeffrey 20 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 But first listen to the TESB re-recording by Gerhardt and the National Philharmonic, then listen to any version of the actual TESB score.The only Gerhardt disc I've ever heard with quite poor sound. I still think they placed all the microphones behind the orchestra.And the brass just didn't seem up to snuff, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,172 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Agreed. But nobody else here will believe us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Malone 49 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Eric Tomlinson should rot in hell for what he did to this!Stefancos, you have repeatedly made negative comments about the ESB soundtrack recording without any substance or logic. Eric Tomlinson captured nuance, detail and intonation like no other engineer. He was admired for his ability to quickly obtain a balance and skilfully deliver a live mix during sessions. Musicians enjoyed his easy-going manner and work ethic that ensured that they were satisfied with the sound offered to them.To whine that Mr Tomlinson should "rot in hell" for the sound on the 1997 SE CDs says more about you than anything else. It suggests that you have no appreciation or knowledge of music recording and would prefer to remain ignorant of the real reason why that edition of the ESB score can be considered sonically inferior. The primary reason is that the 24-track backup tapes were remixed specifically for the SE CDs, extensively clouding spatial placement and cohesion. Secondly, these new mixes were then compressed and limited during mastering, compromising dynamic range. Eric Tomlinson was not involved with any part of this process and is very disappointed with the outcome. I suggest that should you want to point fingers, a quick perusal of the "multi-track transfers" and "mastering" credits of your SE CD set should do you well.In my mind, a proper issue of the ESB score would utilise the 6-channel film mixes and present them on SACD or DVD-A in a transfer overseen by Eric Tomlinson. Should these tapes not be available then a remix from the 24-track backup tapes would be suitable, again with the involvement of Mr. Tomlinson. Dynamics processing should be avoided completely. Steve Hoffman would be the mastering engineer of choice. Fundamentally, the 2-track material -- utilised for the STORY OF THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK for example -- would sound fabulous too if mastered by Mr. Hoffman.I hope the above clarifies the situation with regard to the 1997 SE version of ESB. And should you wish to hear some Eric Tomlinson recordings presented properly on CD I vote for RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, NIGHT CROSSING and BRAINSTORM as starters.RegardsChris Malonehttp://www.users.on.net/~jennychris/starwars.htmRecording the Star Wars Saga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I believe the Grand Master just got one-uped. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Ouch. Btw, how come all these audio deficiencies never get mentioned in reviews of the albums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Eric Tomlinson should rot in hell for what he did to this!Stefancos, you have repeatedly made negative comments about the ESB soundtrack recording without any substance or logic. Eric Tomlinson captured nuance, detail and intonation like no other engineer. He was admired for his ability to quickly obtain a balance and skilfully deliver a live mix during sessions. Musicians enjoyed his easy-going manner and work ethic that ensured that they were satisfied with the sound offered to them.To whine that Mr Tomlinson should "rot in hell" for the sound on the 1997 SE CDs says more about you than anything else. It suggests that you have no appreciation or knowledge of music recording and would prefer to remain ignorant of the real reason why that edition of the ESB score can be considered sonically inferior. The primary reason is that the 24-track backup tapes were remixed specifically for the SE CDs, extensively clouding spatial placement and cohesion. Secondly, these new mixes were then compressed and limited during mastering, compromising dynamic range. Eric Tomlinson was not involved with any part of this process and is very disappointed with the outcome. I suggest that should you want to point fingers, a quick perusal of the "multi-track transfers" and "mastering" credits of your SE CD set should do you well.In my mind, a proper issue of the ESB score would utilise the 6-channel film mixes and present them on SACD or DVD-A in a transfer overseen by Eric Tomlinson. Should these tapes not be available then a remix from the 24-track backup tapes would be suitable, again with the involvement of Mr. Tomlinson. Dynamics processing should be avoided completely. Steve Hoffman would be the mastering engineer of choice. Fundamentally, the 2-track material -- utilised for the STORY OF THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK for example -- would sound fabulous too if mastered by Mr. Hoffman.I hope the above clarifies the situation with regard to the 1997 SE version of ESB. And should you wish to hear some Eric Tomlinson recordings presented properly on CD I vote for RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, NIGHT CROSSING and BRAINSTORM as starters.RegardsChris Malonehttp://www.users.on.net/~jennychris/starwars.htmRecording the Star Wars SagaI don't now who you are, but you clearly do not have a clue what you are talking about, nor have you actually read my posts.Tomlinson recorded TESB, TESB sounds rather damp and muddled on every release I have heard, thus, Tomlinson is to blame!Simple logic.Now good bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Burga - who still doesnt own the Rhino Superman 2CD setCompared to that, the ESB SE sounds great.Does it really? I only have 224kbps mp3s of Superman and I thought it sounded fine (the only track that really bothers me a bit is the alternate which kicks off disc 2, which is a pity, since I love the arrangement). Would a rip from the DVD iso score sound better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I don't now who you are, but you clearly do not have a clue what you are talking about, nor have you actually read my posts.Let's settle down a bit here, okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I need to re-buy the 97' Special Edition scores again sometime. I mean I know I have the 2004 versions but I would like to have the 97' versions again for completest (is that the word I want?) sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 completeness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 What's wrong with the 2004 versions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 i think its missing the matessino analysis, and has horrible lenticular covers to boot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 But at least it has exclusive screensavers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,172 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I only have 224kbps mp3s of Superman and I thought it sounded fine (the only track that really bothers me a bit is the alternate which kicks off disc 2, which is a pity, since I love the arrangement). Would a rip from the DVD iso score sound better?The DVD iso score was done with the original masters (which were still missing when the Rhino CD was created), and according to online reports, it does sound significantly better. The Rhino disc is like the ESB SE, only worse: Hissy, harsh, flat. Rudy (Jerry Goldsmith) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 The isolated score on Superman is a mass of reverb. It's as vague sounding as can be. And it's edited to shreds. I'll take the Rhino over it.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymenard 54 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 People people...Let's at least try to differenciate the _quality_ of the recording, with what is done after in it's mastering. By this on CD or any medium (DVD Iso scores). Now the editing is indeed to shred, and it was mastered with lots of reverbs. It's still obvious that the _quality_ of the recording behind it, is superior to the one found with the Rhino one.Same for the SE's, they are at start faulty because of the quality of the recording. I doubt they will ever be cleaned up correctly.And yes, the SE's mixes are very unnatural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Yeah I dig the rotten sound kinda. But what kills me is WHERE did the low end go on some of the tracks?!!For that you have to buy the regular release.Alex Cremers - who wants to hear the allegedly superior sounding double LP of TESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 yest you posted a photo of the bastardized CD version, with half the music and completely out of order... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 yest you posted a photo of the bastardized CD version, with half the music and completely out of order...Is there another regular one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 mmm I havent seen that in stores ever. I suppose that some sotres may have it but i suppose the thing is out of print?arent the regular release the Special edtions 1997 and 2004 versions, now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Is there another regular one?There was the longer 2 LP release, which was unfortunatly never released on CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Also if you want good sound to Empire Strikes Back, you could buy the Anthology set. All though the channels for some tracks are reversed but that's okay I guess...As far as the 1997 Special Edition sets being the Sony 2004 sets, yes they're the same ones. They're just packaged in jeweled cases with Sony's name stamped on it and that annoying FBI logo crap on the covers and discs to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 just in the states Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Oh really, got pictures to prove it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Is there another regular one?There was the longer 2 LP release, which was unfortunatly never released on CD.That's why I said I want to hear the allegedly superior sounding double LP of TESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 You never owned it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Steef,You have a way to transfer the 2 LP's to the computer for Empire Strikes Back? That is if you own it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 arent the regular release the Special edtions 1997 and 2004 versions, now?The Anthology and the SEs will NEVER be regular.You never owned it?No, at the time I thought Star Wars was all I needed (an apprehension that later came true) and now it seems an album difficult to get. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I never had an LP...do they scratch over time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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