November 28 - Superman DVD Set - Official!

[Lurker 5]

You can view some clips from "The Richard Donner Version" on-line here. "Prequel style" music editing. And in these clips at least, the music channels are reversed!

Neil

[pro-arte 22]

Now with this link it is clear that the score is a montage between Williams and Thorne... Very disappointing , sound like temp tracks ... A shame they didn't ask John Williams to return on this film...

[Ollie 1,059]

Probably couldn't afford it.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Or he just wasn't interested.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Or maybe they forgot.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

He probably felt disinclined to add music to a score that he'd had nothing to do with originally. He probably cringed at the rather sloppy re-use of whole chunks of his original Superman-The Movie score when he first saw Superman II. I'm guessing he has no desire whatsoever to contribute anything other than permission to use his themes.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I doubt they even asked him.

[MrScratch 294]

I'd rather see a Debney or McNeely rescore it with Williams original themes, emulating JWs sound from the early 80s. Lost forever is the John Williams Superman II score he would have composed back in 1980. If Williams actually did score it now, I'd be afraid of cues sounding like "Chase Through Coruscant" and "General Greivous". I'm sure the entire budget for this project is going into effects and restoration of the footage though and nothing being spent on new music.

[John Crichton 4]

I doubt they even asked him.

I doubt they even had a flicker of a thought about considering the possibility of asking him.

[deleted account 108]

I'm confused at people's disappointment in the score for Donner's Superman II being tracked from JW (and KT) music - did anyone actually think Warner Bros would hire a composer (especially an expensive one like JW) and get a live orchestra to record a score for a 20 year old movie that's being released straight to DVD?

In my humble opinion, tracking in as much JW as possible from the S:TM score is preferable to hearing Joel "Mr Snippets" McNeely plagarize his way through a second-rate score (which is what you would get from a second-rate John Williams wanna-be).

I for one am more excited to see Donner's Superman II than I was to see Superman Returns - and that's saying something since I've worked with all the filmmakers involved in SR. Give me Donner's blocking, camera movement, sense of drama, and sense of humor ANY DAY over Lester's British sensibilities (which are superb in the Beatles movies but seem to mock Superman in II and III). The 2 Daily Planet clips give me great excitement to see the whole thing in November.

Obviously, even before this DVD was announced, online discussions such as the one at Superman Cinema.uk conceded that a Donner cut would not be possible without either (a) shooting new footage, or (B) using a minimum of footage from the Lester shoot, since key sequences, such as Niagara Falls scenes and the battle over Metropolis, were cut from Donner's schedule in order to get S:TM out the door and in theaters ASAP.

I don't think one can view this version as a definitive, fully-finished version of Donner's Superman II. This is, IMHO, more a loving restoration of a film in which as much as 25% of the needed footage is missing.

And it is of some historic value since it contains an entire performance by one of America's greatest actors that has gone unseen since it's capture on film (I refer of course to Marlon Brando - cue James Lipton).

Anyhow, those are my rambling thoughts for the day. Resume squabbling.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

But they are pulling a Lucas on us and releasing this set after I already own the original set. As my dad would say, "Bunch of friggers!"

I may wind up only getting the alternate version of 2, but I'll reconsider. Though the set is attractive, it's a little pricey.

Meanwhile, i'll cehck in on ST's site for the 1st time in a while... I wonder if Sio Bibble is going to own the universe!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Pulling a Lucas would just be repackaging it

This actually has some effort put into it.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Pulling a Lucas would just be repackaging it

This actually has some effort put into it.

The 2004 DVDs as oposed to the 1997 SEs were not just repackagins...

I wonder if Sio Bibble is going to own the universe!

Dont you mean Chancellor Valorum?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'd rather see a Debney or McNeely rescore it with Williams original themes, emulating JWs sound from the early 80s.  Lost forever is the John Williams Superman II score he would have composed back in 1980.  If Williams actually did score it now, I'd be afraid of cues sounding like "Chase Through Coruscant" and "General Greivous".  I'm sure the entire budget for this project is going into effects and restoration of the footage though and nothing being spent on new music.

It's like when Richard Donner looked at the footage and said "I wouldn't shoot like that in a million years, it was a different time, a different interpretation" or something to that degree. Williams would probably think "I'd never score like that in a million years now!"

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Pulling a Lucas would just be repackaging it

This actually has some effort put into it.

The 2004 DVDs as oposed to the 1997 SEs were not just repackagins...

The 2005 DVDs were. And it looks like the 2006 DVD will be too.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I know those IESB may be shortened versions of the real deal, but is that a continuity error in the Metropolis fight?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I cannot overstate how much I hate Windows Media Player. Those clips only work for so long before they decide not to play again.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

youtube.com to your rescue then. here are the 3 same clips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_PQT1rtoHc...20superman%20ii

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y_aQnIlxd0...20superman%20ii

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZOkZoeYRY...20superman%20ii

[Ollie 1,059]

I'm confused at people's disappointment in the score for Donner's Superman II being tracked from JW (and KT) music - did anyone actually think Warner Bros would hire a composer (especially an expensive one like JW) and get a live orchestra to record a score for a 20 year old movie that's being released straight to DVD?  

In my humble opinion, tracking in as much JW as possible from the S:TM score is preferable to hearing Joel "Mr Snippets" McNeely plagarize his way through a second-rate score (which is what you would get from a second-rate John Williams wanna-be).  

I for one am more excited to see Donner's Superman II than I was to see Superman Returns - and that's saying something since I've worked with all the filmmakers involved in SR.  Give me Donner's blocking, camera movement, sense of drama, and sense of humor ANY DAY over Lester's British sensibilities (which are superb in the Beatles movies but seem to mock Superman in II and III).  The 2 Daily Planet clips give me great excitement to see the whole thing in November.  

Obviously, even before this DVD was announced, online discussions such as the one at Superman Cinema.uk conceded that a Donner cut would not be possible without either (a) shooting new footage, or (B) using a minimum of footage from the Lester shoot, since key sequences, such as Niagara Falls scenes and the battle over Metropolis, were cut from Donner's schedule in order to get S:TM out the door and in theaters ASAP.

I don't think one can view this version as a definitive, fully-finished version of Donner's Superman II.  This is, IMHO, more a loving restoration of a film in which as much as 25% of the needed footage is missing.

And it is of some historic value since it contains an entire performance by one of America's greatest actors that has gone unseen since it's capture on film (I refer of course to Marlon Brando - cue James Lipton).

Anyhow, those are my rambling thoughts for the day.  Resume squabbling.

Well said.

[MrScratch 294]

I'm confused at people's disappointment in the score for Donner's Superman II being tracked from JW (and KT) music - did anyone actually think Warner Bros would hire a composer (especially an expensive one like JW) and get a live orchestra to record a score for a 20 year old movie that's being released straight to DVD?  

In my humble opinion, tracking in as much JW as possible from the S:TM score is preferable to hearing Joel "Mr Snippets" McNeely plagarize his way through a second-rate score (which is what you would get from a second-rate John Williams wanna-be).

Blasphemy! An original score is always preferable to prequel style music editing. I never once believed Warners actually would spring for new music, I said that in my first post. I'm saying of all possible options...

Williams himself coming back and rescoring it

New composer brought it

Tracking existing music cues

My ideal choice (if money and budget were no issue) would be new composer, someone like Debney or McNeely. Competent but not great composers who can imitate John Williams but still give the film it's own score.

I for one am more excited to see Donner's Superman II than I was to see Superman Returns - and that's saying something since I've worked with all the filmmakers involved in SR.  Give me Donner's blocking, camera movement, sense of drama, and sense of humor ANY DAY over Lester's British sensibilities (which are superb in the Beatles movies but seem to mock Superman in II and III).  The 2 Daily Planet clips give me great excitement to see the whole thing in November.

Obviously, even before this DVD was announced, online discussions such as the one at Superman Cinema.uk conceded that a Donner cut would not be possible without either (a) shooting new footage, or (B) using a minimum of footage from the Lester shoot, since key sequences, such as Niagara Falls scenes and the battle over Metropolis, were cut from Donner's schedule in order to get S:TM out the door and in theaters ASAP.

I don't think one can view this version as a definitive, fully-finished version of Donner's Superman II.  This is, IMHO, more a loving restoration of a film in which as much as 25% of the needed footage is missing.

And it is of some historic value since it contains an entire performance by one of America's greatest actors that has gone unseen since it's capture on film (I refer of course to Marlon Brando - cue James Lipton).

I couldn't agree more. Come on, November 28th!

Jeff - who is also a Beatles fan

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Pulling a Lucas would just be repackaging it

This actually has some effort put into it.

I already have those movies (I have the original set), and 3 and 4 are mostly atrocious other than a scene or two in each. I'll likely just get the theatrical 1 and Donner 2. I never hated Lester's original, but I am FAR more anxious to see Donner's 2 than any new Superman (which I haven't seen yet even though friends tell me I need to).

And the Star Wars ones weren't repackaged, they were re-done AND relased for the 1st time on DVD. And, again, I liked them, wanted them, and other than a few problems, I prefer them OVER theatrical versions in terms of sound and picture quality. My only problem with Lucasfilm's decision now is that you have to re-buy the 2004 editions again to get the originals? That's what I don't like. I mean, it's slightly humorous to me that Lucas is going to stick it to people who DESPISE the newer versions with such better hatred, but why didn't he just take my advice and release them together in 2004 instead of 2006? Bummer.

I agree with what EJ posted as well. I'd rather hear skillfully edited 1 and 2 music over new new music by a non-JW composer. The only exception would be if Williams came in and rescored parts, which would likely be difficult considering JW's likely schedule and fees.

I wonder if Sio Bibble is going to own the universe!

Dont you mean Chancellor Valorum?

Nope. I mean Sio Bibble on his SW Figure website. Funny stuff! Bibble should have been seen more! He was only seen in a moment in III during Padme's funeral, gardangit! He's just... so... unintentionally funny! Valrorium too now that you said it. The only thing that Palpatine ever did that I hated was job to Windu and get rid of Zod, er, Valorium. One can only imagine... Palpatine and Zod in cahoots! Joy!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

And the Star Wars ones weren't repackaged, they were re-done AND relased for the 1st time on DVD.

In 2004, yes. In 2005, they were just repackaging, and the 2006 will only have an extra dvd for each film added, with a shoddy transfer from 13 years ago.

I prefer them OVER theatrical versions in terms of sound and picture quality.

I'll give you this much: they're the sharpest and cleanest these films have ever looked, but the color timing is regularly off, especially in Star Wars. And have you actually heard the remix on Star Wars?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Chris is blind to the flaws,

[JMan 0]

dont know why this is such a big deal. The first one was awesome, but the rest sucked. Its just like, Jurassic Park, and Jaws.

[Ollie 1,059]

Because we might have been treated to a film as good as the first if Donner had been allowed to finish his film. Imagine a Superman II score by Williams during the same period he would score TESB.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

ESB may have suffered...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Not necessarily. Under Donner's direction, there wouldn't have been much more to shoot, and post production including editing, remaining special effects and music would have taken a year, putting the film out roughly towards the end of 1979.

[Lurker 5]

ESB may have suffered...

Williams was done recording the score to ESB in January 1980. Superman II didn't open until December 1980.

Neil

[Ollie 1,059]

The score would have come in the period where Williams was at his peak.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

ESB may have suffered...

Williams was done recording the score to ESB in January 1980. Superman II didn't open until December 1980.

Neil

Well Superman II would have suffered then (but not more as the actual thing though...)

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Superman II didn't open until December 1980.

Where exactly? I think I read that the film opened in Europe a whole year earlier than in the U.S.

[Lurker 5]

Superman II didn't open until December 1980.

Where exactly? I think I read that the film opened in Europe a whole year earlier than in the U.S.

Superman II release dates.

Neil

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

whoa..why did it open in the States more than 6months later?

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

The score would have come in the period where Williams was at his peak.

Wow...I've never really thought about that. It could have been even better than the first score.

[John Crichton 4]

Superman II is the Williams masterpiece that was never written. Even if he had been able to work with "that man" and did the Lester version it wouldv'e been a great score.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

One of the great what if's of film music history.

[Ollie 1,059]

Yes.

[Greg1138 3]

Hi all - just found this load of info on the upcoming R2 release......sorry if this is old news, I couldn't find it anywhere.....

Superman II - The Donner Cut will be released in a 3-Disc package, though one or two details need clarifying.....see below for these.....

Disc 1

Audio commentary by executive producer Ilya Salkind and producer Pierre Spengler

Theatrical trailer

Disc 2

'First Flight: The Fleischer Superman Series' featurette

8 Famous Studios Superman cartoons mastered from superior vault elements: 'Japoteurs', 'Showdown', 'Eleventh Hour', 'Destruction, Inc.', 'The Mummy Strikes', 'Jungle Drums', 'The Underground World' and 'Secret Agent'

'Superman 50th Anniversary' vintage TV special

'The Making Of Superman II' vintage TV special

Disc 3

All-new introduction from director Richard Donner

Audio commentary from Richard Donner and creative consultant Tom Mankiewicz

Additional scenes

'Superman II: Restoring The Vision' featurette

I suppose we can kinda assume from this that Disc 1 has the Theatrical version, and Disc 3 has the new cut.....?

Also a couple of details about the 9-Disc Box Set......Superman III will feature a commentary by Ilya Salkind and Pierre Spengler, additional scenes, theatrical trailer and "The Making of Superman III" (as fgar as I can gather this was made at thetime and is not a new doc). Superman IV to feature commentary by Mark Rosenthal, theatrical trailer and additonal scenes. The other 7 discs of the 9-Disc set are made up of the3-Disc Superman II and the new 4-Disc Superman - The Movie (which includes as an extra "Superman and theMole Men" starring George Reeves). Play.com has the 3-Disc Superman II and the 4-Disc Superman - The Movie both listed at £17.99 each, and the 9-Disc box set for £39.99.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This is the Donner version I'm most interested in!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Arriving 8 days before the R1 release... Nice.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Chris is blind to the flaws,

Huh?! Star Wars or Superman?

For SW, I didn't say that there wasn't flaws, but I prefer them over the theatrical versions in many ways, especially picture clairity - especially ESB. In fact, I'm not 100% happy with any version. I've always said that they need to take the best of every version and do it right just once. No SW release has been perfect and all have flaws.

Problem is, ask 5 different people and you'd have 5 different perfect edits!

If we're talking Superman 2, I think its a fine film, but I bet I'll also think the Donner version is superior when i see it - we'll see when it comes out.

-Chris

PS- If anything, one could say everything is flawd if you pick on it so much. Art is art and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Slightly off topic, but I was happy with the R1 Transformers: The Movie DVD, but I am THRILLED that I'll be getting an all new (never seen in any home video release) widescreen transfer/remaster with extras.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Another problem with this new version of Superman II is it will contain scenes and elements that Donner and crew would have most likely changed if the Salkinds had let him finish it.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

for example?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The time reversal at the end. I think it's likely that back then, Donner would have given that ending a complete overhaul so as not to be a retread of first film's ending.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

But if Donner had completely finished both films, wouldn't the first film have ended differently?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Perhaps, but I mean if he was allowed to finish the second one straight after the first one was released.

[Vaderbait1 1]

How much new footage will be in Superman II? How long was the Lester Cut and how long will the Donner cut be?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Superman II: DC will be approx 75% Donner footage iinm

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

The Lester ending is fine. You can't re-use the same ending to Superman I, as it would be the lamest of lame, and its one reason why I never liked Superman I as much anyway. Superman shouldn't have the ability to turn back time... it ruined the 1st film with its lame-ness.

This will be fun! The only thing more that I could have wished for was a never-before-heard JW score... but beggers can't be choosers I guess. 8O

[King Mark 3,630]

I used to like Superman 2 better than Superman 1

K.M.