I'm missing something: Why is Goldsmith great?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Goldsmith's synths were creatively utilized and often really fun, interesting and beautiful to listen to. He was also able to apply them very well as another instrument to the orchestra rather than overpowering the orchestra. Whereas Zimmer is often the same repetitive synth drone. Much of Zimmer's material is okay in the context of the film, but it's nothing I'd rush out and buy.

[Ollie 1,059]

I agree.

[bondo 33]

Speaking of electronics, I thoroughly despised them in Goldsmith's rejected TIMELINE. There were a few OK tracks, but the electronic wailing horn thing felt so out of place.

[Ollie 1,059]

At first they felt out of place but after a few listens they blend in nicely.

[bondo 33]

They work great in "Underground" and "Quick Action," but tracks like "After Him" are just....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jerry's synth for this score is deliciously goofy, it reminds me strongly of the kind of synth he used in the 80's then the more restrained stuff he used in the 90's and the 2000's.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

That horn growed on me.

Yes. Growed.

[Goldsmithfan 6]

. . . Because he had 'gold' in his name.

Remember that episode of Seinfeld? "That's gold Jerry, GOLD!"

No one ever had to tell Mr. Goldsmith Sr. that, because it was already in his blood.

Boo-yah!

[Admiral Holdo 16]

. . . Because he had 'gold' in his name.

Remember that episode of Seinfeld? "That's gold Jerry, GOLD!"

No one ever had to tell Mr. Goldsmith Sr. that, because it was already in his blood.

Boo-yah!

Goooold-smiiiith

He's the man... the man with the Midas touch!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I prefer oranges. They aren't as messy. I am only referring to fruits, I am not calling orchestrations of either composer sloppy.

you must eat some really nasty oranges, because real oranges, you know the ones from Florida, are much juicer than a apple.

[tony69 0]

Someone's going to shoot me, but Goldsmith used electronic stuff in his music all the time, so why had he criticised Zimmer?  Is it the composition style that differs between them, does Goldsmith just not like Zimmer's music, or what it is?

yes i am going to shoot you. *bang* but really, why does goldsmith criticize zimmer? Because goldsmith uses it creatively, for more sounds whereas zimmer uses it as an orchestral replacement. Thus the whole thing is "Why are you using FAKE cello sounds when you can get REAL cellos?" this is the ultimate insult to the musician. zimmer uses Fake sounds/samplers for almost everything so also he doesnt ever need to notate, which is why many people question his musical talents. i've heard he cannot notate AT ALL. See goldsmith's comments regarding the role of the current day orchestrator and how important they are. that apparently applies to zimmer.

Papillon is my favorite Goldsmith score still.  It's amazing through and through.  The spotting of it was also excellent.  It takes 30 minutes to hear his first cue and it's shocking with its trumpet dissonance in the opening bars.

hm... papillon? la confidential? are these universal? cuz the reason i'm gettng to see it is by going to their music headquarters. (maybe i can dig out that universal logo music ) but ya, i dont know what they have. they almost threw out the television scores but then people quit and all this beauracracy. now its baack so thats good. i dunno, i'm thinking of looking at planet of the apes. i dont know if they have it cuz i dont know the producing studios for any of these sort of things.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Planet of the Apes is Fox.

L.A. Confidential is Warner.

Not sure about Papillon.

[tpigeon 3]

I love the electronics in Lionheart, which is one of Jerry's finest efforts. It captures so many different kinds of emotions, and is one of his most thematically rich and symphonic scores. I really wish I could see the film sometime, though I doubt that will happen. Anyone who is a non-believe in Goldsmith should listen to this score though. It's more than outstanding.

Ted

[Hlao-roo 389]

I love the electronics in Lionheart, which is one of Jerry's finest efforts. It captures so many different kinds of emotions, and is one of his most thematically rich and symphonic scores. I really wish I could see the film sometime, though I doubt that will happen. Anyone who is a non-believe in Goldsmith should listen to this score though. It's more than outstanding.

Ted

I love this score as well, but my score for Goldsmith "non-believers" would be The Wind and the Lion, which manages to be highly accessible while preserving some of the complexity lost during his '90s "streamlining," as it's frequently called.

[David Coscina 3]

Goldsmith was great. Especially in the late '60s and '70s up to the early '80s. PAPILLON and FIRST BLOOD are amazing scores, easily on par with Williams' work but for different reasons. Goldsmith was more of a linear writer and composed line-by-line. Williams, probably because of his jazz background, composes music in vertical terms- harmony based- even though he's got a flair for melodies. The two composers were equally great but for different reasons. Goldsmith got under the skin of the films he was scoring more and took a more omniscient musical viewpoint while Williams' scores often react like an audience member. Neither approach is wrong and I would think based on Williams' slightly more popular status, that people like his style of film scoring. But Goldsmith was really comfortable in the modern idiom. I have always found Williams' use of atonality and dissonance forced and unnatural except for War of the worlds. And maybe part of CEOT3K.

I have a huge amount of respect for both composers. However, as bodies of work go, I will always take Williams as a personal favorite. Just more scores that I like. And his orchestrations are crazy! I just got the Superman signature score and I could spend the rest of my life trying to write something as beautiful and complex and not even get half way there. Williams is out modern day Mozart. Er, perhaps Beethoven (I don't dig Wolfgang that much).

[Ollie 1,059]

There are some composers that I can understand questioning their status but doing so for Goldsmith is mind boggling.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'm missing something: Why is Zimmer great?

[Ollie 1,059]

Now that's one that can be debated.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, we need more discussion about Zimmer here.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Yes, we need more discussion about Zimmer here.

if you read the above line in your best Christopher Walken voice its really funny.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That could apply to anything.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

That could apply to anything.

you made me think of a funny but very wrong joke.

Q. Whats the opposite of Christopher Reeves?

A. Christopher Walken.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ouch....

[Trent B 337]

Goldsmith's synths were creatively utilized and often really fun, interesting and beautiful to listen to. He was also able to apply them very well as another instrument to the orchestra rather than overpowering the orchestra. Whereas Zimmer is often the same repetitive synth drone. Much of Zimmer's material is okay in the context of the film, but it's nothing I'd rush out and buy.

Truer words have never been spoken before.