tony69 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 anyone find the violins horribly out of tune? after the bassoon intro. i'm talking about the scalar line that goes up right near the beginning. it's bugging me whenever i listen to the piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingPin 201 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I didn't find the strings so much out of tune. But there is a lot happening within the orchestra there which certainly creates some dissonance. The flute is playing chromatic upward figures (sounds like it's landing on non-chord notes), the horn moves up a half step (altering the expected chord), and the bass line ostinato is still tromping away. I also hear some dissonance in the chords in the lower register (it sounds like it might be in the violas, and I hear an augmented fourth above tonic - the ultimate dissonance according to music theory), which possibly give the illusion of bad intonation.Thanks for the thread. This track is one of my favorites, but I hadn't listened to it in quite a long time, so itwas a good excuse to go and hear it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodMusician 56 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I really think that's just meant to be a glissando of sorts... I'm not sure if it's meant to be a chromatic scale, a glissando, or a sliding chromatic scale.Past that, the first note isn't horribly out of tune, but they weren't very bright sounding. A moment later they do compensate though.Edit:I've also noticed that their isn't much brightness or resonance with this score. It seems almost dull. Rather bothersome if you ask me. But it does give it a different, untouched feel.Double Edit: lolI also found that they arn't quite in tune at about 1:44. The note isn't quite right...Like... out of 20 violins or so, 1 is slightly flat lol...gotta love real orchestras though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamtron 0 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 If I may branch out on this topic a little...does anyone know what key this piece is in? I have the piano sheet music for it and it's in an unmarked key (either C Major or A Minor) but it has lots of flats and so I suspect it is really in C Minor or another key. Also, it seems it is going through modulations or changing keys rapidly? Anyone know? There is a sample of the 1st page here:http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.a...VF0NSM50SWR05N6Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingPin 201 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I remember seeing somewhere that the piece starts in F minor, but I don't know what key it ends up in. I've only seen a short excerpt online. But it is not uncommon to leave a key signature blank if the piece goes through several key changes or if there are many accidentals afloat.Actually, having mentioned this, strings typically sound better in sharp keys than flat keys, which might contribute to the intonation issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamtron 0 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I remember seeing somewhere that the piece starts in F minor, but I don't know what key it ends up in. I've only seen a short excerpt online. But it is not uncommon to leave a key signature blank if the piece goes through several key changes or if there are many accidentals afloat.Actually, having mentioned this, strings typically sound better in sharp keys than flat keys, which might contribute to the intonation issue.Thanks KingPin. Now that I think about it, I recall reading somewhere that the melody is major played over minor chords or vice versa, so maybe that is part of the issue too. I guess it would take someone with perfect pitch to listen to it and tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodMusician 56 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Well, I've listened to it and I have pretty good pitch... and as a string player I can tell you that yes, sharp keys are easier to play in than flat keys...BUT...I was also told once that if you really look into it... apparently in sharp keys, your meant to play sharper, and in flat keys, flatter than pitch... It's what my viola instructor told me... he went to Juliard so I just kinda acepted it lol...ALthough with pitched instruments, I'd imagine it to be more difficult.As faras the strings, I still stick to what I said. It is, perhaps, a bit off but it's not really atrociously out of tune... But until I saw a score of it to where I could read what John Williams intent was... I couldn't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamtron 0 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Well, I've listened to it and I have pretty good pitch... and as a string player I can tell you that yes, sharp keys are easier to play in than flat keys...BUT...I was also told once that if you really look into it... apparently in sharp keys, your meant to play sharper, and in flat keys, flatter than pitch... It's what my viola instructor told me... he went to Juliard so I just kinda acepted it lol...ALthough with pitched instruments, I'd imagine it to be more difficult.As faras the strings, I still stick to what I said. It is, perhaps, a bit off but it's not really atrociously out of tune... But until I saw a score of it to where I could read what John Williams intent was... I couldn't say.Sorry GoodMusician, I didn't mean it that way (to question what you were saying)... I just meant in addition to what you said, if someone with perfect pitch could tell us what key it's in or what key changes occur. I'm am curious about that. I also read that it alternates between major and minor chords, so I'm wondering if that is true also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodMusician 56 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 someone with perfect pitch and more theory knowledge than I you mean :-punderstandable, I didn't mean it as a rebuttel eaither lol just a statement.I personally feel far more liberated when composing without concentrating on keysigntures. I never do. My comp. teacher hated it "You have to say what key it's in." and I'm like "I don't know. What does it sound like its in?" turned out to be... Fb modal minor or some shit I can't remember...I dunno, I guess what I'mg etting at is... does it matter what key? BUt I guess if it is major over minor, then yes, that owuld be something to explain some discepencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 BUT...I was also told once that if you really look into it... apparently in sharp keys, your meant to play sharper, and in flat keys, flatter than pitch... It's what my viola instructor told me... he went to Juliard so I just kinda acepted it lol...ALthough with pitched instruments, I'd imagine it to be more difficult..Yeah, there is a difference between sharp and flat notes (ie A# is a different pitch than Bb), but on instruments suck as clarinets and the such it is more difficult to play the differences. Brass instruments, such as the horn, have a much easier time of playing the differences, though it doesn't come as natural as it would on a string instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodMusician 56 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 but once you get it I would imagine it to be easy to play seeing as we simply place our fingers on the string lol... we need but know where to place it... :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,625 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 The piece sounds fine to me.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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