Popular Culture: When Williams transcended the movie.

[Quintus 5,399]

The Phantom Menace it has to be said, failed miserably to imprint itself upon the minds of todays moviegoers, unlike its predecessors. That movie is now all but forgotten amongst a huge abyss of other sci-fi fare. Nothing in that film has become the stuff of movie legend, apart from one small element: Duel of the Fates.

As bad as TPM was, the music was as terrific as ever, within the Star Wars realm. In fact one particular cue was so good that it stood above its movie counterpart and gained respect and enjoyment in its own right, both consciously and subconsciously, the latter being the greater manifestation of it.

People all over the world know that cue, and most love it, even though they might not actually know where it originates from. DOTF has become incidental to many tv promotions and more, serving as a soundtrack to a programs like The X Factor, in the UK at least. Now that is pop culture influence to be reckoned with: Big budget tv productions using a musical cue from a film that is famous for dying on its arse.

As much of a let down as TPM was for many people, its music still carry's weight, in the same way that Williams' older work does.

Thoughts?

[Ollie 1,059]

I think Williams approached this film with a great deal of enthusiasm but it still is nowhere near the original trilogy as far as the music goes.

Sadly it appears he lost interest after TPM, although that may have more to do with the overall quality of the films themselves.

Something happened between TPM and AOTC with the direction of the music. Gone is thematic approach that worked so well in the first 4 films and replaced with standard wall to wall underscoring.

[Quintus 5,399]

Sadly it appears he lost interest after TPM, although that may have more to do with the overall quality of the films themselves.

Something happened between TPM and AOTC with the direction of the music. Gone is thematic approach that worked so well in the first 4 films and replaced with standard wall to wall underscoring.

Agreed. Though Across The Stars is pure SW.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I Think EP II is the only with no themathic richness due to the unfinished scenes.

EPIII seems to have more finished footage for Williams...

But anyway, i dont think TPM has fallen so low as you say.

Its just that nowadays people are more like 'cool this new thing rules' with every new thing and forgot the previous cool thing.

For example, as famous of the LOTR movies got too, you dont see many casual people talk about them anymore, just the fans, as with SW, or the Matrix, etc...

[alfredo 0]

Along with Duel of the Fates, I think the character of Darth Maul has endured the cold shoulder turned on the film as well. But to comment on the music of Episode I, it's my personal favorite of the entire saga (and I say that with a lot of bias, I dont really expect anyone to agree with me. The OT music definitely is more skilled, I think its that I grew up with the PT.)

[tpigeon 3]

I'm joing Luke on this one. I am one of the rare defenders of The Phantom Menace, and all of the Star Wars prequel films. I have always thought that The Phantom Menace was a good film, and I am not a fanboy by any means. It is unfairly maligned, plain and simple. Like I said in a different thread, it's amazing how much expectation can impact one's perspective.

Ted

[Quintus 5,399]

Like I said in a different thread, it's amazing how much expectation can impact one's perspective.

Ted

Very true on a first viewing, but not after a few more. TPM was just a badly made film.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Nothing in that film has become the stuff of movie legend, apart from one small element: Duel of the Fates.

Aren't we forgetting something?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

AAAARRGGGHHH!

Get it out...get it out!

[SomeNewGuy 0]

Aww... he's kinda cute!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Sadly it appears he lost interest after TPM, although that may have more to do with the overall quality of the films themselves.

Something happened between TPM and AOTC with the direction of the music. Gone is thematic approach that worked so well in the first 4 films and replaced with standard wall to wall underscoring.

Agreed. Though Across The Stars is pure SW.

no its not, its mediocre compared to the best of the best.

Like I said in a different thread, it's amazing how much expectation can impact one's perspective.

Ted

Very true on a first viewing, but not after a few more. TPM was just a badly made film.

no its not, its not great, but its better than its sequel, which is a total piece of shit.

[Quintus 5,399]

Sadly it appears he lost interest after TPM, although that may have more to do with the overall quality of the films themselves.

Something happened between TPM and AOTC with the direction of the music. Gone is thematic approach that worked so well in the first 4 films and replaced with standard wall to wall underscoring.

Agreed. Though Across The Stars is pure SW.

no its not, its mediocre compared to the best of the best.

Disagree. Its retains the romantic sweep of the OT.

Like I said in a different thread, it's amazing how much expectation can impact one's perspective.  

Ted  

Very true on a first viewing, but not after a few more. TPM was just a badly made film.  

its better than its sequel, which is a total piece of shit.

Agreed. Absolutely totally and utterly agreed.

[igor 0]

Do we need another one of those threads? Don't you get tired of them? I won't even bother answering the question.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

Agreed. Though Across The Stars is pure SW.

This is the only thing I agree upon with any of you haters.

Your grandchildren are going to shit on themselves in laughter when they look into their voice operated cyber-almanacs and discover that Crash was movie of the year in 2005. LOL.

[Red 75]

I'm not so sure that DotF is known world-wide. The main theme or Imperial March maybe, but DotF?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

DOTF is a great piece, it truly transcends its source material

[Ollie 1,059]

TPM was the only one of the prequels that actually felt like a Star Wars movie.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

As far as the music is concerned, even with the OT, the only themes that have truly entered public consciousness (the type that everyone knows regardless of whether you've actually seen the movie or not) are the main theme, the imperial march and the Force theme. How do you top that? DoTF is an excellent piece but it isnt in the style of the Imperial March in the sense its doesnt announce the arrival of evil so to speak which imo is one of the reasons the Imp March is so popular. Across the Stars is lovely but we have so many love themes already embedded in pop culture its easy for it to be lost among them.

[Jeshopk 8]

Having just seen 2 concerts featuring music from the Prequels as well as the Original Trilogy, all the music exists very well beside each other when performed by the same people. The Erich Kunzel concert featured the most prequel music (including BOTH and Flag Parade). I think people find the Darth Maul/Kenobi/QuiGon scenes to be most memorable from TPM.

But pop culture isn't always the best judge of quality anyway. The best part of the open rehearsal was Williams' new arrangement from War of the Worlds with newly composed music.

[Ollie 1,059]

The best part of the open rehearsal was Williams' new arrangement from War of the Worlds with newly composed music.

Was it any good, worth releasing?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The Phantom Menace was not bad. It was better than episodes II and III. It was the last Star Wars movie for me .

[ridan 0]

TPM was OK

AOTC was complete and utter crap

ROTS was better than TPM, but still only OK.

The music from TPM was excellent, as it was originally intended.

The music from AOTC was OK - I'd blame Lucas for this more than Williams.

The music from ROTS was incredible.

[robthehand 3]

TPM was reasonable. It has a few points that make it worth watching once.

AOTC was truly dreadful. Christopher Lee was the only vaguely good thing about it.

Now that I've watched it a bit more, I can say that ROTS was even worse. AOTC had C. Lee, ROTS had nothing.

As for the music, TPM was really really great, but the other two feel a bit autopilot-ish to me now.

[skyy38 21]

Wall to wall scoring is getting out of hand nowadays.

On other 'boards when people gripe about how Episode 4"didn't have that much music" I just laugh my ass off. Quality is not predicated on Quantity-never has been,never will be.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

am I the only person who even remotely likes the prequels here?

[John Crichton 4]

am I the only person who even remotely likes the prequels here?

No. But I've long since stopped bothering to get buried in these endless repetative arguments.

[King Mark 3,631]

I like them,and RotS is in my top 3 SW scores.

K.M.

[Red 75]

am I the only person who even remotely likes the prequels here?

No, I also think that TPM is better than most make it out to be.

[SomeNewGuy 0]

am I the only person who even remotely likes the prequels here?

Nope. I can't even go so far as to say that any of them are good (RotS being my "favorite"), but I won't unconditionally bash them. Even AotC had highlights, no matter how few or far between.

[Neimoidian 14]

I don't know what is wrong with me, but I still love TPM (the movie... and the score as well). For me watching it for the first time was an experience similar to that which people had in 77, I think. Somehow most of its flaws don't bother me at all. I see only postitive things.

AotC had some really good sequences, but it also had couple of really bad too. The same goes with the score.

RotS for me is in the middle in terms of number of flaws. It is more gripping and emotionally captivating than most of the chapters (for me) but overall never as well crafted as OT and (I am sorry, I must say that) TPM. Concerning the score, I like what is on the album, but I was dissapointed that, for the first time, there are so few highlight cues in the movie that doesn't appear on the album.

[AI 0]

When didn't Williams transcend the movie?

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I like all the prequel films and all the prequel scores. I think they're all good and many parts are excellent. Especially the music. I consider all John Williams' work on the Star Wars prequels 5-star material. Some parts may be less interesting, but it's all very good indeed and better than what most other composers would have written.